approach vs. center for ff?

[GeorgeC]

While I was on ff for the outbound leg of a recent flight, I wrote down all of the approach frequencies I was issued along the way. I flew the return leg at a higher altitude, and when I dialed up what I thought was the appropriate approach frequency to re-establish ff, they told me to contact center due to my higher altitude.

Is there a rule of thumb, like, above a certain altitude, contact center instead of approach? Or should I just call approach and get the handoff?

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

Unless you have the sectors and altitudes memorized, it's pointless. Even then, you have to know when they're going to combine sectors due to decreased traffic flow.

Do your best to call the right person, but don't get bent up over it if they tell you to talk to someone else.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Unless you have the sectors and altitudes memorized, it's pointless. Even then, you have to know when they're going to combine sectors due to decreased traffic flow.

Do your best to call the right person, but don't get bent up over it if they tell you to talk to someone else.

This. They sometimes change depending on time of day/amount of traffic.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

If you're looking for a rule of thumb - Most class C approach control facilities top out at 10,000 feet. There's a noticeable difference when IFR above 10K vs. at or below 10K.

If you want FF, it's easiest to check the A/FD or equivalent for the facility and frequency that handles approach and departure services for the airport you're departing, and call them. They'll probably hand you off to the appropriate center if you climb out of their airspace.

 

[kgruber]

And they change depending on which way the wind is blowing.

 

[PeeGee]

Unless you have the sectors and altitudes memorized, it's pointless. Even then, you have to know when they're going to combine sectors due to decreased traffic flow.

Do your best to call the right person, but don't get bent up over it if they tell you to talk to someone else.

Low altitude sectors combine but usually use the same frequencies due to reception distance. They just monitor them all and switch transmitter sites or just light them all up.
High and ultra high sectors will use the freq of the sector they're combined at. USUALLY.
Per the 7110.65 even combined the frequency has to be monitored. Worst case you call a couple times until they see which freq you're on and give you the right one.

 

[PeeGee]

Anyway if you call the wrong one once they tag you up they'll just hand you off or point you out and work you

 

[fiveoboy01]

This is similar to a question I was going to post.

Normally, I blast off from MSN or 6P3, the former I get departure handed off from the tower, and the latter I just call MSN approach shortly after takeoff. I'm not really used to cold calling a facility after takeoff.. 6P3 is really close to MSN so I'll bust the lower shelf(provided I continue to climb) if I don't contact them in a timely manner.

I will be flying my "new" plane back from KMIW to MSN on Tuesday and if I look at Foreflight, it shows Chicago Center, Chicago Center Departure, and Waterloo Approach. I'm scratching my head figuring out which I should call, but since it's just a VFR flight at a lower altitude I assume it would be Waterloo approach.

No set in stone way to determine who to call I guess....?

 

[Gucci Pilot]

Do your best to call the right person, but don't get bent up over it if they tell you to talk to someone else.

This x 3!

The low enroute charts can give you a general idea of the center frequency for a general area, but usually if you call up a frequency and it's the wrong one, the controller will just ask where you are and give you the appropriate frequency to contact. There are times I fly the exact same route and due to unknown reasons sometimes some center frequencies aren't used on the same route I took the day before. Like Kirk said, don't get discouraged if they give you a different frequency. ATC is there to help/assist you.

I will be flying my "new" plane back from KMIW to MSN on Tuesday and if I look at Foreflight, it shows Chicago Center, Chicago Center Departure, and Waterloo Approach. I'm scratching my head figuring out which I should call, but since it's just a VFR flight at a lower altitude I assume it would be Waterloo approach.

No set in stone way to determine who to call I guess....?

Looking at the A/FD it says:

WATERLOO APP/DEP CON 120.9 (1200–0200Z‡)
CHICAGO CENTER APP/DEP CON 127.05 (0200–1200Z‡)

Given the time you plan to take-off I would try one of those frequencies.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

I prefer to call centers instead of approaches, more likely get a squawk code that shows up in flightaware


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[rocketflyer84]

I prefer to call centers instead of approaches, more likely get a squawk code that shows up in flightaware

The Flightaware thing is more about if you're going to cross between facilities or not. If you're just putzing around in a small area that only requires handing off between people in the same building they usually just give out a local code. If they need to hand you off to someone in another building they need to properly put you into the "system" so they can beam your details off to some other location during that handoff. If they're too busy to set you up properly they may just dump you and tell you to call the next facility and setup fresh. Flightaware doesn't see the local traffic.

I suppose Center may be somewhat more inclined to do the latter given that they usually end up handing off most of their traffic to another facility at some point.

 

[flyingron]

I actually find the nearest airport with an instrument approach and look up what frequency is listed there. That nearly ALWAYS works. You can call the nearest center (from the IFR chart or your GPS database). They'll be happy to give you the right frequency for your location/altitude but around here on the East Coast, it's 80% of the time some approach control.

Even IFR enroute going west, I bounce between centers and approach controls at my typical altitudes.

 

[bobmrg]

This is similar to a question I was going to post.

Normally, I blast off from MSN or 6P3, the former I get departure handed off from the tower, and the latter I just call MSN approach shortly after takeoff. I'm not really used to cold calling a facility after takeoff.. 6P3 is really close to MSN so I'll bust the lower shelf(provided I continue to climb) if I don't contact them in a timely manner.

I will be flying my "new" plane back from KMIW to MSN on Tuesday and if I look at Foreflight, it shows Chicago Center, Chicago Center Departure, and Waterloo Approach. I'm scratching my head figuring out which I should call, but since it's just a VFR flight at a lower altitude I assume it would be Waterloo approach.

No set in stone way to determine who to call I guess....?

You can be sure that the two facilities were communicating via landline or other electronic means, and the "receiving" controller had accepted you as a handoff before you made your "cold call."

Bob Gardner

 

[airdale]

I prefer to call centers instead of approaches, more likely get a squawk code that shows up in flightaware.

Do you mean that you wait until you are in Center airspace? AFIK if you are not in their airspace Center will just tell you to call whoever owns the airspace you're in.

I don't know about Flightaware, but sometimes when I'm traveling and I I start FF with an Approach controller I will be given a local squawk (0xxx) prior to his getting a cross-country squawk (in our area usually 4xxx) for me. Once in a very great while I will have to remind the controller that I need a cross-country squawk before I leave his airspace/before he can ship me to the next guy. I don't think local squawks get into Flightaware.

 

[Velocity173]

Like Ron above, generally I look at an approach plate for the freq in the area I'm at. Could be center, could be approach.

Not all approach facilities butt up against one another. Center fills in the gaps. Not all centers start above 10,000 ft either. Unless you've memorized the sectors, you'll never know how high to call center. If you're flying late, a lot of times center will have the airspace and not approach.

So yeah, no real hard and fast rule on who to call.

 

[BillTIZ]

If you're looking for a rule of thumb - Most class C approach control facilities top out at 10,000 feet. There's a noticeable difference when IFR above 10K vs. at or below 10K.

If you want FF, it's easiest to check the A/FD or equivalent for the facility and frequency that handles approach and departure services for the airport you're departing, and call them. They'll probably hand you off to the appropriate center if you climb out of their airspace.

Even though the local Class B tops out at 10,000MSL, the local approach owns to 23,000 (FL230).

It just depends where you are.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

Here is a map depicting the lateral boundaries of all the various ARTCC's throughout the country. There are no vertical limits, but it gives you an idea.

 

[PeeGee]

that's not at all helpful in any manner.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

that's not at all helpful in any manner.

 

[Palmpilot]

Here is a map depicting the lateral boundaries of all the various ARTCC's throughout the country. There are no vertical limits, but it gives you an idea.

Thanks - very helpful!

 

[midlifeflyer]

that's not at all helpful in any manner.

I guess a Center boundary map (if that's what it is; for some reason I can't see it) is somewhat helpful in determining which Center to call if one is calling Center but I guess you are correct if the question is whether to call Center ir TRACON. The latter varies a lot with geography and altitude.

At lower altitudes, the best guide is probably the AFD or other approach frequency information (such as the frequency tab in a EFB app). If near an airport that has a TRACON approach frequency, that's probably the best bet for FF. Same if the airport's approach frequency is a Center.

But, as others pointed out, it is not a big deal to have the correct one. The only downside of being "wrong" is being advised by ATC to call someone else.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

I get the ATC freq from my Radio which is connected to GPS, I will pick up FF on the ground if at an airport with clearance freq



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[Cpt_Kirk]

The map really wasn't meant to show who to call and where. It seemed like people had some confusuion between TRACON's and ARTCC's coverage areas.

Anyway, the picture isn't showing up anymore and I think I'll just leave it that way.

 

[Henning]

This is similar to a question I was going to post.

Normally, I blast off from MSN or 6P3, the former I get departure handed off from the tower, and the latter I just call MSN approach shortly after takeoff. I'm not really used to cold calling a facility after takeoff.. 6P3 is really close to MSN so I'll bust the lower shelf(provided I continue to climb) if I don't contact them in a timely manner.

I will be flying my "new" plane back from KMIW to MSN on Tuesday and if I look at Foreflight, it shows Chicago Center, Chicago Center Departure, and Waterloo Approach. I'm scratching my head figuring out which I should call, but since it's just a VFR flight at a lower altitude I assume it would be Waterloo approach.

No set in stone way to determine who to call I guess....?

Nope, not really, but it's irrelevant, you can call any of them; if they want, they will give you a different frequency. You don't really need concern yourself with it. As long as you have a frequency that will talk to someone in the area, you've got what you need. Normally you aren't talking to Center below 10,000' but that isn't set in stone either.

 

[Dr. O]

Wow, way too complicated for me to understand
Going XC I just call the nearest frequency shown on the chart
If I am filed I simply ask for my flight plan to be activated (on the ground or airborne, depending) and wait to be told what to do
If I am VFR I just ask for a squawk/permission to enter their airspace
From that point on I am handed around like a large blunt at a hollywood party
Works for me every time and has since the 60's

For the OP, and as the controllers on here have pointed out, pick the frequency on the chart (or AFD) that seems logical. If they are not controlling your airspace they will hand you off to the correct frequency.
That frequency can change on a moments notice. Many a time I have been told to change frequency and have the same controller come back to me on the new frequency I don't even wonder about it (shrug) not my problem
I also get voice changes on the same frequency Again, not my problem
Just talk to someone and it will get worked out

 

[Henning]

I get the ATC freq from my Radio which is connected to GPS, I will pick up FF on the ground if at an airport with clearance freq



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Even when using the push button link through on the 430w, there was a good chance that call would lead to "Call Xxx approach on xxx.xx from there for services." which is just fine too. So long as you can talk to someone, it'll get squared away in short order.

 

[Palmpilot]

The map really wasn't meant to show who to call and where. It seemed like people had some confusuion between TRACON's and ARTCC's coverage areas.

Anyway, the picture isn't showing up anymore and I think I'll just leave it that way.

Although it didn't directly answer the OP's question, it did address a related question, which is 'once I have decided to call Center, which one do I call?' Lucky for me, I saved it to my hard disk.

 

[fiveoboy01]

Is there a similar map which shows locations and boundaries of approach facilities?

 

[flyingron]

No, and the provided map is useless because it doesn't tell you what frequencies are. Do you think ZTL has only one frequency or that you can reach them on any random frequency they do employ anywhere in their service area?

 

[fiveoboy01]

Helpful as the guy in post 18

 

[nddons]

This is similar to a question I was going to post.



Normally, I blast off from MSN or 6P3, the former I get departure handed off from the tower, and the latter I just call MSN approach shortly after takeoff. I'm not really used to cold calling a facility after takeoff.. 6P3 is really close to MSN so I'll bust the lower shelf(provided I continue to climb) if I don't contact them in a timely manner.



I will be flying my "new" plane back from KMIW to MSN on Tuesday and if I look at Foreflight, it shows Chicago Center, Chicago Center Departure, and Waterloo Approach. I'm scratching my head figuring out which I should call, but since it's just a VFR flight at a lower altitude I assume it would be Waterloo approach.



No set in stone way to determine who to call I guess....?

Greetings, neighbor. Congrats on your purchase. What kind of plane are you getting?

As for your question, isn't Waterloo a class D airport? I'm surprised they have an approach frequency, but obviously they do.

However, I wonder if you'd be better off calling Cedar Rapids approach for FF. I presume they would have their own radar and could probably see you from farther away than Waterloo.

However, I'm not a controller, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[fiveoboy01]

Greetings! The airplane is actually located at KMIW.... and the AFD gives Waterloo approach, but I do see Cedar Rapids is also close by. I suppose either could work. I'll just ask someone at the FBO what the best procedure is. I'll be flying it direct MSN with a quick stop at LNR. It's a 1980 Archer. I'm quite excited

 

[gms5002]

Greetings! The airplane is actually located at KMIW.... and the AFD gives Waterloo approach, but I do see Cedar Rapids is also close by. I suppose either could work. I'll just ask someone at the FBO what the best procedure is. I'll be flying it direct MSN with a quick stop at LNR. It's a 1980 Archer. I'm quite excited

Since they are listing the app/dep frequency also as clearance delivery you might try given them a call from the ground. They'll probably be able to set you up and give you a code before you depart. Or once airborne, use waterloo approach unless it's after hours...in which case call chicago as noted in the AF/D. Enjoy the flight!

 

[midlifeflyer]

No, and the provided map is useless because it doesn't tell you what frequencies are. Do you think ZTL has only one frequency or that you can reach them on any random frequency they do employ anywhere in their service area?

Kind of a semi-related side comment (I agree with you if all the map shows is the overall Center airspace with no frequency information):

Those individual Center frequencies and their general areas appear on the IFR en route charts. And of course, IFR approach charts will have geopgraphic hints for the appropriate TRACON or Center frequency as applicable.

When mentioned, I used to think it was a relatively useless comment to make for VFR pilots looking for Flight Following. But with most (all?) EFB including them as part of their basic subscriptions, maybe those references are not quite as useless as they used to be.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

No, and the provided map is useless because it doesn't tell you what frequencies are. Do you think ZTL has only one frequency or that you can reach them on any random frequency they do employ anywhere in their service area?

Oh good lord, that was not the point of the map.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Oh good lord, that was not the point of the map.

Since we're now at the post-30 posts point where discussion generally devolves anyway, and since I never saw the one alluded to was it kind of like this one?

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

Yes, similar to that one.

In fact, Richard Palm linked the exact picture to post #27.

 

[PeeGee]

I guess a Center boundary map (if that's what it is; for some reason I can't see it) is somewhat helpful in determining which Center to call if one is calling Center but I guess you are correct if the question is whether to call Center ir TRACON. The latter varies a lot with geography and altitude.

At lower altitudes, the best guide is probably the AFD or other approach frequency information (such as the frequency tab in a EFB app). If near an airport that has a TRACON approach frequency, that's probably the best bet for FF. Same if the airport's approach frequency is a Center.

But, as others pointed out, it is not a big deal to have the correct one. The only downside of being "wrong" is being advised by ATC to call someone else.

correct, it was.

It really isn't helpful, so it tells me to pick one of 15 sectors. Yippee.
Even if you called an adjacent center, again, once tagged up they'll just send you to the right place. And really, how often are you so close to a center boundary that will help? Or are people that unaware of their location they can't remember which center they're under?

This is another one of these topics I do not understand the vexing over, aside from the love folks have around here of seeing their own words on the page in front of them.

I'm with you, afd is the way to go. The postage stamp is unreliable at best. It's gotten MUCH easier with an EFB.

 

[petrolero]

When I request FF, after the initial contact, I say something like "Skylane 123AB Requests flight following to my destination, KTLA (City, State)" then I read off my data strip stuff, type/equip, alt, cruise, route or whatever.

When I make my request that way I've almost always been entered into the system rather than receiving a local code.

If they put me in the system, I'll know because they will hand me off to ARTCC instead of dropping me. If they do give me a local code and drop me, they always tell me the freq to call for further FF. I call them and say the same stuff as above.

 

[midlifeflyer]

When I request FF, after the initial contact, I say something like "Skylane 123AB Requests flight following to my destination, KTLA (City, State)" then I read off my data strip stuff, type/equip, alt, cruise, route or whatever.

When I make my request that way I've almost always been entered into the system rather than receiving a local code.

If they put me in the system, I'll know because they will hand me off to ARTCC instead of dropping me. If they do give me a local code and drop me, they always tell me the freq to call for further FF. I call them and say the same stuff as above.

Gotta say you give them a lot more information for FF that I ever have. I stop with the statement I bolded, but include where I am At the time.