approach vs. center for ff?

[SbestCFII]

Another great use of an IFR publication. On the enroute charts look for the nearest ARTCC communications box - rectangular "postage stamp" symbol with the light blue hatched border with the center name and frequencies inside.

 

[Doggtyred]

My experience has been:

If in an approach control's territory but not at towered field, I get a local code (02xx).. Once I leave the approach area for center, I get told squawk 1200 and told to call up someone else.

If im leaving a towered airport (inside an approach control or not) when calling up ground I can request FF and they will give me a "center" code and tower hands me to approach, and approach hands me off to center, seamlessly.

If departing an untowered field in a center-controlled area, once airborne I can be given a "center" code that will carry me to my destination or until I cancel FF...

 

[SkyDog58]

Greetings! The airplane is actually located at KMIW.... and the AFD gives Waterloo approach, but I do see Cedar Rapids is also close by. I suppose either could work. I'll just ask someone at the FBO what the best procedure is. I'll be flying it direct MSN with a quick stop at LNR. It's a 1980 Archer. I'm quite excited

There's a nice little diner at LNR called Picadilly Lilly. Of course, if you are from MSN, you probably know that. And speaking of MSN, I need to hit the Jet Room again soon.

 

[flyingron]

My experience has been:

If in an approach control's territory but not at towered field, I get a local code (02xx).. Once I leave the approach area for center, I get told squawk 1200 and told to call up someone else.

If im leaving a towered airport (inside an approach control or not) when calling up ground I can request FF and they will give me a "center" code and tower hands me to approach, and approach hands me off to center, seamlessly.

If departing an untowered field in a center-controlled area, once airborne I can be given a "center" code that will carry me to my destination or until I cancel FF...

Far from universal. Around here, except at the class C or B primary airports, ground control will give VFRs NOTHING. You can ask, but the TRACON is obstinate and will not give the towers squawks they can use for VFRs. At least the tower will give you an immediate frequency change (and the correct frequency to call) so you can.

Whether approach grabs a local squawk or spends a minute to enter a flight plan for you to get one that's good for a longer distance, depends on their mood (and level of traffic). Even on a local code you'll often get a new frequency (and NOT told to squawk VFR) even if the radar services are terminated (got ****ed off at the wife for punching the VFR button when the controller did that).

 

[Velocity173]

Man, sounds like some of you are in areas with some lazy controllers. In the SE, I can't remember a time where I wasn't provided FF to my destination. Within equipment limitations of course. Doesn't matter if I'm on the ground or in the air, I get put into the system.

Just flew to ECG to visit a Coast Guard friend the other day and got continuous service the whole way.

 

[nddons]

There's a nice little diner at LNR called Picadilly Lilly. Of course, if you are from MSN, you probably know that. And speaking of MSN, I need to hit the Jet Room again soon.

Yummy! I try to get to the Jet Room once a month, but need to hit LNR soon too.

 

[brian109]

 

[midlifeflyer]

Man, sounds like some of you are in areas with some lazy controllers. In the SE, I can't remember a time where I wasn't provided FF to my destination. Within equipment limitations of course. Doesn't matter if I'm on the ground or in the air, I get put into the system.

Obviously you have not had to request FF from Miami Center on the right (wrong) day. On two completely different occasions, more than a year apart, I have heard them refuse it due to workload.

And the fact that some towered airports don't give squawks is primarily due to the way TRACON and its towers choose to deal with each other, not controller laziness (unless, of course you prefer to think of the controllers in one of the countries busiest GA airports "lazy").

 

[PeeGee]

Obviously have not had to request FF from Miami Center on the right (wrong) day. On two completely different occasions, more than a year apart, I have heard them refuse it due to workload.

ZSE has shot me down before, which is hilarious because lets face it, ZSE is like the slowest center there is in the lower 48.

 

[PeeGee]

Man, sounds like some of you are in areas with some lazy controllers. In the SE, I can't remember a time where I wasn't provided FF to my destination. Within equipment limitations of course. Doesn't matter if I'm on the ground or in the air, I get put into the system.

Just flew to ECG to visit a Coast Guard friend the other day and got continuous service the whole way.

VFR FF takes next to zero work from the controller. One FP message and a casual glance now and again, I guess unless you're a frequency hog.

 

[Velocity173]

Obviously you have not had to request FF from Miami Center on the right (wrong) day. On two completely different occasions, more than a year apart, I have heard them refuse it due to workload.

And the fact that some towered airports don't give squawks is primarily due to the way TRACON and its towers choose to deal with each other, not controller laziness (unless, of course you prefer to think of the controllers in one of the countries busiest GA airports "lazy").

Just commenting on Ron's post about "mood." Apparently he's in an area where it's hit or miss depending on the controller.

I was a controller. My brother is a current controller. There ARE lazy controllers out there. My brother could go on for hours about that. That and numerous other gripes about how the FAA runs the ATC system.

It's not hard to assign an NAS code and provide FF from one facility to the other. It's not an equipment issue. If they're a TRACON they have a FDIO computer, it takes all of maybe 10 secs to type it in.

Obviously workload and equipment capabilities (radar coverage) have something to do with it, but having flown around ATL for over 20 yrs, I can't remember the last time I was denied. Maybe I just know how to talk the talk.

 

[MAKG1]

Man, sounds like some of you are in areas with some lazy controllers. In the SE, I can't remember a time where I wasn't provided FF to my destination. Within equipment limitations of course. Doesn't matter if I'm on the ground or in the air, I get put into the system.

Just flew to ECG to visit a Coast Guard friend the other day and got continuous service the whole way.

S*** happens.

I've been denied flight following twice locally for workload. It's not common, but it happens.

One was real obvious on frequency. You could hear an unbroken stream of arriving airliners checking in. The other wasn't obvious at all until afterward, but it was fallout from the SFO Asiana crash that had happened less than 30 minutes earlier. Though I couldn't hear it on that particular frequency, there must have been quite a lot of of diversion activity due to the unexpected closure of SFO.

 

[Henning]

Obviously you have not had to request FF from Miami Center on the right (wrong) day. On two completely different occasions, more than a year apart, I have heard them refuse it due to workload.

And the fact that some towered airports don't give squawks is primarily due to the way TRACON and its towers choose to deal with each other, not controller laziness (unless, of course you prefer to think of the controllers in one of the countries busiest GA airports "lazy").

Sometimes it is though. At Hayward I was denied a squawk on the ground (where I had received them many times prior), all I said in response was "Seriously? You can't get me a squawk?" and then proceeded to get my taxi clearance. By the time I made the run up pad ground called me back with a squawk.

 

[flyingron]

It's not laziness (at least not on the part of the tower controllers), it's that the approach guys won't play with them nicely (don't know if it is laziness or just orneryness of the approach controllers).

 

[MarkZ]

VFR FF takes next to zero work from the controller. One FP message and a casual glance now and again, I guess unless you're a frequency hog.

We provide the same radar services we do to IFR aircraft. We don't apply the same separation minima.

Just commenting on Ron's post about "mood." Apparently he's in an area where it's hit or miss depending on the controller.



I was a controller. My brother is a current controller. There ARE lazy controllers out there. My brother could go on for hours about that. That and numerous other gripes about how the FAA runs the ATC system.

A common misconception. In the terminal environment, you may call me up for flight following. I'm not busy. The controller working the airspace your aircraft will eventually traverse is however inundated. Rather than have you cancel and attempt to request on the busy frequency, I'll deny you up front to save my colleague the trouble.

Of course, the pilot on the other end may perceive me to be lazy or in a bad mood, but i can't do anything about that.

 

[MarkZ]

No, not really. I think most VFR pilots greatly overestimate the services they're getting on VFR flight following. Despite the recent recurrent training emphasis on vectoring VFR airplanes if needed in controlled airspace, I've still had controllers clear IFR traffic nose to nose on the same airway right through me.

Yeah, it's that simple. That's why we sometimes have to deny services. When we can't provide traffic advisories and safety alerts to you, we terminate your services.

Can you confirm that the controller who cleared an IFR aircraft "through you" did not inform the IFR aircraft of you? Can you confirm that the IFR aircraft never saw you? Did you not receive a traffic advisory? Did a resolution advisory or an evasive maneuver result?

If your answer was yes, did you call the watch supervisor of the facility in question?

 

[MarkZ]

No, it's not that simple.
And yes, since I work in the facility that it happened, we had a talk about it when I returned to work... No phonecall needed, thanks.

Then you are doing it wrong...

 

[Velocity173]

This is turning into a "Stuck Mic." Only thing missing is Steven.

 

[MAKG1]

It's not laziness (at least not on the part of the tower controllers), it's that the approach guys won't play with them nicely (don't know if it is laziness or just orneryness of the approach controllers).

At Hayward, not being able to get a squawk on the ground is a significant operational issue. There is a Class C surface area barely off the DER, and an overhead conga line sufficient to lower the TPA to 600 feet.

 

[Henning]

At Hayward, not being able to get a squawk on the ground is a significant operational issue. There is a Class C surface area barely off the DER, and an overhead conga line sufficient to lower the TPA to 600 feet.

Yeah, I don't know if he was responding to me or not, but taking off out of there without a squawk and needing to transition Oakland's airspace turns into a CF on a busy frequency quickly which is why I always got it on the ground there. I had never had an issue getting one prior and had based there for nearly 2 years.

 

[Jmcmanna]

I've noticed that more that 50% of the time I put in a flight plan, the pilot terminates flight following on their own. I notice this more often when a pilot gets FF down the Chicago lakeshore then cancels when I try to hand them off to the Chicago Center freq working the ORD arrivals they're climbing through.

I worked N1234M this morning and am sorry for the delay in the clearance through the class B....I was taking the position when you said you were doing a 360 to get above the class B ...my first transmission when I took the position was a class B clearance and I appreciate the handoff to ZAU as you were climbing east with the MDW departures at the same time.