Army Helicopters - 300’AGL, night, residential??

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Groundhog
Green Hills- Nashville

(2) - sounded like Kiowas… running offset tandem. Not more than 300’ AGL- no strobe- just (red & green?) navigational lights.


Running north to south over an exclusively dense residential area… where terrain rises as they go south. No signature or track of flightaware. Odd.

Thoughts?
 
Albany Tom said:
Bringing liquor into a dry county?
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hahahahahaaaa.. probably that.


It was so odd… the track they were on and how low they were.

We live incredibly close to John Tune, so I’m used to seeing Ft. Campbell flights passing over every now and then, but they are always 500’+ AGL - headed toward farm land.

Where these guys/gals were, there were zero outs, no place for an auto-rotation landing, and only houses to crash into. Low-level night ops make no sense like that.
 
There is no way I would be able to tell the difference, especially at night, between 300' and 500' AGL (or even 1000'), particularly with a relatively dimly lit pair of helos. Also, turning off anti collision lights is pretty standard for military aircraft in formation at night.
 
Not Army. There’s a police / state trooper flying low around your area right now. I flew right past him.
 
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^^ I guess it could be, but this was an offset tandem pair. I've never seen our law enforcement operate like that, and I don't know that we have (2) single turbine helicopters. I see Metro's Airbus track... doesn't match what I saw, and there's only 1. Most likely the 160th out of Ft. Campbell. Curiosity is crushing the cat.

AoA... I could tell because they were that close and I had known buildings for reference directly under them.
 
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WBI Flyer said:
^^ I guess it could be, but this was an offset tandem pair. I've never seen our law enforcement operate like that, and I don't know that we have (2) single turbine helicopters. I see Metro's Airbus track... doesn't match what I saw, and there's only 1. Most likely the 160th out of Ft. Campbell. Curiosity is crushing the cat.

AoA... I could tell because they were that close and I had known buildings for reference directly under them.
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Well they’re not Army KWs because they retired them years ago. The only thing remotely close for 160th would be little birds and I doubt they’re training in your area.

The call sign of the aircraft orbiting Green Hills and heading south was either Air One or Metro One. Can’t remember which. Their Altitude was around 1,000 AGl when I went by them.
 
Velocity173 said:
Well they’re not Army KWs because they retired them years ago. The only thing remotely close for 160th would be little birds and I doubt they’re training in your area.

The call sign of the aircraft orbiting Green Hills and heading south was either Air One or Metro One. Can’t remember which. Their Altitude was around 1,000 AGl when I went by them.
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copy that on the Kiowas. haha..

Turns out, metro police does have (2) helicopters. According to Flightaware, both metro police helicopters show flights tonight, but neither were in the air at 8:30pm CST - and they are not
shown as having been in the air at the same
time. The only MPD flight south of downtown was N849NP and that flight track was East of I-65, so not over Green Hills.

Only other rotor flights I can find out of Tune near that time was R020700 which flew direct from Tune to Ft. Campbell.


oh well.
 
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WBI Flyer said:
copy that on the Kiowas. haha..

Turns out, metro police does have (2) helicopters. According to Flightaware, both metro police helicopters show flights tonight, but neither were in the air at 8:30pm CST - and they are not
shown as having been in the air at the same
time. The only MPD flight south of downtown was N849NP and that flight track was East of I-65, so not over Green Hills.

Only other rotor flights I can find out of Tune near that time was R020700 which flew direct from Tune to Ft. Campbell.


oh well.
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I’m showing Metro with about seven helicopters including three Kiowas.

It’s possible 160th was in the area but if doing urban training it’s usually announced ahead of time. Also if they were flying “tandem” or multi ship with NVDs, most likely they’ll either be IR nav lights or completely blacked out.
 
We get lowflying unlit blackhawks periodically. My wife found the rotorwash blew over her sunflowers. Of course, they were planted next to the runway. They like coming over here and doing their NVG work because it's dark.

I've seen them shoot down our runway at 30 feet before and a three ship doing a slightly higher overflight.
 
During the Cold War Germany where the whole country was considered a maneuver area by the US Army it was allowed but not encouraged…problematic with to much ambient light for 1st Gen goggles and stupid unaided…160th maybe but they publish and make everyone aware…but not KW’s. more than likely police.
 
Their just doing pilot stuff. Always surprises me when people ask why an aircraft is doing this or that.
 
Skymac said:
Their just doing pilot stuff. Always surprises me when people ask why an aircraft is doing this or that.
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I had a person contact our airport the other day saying they noticed all the contrails overhead, why were there so many planes flying? Not sure they bought my answer that they are always there.
 
WBI Flyer said:
^^ I guess it could be, but this was an offset tandem pair. I've never seen our law enforcement operate like that, and I don't know that we have (2) single turbine helicopters. I see Metro's Airbus track... doesn't match what I saw, and there's only 1. Most likely the 160th out of Ft. Campbell. Curiosity is crushing the cat.

AoA... I could tell because they were that close and I had known buildings for reference directly under them.
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I think you're on to something with your theory... Only thing I'm surprised by is that trail wasn't running an overt anti-smash. They do low level routes all over Middle TN training to hit that time on target using basic nav, old school time, distance, and heading, no GPS. This is getting more and more important as we are going to have to expect GPS denied environments in the next big one.

Back in the day, we'd do a hit on the old Tennessee State Prison. That was cool, as the confined areas were challenging, but flying down Interstate 24 with LB's in tow at 60 knots was not...
 
Flymy47 said:
I think you're on to something with your theory... Only thing I'm surprised by is that trail wasn't running an overt anti-smash. They do low level routes all over Middle TN training to hit that time on target using basic nav, old school time, distance, and heading, no GPS. This is getting more and more important as we are going to have to expect GPS denied environments in the next big one.

Back in the day, we'd do a hit on the old Tennessee State Prison. That was cool, as the confined areas were challenging, but flying down Interstate 24 with LB's in tow at 60 knots was not...
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Ugh. And I thought 80 kts with KW escort was bad. :(
 
Don't know about Army - we operated our C130s at 300' AGL, on published routes, of course.
 
If they were Army, they’d have no min altitude in this case. They’re not on a published route and not over a noise sensitive area (wildlife/national park). They’re supposed to “fly neighborly” but that’s a bit subjective. If I were planning a XC at night, I definitely wouldn’t plan it at 300 over a densely populated area…unless the objective was located in it.

Exterior lights aren’t standardized either. There’s position lights and anti collision but both can be modified by local commanders for things like NVD training. Typically for a flight they’ll use position lights and formation lights on and like stated above, only trail will have anti collision on. But, if it’s an actual urban training op and it’s 160th, they’ll usually get permission for covert (IR) lighting or in some cases blacked out.

 
No hard altitude. Just don’t clip an immovable object . ;)

 
And we believe homeland security abides by military flight rules? (Chuckle)….riiiiight.

Mother Marine Corps was some of the most regimented flying I’ve ever done. 300’ agl over populated areas? Pshaw.

LASD had a “flotilla” of nearly 40 helicopters. You think regular LE flies 300’agl in formation? Not typically…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Coordinating altitude with the AF operationally for the Army during my time was 200ft…Going above that was just being nice.
 
Warlock said:
Coordinating altitude with the AF operationally for the Army during my time was 200ft…Going above that was just being nice.
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Those days are long gone. Coordinating altitude in Afghanistan when I was there was 3,000 ft. Min altitude was 500 ft.
 
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