AOPA Renewal??

Everskyward said:
Ok I looked it up and added up the hours. In six months it flew approximately 195 hours which is 390/year. That's well within what is considered reasonable usage for a corporate jet.
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If the (corporate jet) is used for (corporate business) then I am on board with its use.... Someone with a flightaware subscription can view the activity and sync those trips with an (official) AOPA function. I am betting the majority are to places like Vail for Christmas, or some place warm during the winter, or Pebble beach for some golf, ETC..... Then it not a (corporate) tool,.... it's a benny... and that would shift his compensation package ALOT higher...

Anyone care to post the destinations of N4GA for the last year or so ??
 
N801BH said:
Anyone care to post the destinations of N4GA for the last year or so ??
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You can look at them in FlightAware. I can see six months worth and there are not many, or any, resorts included. I don't see any trips to Eagle or Aspen... or even Jackson Hole.
 
Everskyward said:
You can look at them in FlightAware. I can see six months worth and there are not many, or any, resorts included. I don't see any trips to Eagle or Aspen... or even Jackson Hole.
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..

Thanks Mari..... Flightaware only lets me see the last 4 flights... And I ain't paying to see the trip history of a plane I help pay for......

And to set the record straight.. I am a member, been one for 32 years... I would let it lapse but I am the AOPA Airport Support Network Volunteer for Jackson Hole, so to stay engaged for the interest of GA in general and AOPA in particular, I need to stay a paying member...

I still don't like the direction home office is headed though..:nonod:
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
I am just a poor country boy from Kansas and I might not understand this high finance and lobby business but it seems to me:

Yes, particularly if you want to represent my aviation interests. I want to see him fly a classic bird as often as possible. But even if he just used it under 400 miles radius of aopa, and even if only on pure VFR flights it would warm my heart.

First their office a car ride from down town DC. That is where all the lobbying should be done. Every senator, representative and other lobbiest are there at least 10% of of the time(hard working sob's as they are).

So I question the need to fly from the East coast to California or Las Vegas, NV type trips 150 times a year.

Second, $40 X 400,000 comes to $18 million basic membership fees. 390 hrs of jet time flown a year at $4k per hour (including flight crews and such) works out to about 10% of total membership revenues. Seems excessive to me.

Third, where are the funds from Cessna, Beechcraft, Piper, Cirrus and the rest? OK they support the big guys toy store associations but not aopa then why is aopa so beholding to NEW Planes manufacturers. My interests are not the same as they guy who buys a million dollar new airplanes, nor King Aires, nor Jets. Let the manufacturers fend for themselves.

Maybe exactly what we need is an organization that is laser focused on Classic aged airplanes and twins the issues of FAA regulation of maintaining same; of 55 and older year old pilots keeping their medicals; pushing mogas out to 85% of small airports; of backing off TSA from small classic general aviation all together.

That is what I care about and that is what it takes for me to not "cheap-out."
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bump, bump
 
OK that's it.

I have changed my opinion, AOPA is for chumps.

I'm going to start a real low cost SMALL GA advocacy group.

I will charge only $5 per year.

It's called CHEAP: Center to Help Everyone in Aviation Prosper

There won't be a magazine or wine club or corporate jet.

I will be traveling the country in a Cessna 150 extolling the virtues of small GA. It will take me the entire year to circle the country (AK and HI are on their own). I will be camping under the wing most nights so don't expect me to have a suit on when you meet me. I will be visiting lots of small airstrips and cleaning up in the bathrooms whenever possible. When I pass through your town please take some time off of work and we'll drive (in your car) to meet the local politicians in hopes of drumming up continued support for GA. Bring some sandwiches so we can offer lunch as well.

I'm also planning a couple of fundraisers to help pay for lawyers and lobbyist. Maybe bring my guitar to burning man and stage an impromptu blue grass concert. That or maybe an airplane wash. Let me know if you have any ideas.

If I fail to prevail over the current challenges GA is facing, it won't stop me from flying and continuing the mission. I can burn car gas (let's hope they keep those courtesy cars full of gas). I only fly VFR so user fees won't affect me. I can fly slow and low enough to blend in with freeway traffic; allowing me to easily sneak into the D.C. ADIZ or any of the other newly restricted airspace and get some time with the real big fish.

Know this: CHEAP will be out there flying on YOUR behalf, never wasting your money, and most importantly not doing a single thing to make you feel like a chump.

Peace- :D
 
N801BH said:
Thanks Mari..... Flightaware only lets me see the last 4 flights... And I ain't paying to see the trip history of a plane I help pay for......
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Hmmm... I don't pay either. Maybe it's because I'm a "charter member". :dunno:

But for those who are curious...
 

Attachments

Pretty sad to see pilots taking issue with a pilot/aviation organization that utilizes a business jet for BUSINESS on their behalf. I guess the current administration's "class warfare" campaign is working. Even within the aviation community. Sad.
 
Tony_Fletcher said:
Pretty sad to see pilots taking issue with a pilot/aviation organization that utilizes a business jet for BUSINESS on their behalf. I guess the current administration's "class warfare" campaign is working. Even within the aviation community. Sad.
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It's not so much warfare as it is poker.

It's important not to allow the other guy to dwindle down your tiny stack of chips over time, and sometimes you have to know when to get up and walk away from the table.
 
Tony_Fletcher said:
Pretty sad to see pilots taking issue with a pilot/aviation organization that utilizes a business jet for BUSINESS on their behalf. I guess the current administration's "class warfare" campaign is working. Even within the aviation community. Sad.
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Just pay us because you always have.:rofl: We can't cite value provided but need you to stay members so we can continue at the salaries and benefits to which we have become accustomed.:lol:
It is just 40 bucks, you give 40 bucks a year to bums on the street right? Same thing.:yesnod:
 
For those who believe AOPA is an advocate for general aviation aircraft owners, please explain and defend their long held support for ADS-B and NextGen:

"And ADS-B brings so many benefits to GA pilots that AOPA has been a long-term supporter of the technology." Quoted from:

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070118ads-b.html

Since a Mode-C transponder is technologically much simpler than an ADS-B transponder with a GPS - even without a cockpit display - it isn't clear what drugs they were on when they wrote "Our goal will be to bring the advantages of ADS-B to the cockpit 10 years from now at no greater cost than today's Mode C transponder—with weather and traffic displays as added bonuses."

Quoted from: http://www.aopa.org/prez/prespos/2006/pp0601.html

This is the single most costly mandate to general aviation in decades, and not only was the AOPA not fighting to limit or change it, it was (according to them) actively promoting increases in NextGen operational costs and complexity by suggesting delivery of extra services beyond those envisioned by the FAA.

So explain again why an alternative advocacy organization shouldn't be formed that is more in tune with the needs of the middle class aviator?
 
Yes, please explain this oh wise defenders of AOPA:yikes:
Jim Logajan said:
For those who believe AOPA is an advocate for general aviation aircraft owners, please explain and defend their long held support for ADS-B and NextGen:

"And ADS-B brings so many benefits to GA pilots that AOPA has been a long-term supporter of the technology." Quoted from:

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070118ads-b.html

Since a Mode-C transponder is technologically much simpler than an ADS-B transponder with a GPS - even without a cockpit display - it isn't clear what drugs they were on when they wrote "Our goal will be to bring the advantages of ADS-B to the cockpit 10 years from now at no greater cost than today's Mode C transponder—with weather and traffic displays as added bonuses."

Quoted from: http://www.aopa.org/prez/prespos/2006/pp0601.html

This is the single most costly mandate to general aviation in decades, and not only was the AOPA not fighting to limit or change it, it was (according to them) actively promoting increases in NextGen operational costs and complexity by suggesting delivery of extra services beyond those envisioned by the FAA.

So explain again why an alternative advocacy organization shouldn't be formed that is more in tune with the needs of the middle class aviator?
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AOPA tapping out before the fights even started. Giving 40 bucks to an alcoholic bum is money better spent. :yesnod:
 
Again, a failure to understand the questions should not be confused with having the answers.

ClimbnSink said:
AOPA tapping out before the fights even started. Giving 40 bucks to an alcoholic bum is money better spent. :yesnod:
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You don't understand, send me money. :goofy: AOPeans sound like Congress.:lol:
 
Been a member since 1964 and will renew again. Just remember the parents mantra when faced with another disaster from your children; "This too shall pass". This is not Craig Fullers' organization, it is ours, and he is our employee. As I see it, he is not up to the job, and definitely not up to the pay scale for the work he does. A grassroots effort could be very effective in changing the management to a more responsive team.
 
I renewed earlier today, and keep asking the disgruntled for a list of Fuller's specific shortcomings. So far none of them have come up with anything other than penis envy over the size of the plane. Can you help fill in the blanks?

glydrflyr said:
Been a member since 1964 and will renew again. Just remember the parents mantra when faced with another disaster from your children; "This too shall pass". This is not Craig Fullers' organization, it is ours, and he is our employee. As I see it, he is not up to the job, and definitely not up to the pay scale for the work he does. A grassroots effort could be very effective in changing the management to a more responsive team.
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glydrflyr said:
....... it is ours, and he is our employee. As I see it, he is not up to the job, and definitely not up to the pay scale for the work he does. A grassroots effort could be very effective in changing the management to a more responsive team.
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Agreed... We are involved in straightening up the EAA... And, so far our little grass roots org has been successful.. And we have more to come too..;)

Bring it on...:yes:
 
N801BH said:
..

Thanks Mari..... Flightaware only lets me see the last 4 flights... And I ain't paying to see the trip history of a plane I help pay for......

And to set the record straight.. I am a member, been one for 32 years... I would let it lapse but I am the AOPA Airport Support Network Volunteer for Jackson Hole, so to stay engaged for the interest of GA in general and AOPA in particular, I need to stay a paying member...

I still don't like the direction home office is headed though..:nonod:
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I'll pay $40 to support their ASN program.
 
Jim Logajan said:
For those who believe AOPA is an advocate for general aviation aircraft owners, please explain and defend their long held support for ADS-B and NextGen:

"And ADS-B brings so many benefits to GA pilots that AOPA has been a long-term supporter of the technology." Quoted from:

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070118ads-b.html

Since a Mode-C transponder is technologically much simpler than an ADS-B transponder with a GPS - even without a cockpit display - it isn't clear what drugs they were on when they wrote "Our goal will be to bring the advantages of ADS-B to the cockpit 10 years from now at no greater cost than today's Mode C transponder—with weather and traffic displays as added bonuses."

Quoted from: http://www.aopa.org/prez/prespos/2006/pp0601.html

This is the single most costly mandate to general aviation in decades, and not only was the AOPA not fighting to limit or change it, it was (according to them) actively promoting increases in NextGen operational costs and complexity by suggesting delivery of extra services beyond those envisioned by the FAA.

So explain again why an alternative advocacy organization shouldn't be formed that is more in tune with the needs of the middle class aviator?
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Yeah, that free weather delivered to my iPad sucks big time...not.

Yeah, there will be some upgrade costs...but I think the benefits do far outweigh the costs.
 
Rayden said:
That's actually ok with me because I rather have an actual A+ rated life insurer behind it than AOPA.
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Last time I got one THROUGH AOPA, it was with an A+ company.

They just use group buying power, and got me a lower rate as a pilot, lower than anywhere else.
 
Cool, that's what I'm looking for. I currently have Term Life with New York Life, but my premium level probably does not include flying an airplane other than commercial. I am in the process of finding out, but will need to look for additional coverage from one that does not exclude aviation regardless.

Dave Krall CFII said:
Last time I got one THROUGH AOPA, it was with an A+ company.

They just use group buying power, and got me a lower rate as a pilot, lower than anywhere else.
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ClimbnSink said:
Just pay us because you always have.:rofl: We can't cite value provided but need you to stay members so we can continue at the salaries and benefits to which we have become accustomed.:lol:
It is just 40 bucks, you give 40 bucks a year to bums on the street right? Same thing.:yesnod:
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Several of us have recited the value we see. If you don't see value, move along. I get way more than my $40 worth.
 
LDJones said:
I'll pay $40 to support their ASN program.
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Not saying you're not helping, but every ASN program I've viewed lately has credits plastered on it saying it was paid for by some dead pilot's estate.

We'll assume the pilots who donated passed of natural causes. Ha.
 
In a centralized system, local problems are less likely to be addressed than in a decentralized system.

EAA, with its abundance of local chapters, is less centralized and more capable of addressing problems than the AOPA. When I had to downsize my commitments to various organizations, I chose to continue to support the EAA.
 
denverpilot said:
Not saying you're not helping, but every ASN program I've viewed lately has credits plastered on it saying it was paid for by some dead pilot's estate.

We'll assume the pilots who donated passed of natural causes. Ha.
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:dunno::dunno::dunno:.....

AOPA ....Airport Support Network.... Credits ?

Lil Ben is getting confused .......................... again..:goofy:
 
Is that a valid comparison of two organizations with a totally different focus?
tinerj said:
In a centralized system, local problems are less likely to be addressed than in a decentralized system.

EAA, with its abundance of local chapters, is less centralized and more capable of addressing problems than the AOPA. When I had to downsize my commitments to various organizations, I chose to continue to support the EAA.
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Clearly if I were running the AOPA everything would be better!

Sadly, I don't have time to do it.

Still, it's the only national organization we have that can speak for us in Washington. And the fact is that Washington is growing more powerful everyday, and Washington is full of people would gladly outlaw general aviation just to gain a talking point on tonight's news.

Many more in DC would impose a la carte user fees that would effectively kill GA for all but the very wealthy.

Because it's not 'fair' that some people can fly privately and some can't.

My personal opinion is that it is crazy for any GA pilot to not join AOPA and EAA both, YMMV.

I would ask only one thing of the anti-AOPA pilots of America. For heaven's sake, don't slam the AOPA for using General Aviation airplanes to travel about the country.

Talk about cutting off the prop to spite the cockpit!

Edited to add:

If you don't want to join AOPA, consider sending your dues money to the AOPA Political Action Committee . The PAC can directly reward pro-aviation politicians in the currency they understand, i.e. currency.

You many not like it, but the fact is that our elected officials gather more power to themselves every day, and they sell it cheap. The AOPA PAC is the best way to buy them off.

Note that by law the AOPA organization is very limited as to what it can say about the independent AOPA PAC.
 
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I'm OK with user fees. You use it, you pay for it. I don't use it and don't want to pay for you to use it.
 
ClimbnSink said:
I'm OK with user fees. You use it, you pay for it. I don't use it and don't want to pay for you to use it.
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Agreed.... To be fair they need to remove ALL taxes on aviation fuel and go to a user fee.. That way ................you pay to play..:yes:

Otherwise.. we are getting screwed TWICE..:yes:
 
N801BH said:
Agreed.... To be fair they need to remove ALL taxes on aviation fuel and go to a user fee.. That way ................you pay to play..:yes:

Otherwise.. we are getting screwed TWICE..:yes:
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We pay to play when we buy fuel!
 
flyingmoose said:
We pay to play when we buy fuel!
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And you are subsidized by those who buy fuel and don't use services. Funny calling nonAOPA members cheap when all AOPA really amounts to is lobbying to get welfare for pilots.
 
JimNtexas said:
Still, it's the only national organization we have that can speak for us in Washington.
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That is quite an insult (or monumental AOPA hubris) to other national aviation groups. Consider:

It was a petition by the United States Ultralight Association (http://www.usua.org/SportPilot/Archive/SportPilotReg.htm) that eventually lead the FAA to develop the Light Sport (LSA) regulations. During that development process the FAA also contacted the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA), United States Hang Gliding Association (USHGA), and Aero Sports Connection (ASC). The FAA mentions those organizations in early deliberations, but not the AOPA.

And the fact is that Washington is growing more powerful everyday, and Washington is full of people would gladly outlaw general aviation just to gain a talking point on tonight's news.
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If DC is full of these anti-GA publicity-seeking people, you should have no problem naming them. Hard to tell what threat they really are if they remain unnamed. Doubly hard for anyone else to do anything if you and the AOPA hold a secret list of these people.

Many more in DC would impose a la carte user fees that would effectively kill GA for all but the very wealthy.
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First, I count only the Administration as proposing user fees; and that is a flat $100/flight, but other than listing some exemptions, the proposal never addressed many details. A majority in the current and past congresses have been against such fees. They've been against such fees for a long time - thanks to more than just the efforts of AOPA.

Second, the Canadians switched to user fees about 16 years ago. You need to ask Canadian pilots and aircraft owners whether they think GA is now dead in CA, and whether user fees had anything to do with it. One possible Canadian aviation forum to ask: http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/index.php

It is one thing to say AOPA should be supported for its services or even its alleged advocacy, but it is quite another to actively ignore or squash on the efforts of other organizations in order to promote AOPA. The reality is that a dollar spent on AOPA is a dollar not spent on another group that might be more deserving.
 
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