AOPA Renewal??

[airdale]

If you are a member, are you renewing?

No. Membership expires in February and at that point I'm done. Fed up.

Give me some reasons to renew?

• AOPA is a good resource for many things. The web site is informative and the support people are pleasant and responsive.
• Flight Training magazine, though inevitably somewhat repetitive, is a great resource even for rated pilots. It's also a great way to avoid the puffery and infomercials in AOPA Pilot. I subscribed to Flight Training for several years after overdosing on pictures of Phil Boyer in his silly leather jacket.
• The 50% of the magazine that is not self-congratulatory puffery and infomercials is usually interesting to read.

And some reasons not to renew?

• Greed has reached the tipping point. With about 6 years' dues on hand in cash, dues were raised, previously-free medical benefits were stripped from the basic membership, and the organization is grasping at every crackpot idea for extracting additional revenue from customers and advertisers.
• Expenses are wildly out of control and in need of adult supervision. The justification for "The Jet" is completely bogus. If anyone needs a jet for "image," it is NBAA. NBAA does not have a jet.
• There is evidence of self-dealing. Yodice's firm opaquely runs the legal services program, there are unconfirmed reports of the organization hosting events at a restaurant partially owned by Craig.
• Biting the hand that feeds it has become egregious. AOPA has no business competing in the EFB space, which is already well served by superior products and a range of capable players. Infomercials and AOPA insuance agency ads bashing Avemco have become ubiquitous. Avemco is a good company and a good citizen in GA.
• There is roughly $75 million of cash, far beyond the business needs of the organization and far beyond what peer organizations have. Not to worry, though, as there is a plan to p155 it away by the organization's becoming a venture capitalist and further biting the hands that feed it.

Neither for nor against:

• It doesn't matter whether Fuller is fat or not and his $800k salary is probably consistent with peers. The NBAA guy makes about the same. There are solid reasons why the lobbyist community is referred to as "beltway bandits."
• We have no independent information on whether AOPA is effective at lobbying or not. We are, however, fed a steady diet of self-congratulatory magazine stories and puffery, none of which helps to answer the question.
• "Members" is a misnomer. The AOPA is interested in us only as revenue sources. They work hard to please their customers, just as Burger King and Target do and for the same reasons. Governance of Burger King, Target, and AOPA is none of our business. This may matter to you or it may not.
• It costs $40/year. So what? I can't fill the tank in my little RX-8 for that.

 

[LDJones]

Hmmmmm...

They defend us from unknown legislation, upcoming laws are not public info . It's all smoke and mirrors to scare us into paying the annual fee because without them we would loose our rights to fly.

The way you put it the whole thing looks like a mob shake down routine, "you pay us and we will protect you from the boogie man" skit.

This reminds me of the classic line in the Wizard of Oz movie...
"( ignore the man behind the curtain)".. As it turns out the entire Oz was a fantasy to promote the wizards hold on the unknown... IMHO..

Ps.. I bet the wizard didn't make 813,000 a year with all the other perks thrown in too. Of course, they didn't have Citation jets back then either.

Geez...it's $45! The mag and website are worth that to me whether they ever do anything in Washington or not. Their training resources for me as a CFI also exceed what I get from NAFI. They are worth supporting for that reason alone...we all suffer if the student pilot supply dries up.

 

[wabower]

The old ones aren't the only ones who are gonna die, but when they do it will be after years of spending their lavish social security money that you are providing and flying whatever and wherever they want without obsessing over whether they can afford to maintain folding wheels and a constant-speed prop, or making excuses why we can't send AOPA $40/yr. Have a nice day.

Except no one can prove AOPA has a voice in DC. What we know: AOPA fear mongers for members, and pays execs lavish salaries. All advocacy orgs end up in the bloated uselessness boat, let the shriveled old AOPA hacks die peacefully.

 

[ClimbnSink]

The old ones aren't the only ones who are gonna die, but when they do it will be after years of spending their lavish social security money that you are providing and flying whatever and wherever they want without obsessing over whether they can afford to maintain folding wheels and a constant-speed prop, or making excuses why we can't send AOPA $40/yr. Have a nice day.

Race is on, will your death panels get you first or will we have the joy of stripping your SS and raiding your retirement funds.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Ok, went back to the beginning of thread. If someone is looking for an excuse not to write a check to AOPA they can find one. The fact that AOPA gives you a voice in DC for $40 more than makes up for any faults one can find.

I am not satisfied with the voice. I would gladly pay more for a better one.

 

[tmyers]

<----- plans to renew

 

[azure]

When I bought my airplane I called AOPA and received a verbal quote over the phone with a written one via e-mail. I did better with a local broker so I went with him.

Ditto -- in fact the local broker's quote was MUCH better. I was even able to get a quote for higher liability coverage than I eventually chose through the local broker. AOPA would not even quote me for that coverage.

That said, I'm still renewing my membership, mostly for the legal services plan.

 

[NoHeat]

Geez...it's $45! The mag and website are worth that to me whether they ever do anything in Washington or not.

The website is why I remain a member. The flight planner mostly. The plane valuation tool was useful when I was buying. The other stuff on the website sometimes helps, too. The magazine -- that is only worth about $5 a year to me, but it's something.

 

[denverpilot]

I let mine auto-renew last month. They're the least effective of large two national groups. Neither is particularly interested in helping Certificated aircraft owners. Only one claims to.

I get way more bang for my buck from Cessna Pilots Assn. If things got tight, AOPA would be the first chopped. Realistically though, if things were that tight, I wouldn't be flying.

 

[drizzt76]

I plan on renewing for awhile. The cost isn't much compared to other aviation endeavors, (or anything else for that matter). We are pretty good at eating our own...on that, I wonder how much AOPA pays for a congressperson to enter a bill for User Fees. Never mind I digress...

 

[wabower]

AOPA insurance underwriting remains a mystery within the industry. Sometimes they are great, sometimes they are awful. I don't know anybody who professes to know why.

Ditto -- in fact the local broker's quote was MUCH better. I was even able to get a quote for higher liability coverage than I eventually chose through the local broker. AOPA would not even quote me for that coverage.

That said, I'm still renewing my membership, mostly for the legal services plan.

 

[timwinters]

I let my membership expire last summer. Regardless of whether it's $40 or $4000 per year, they're not doing their job and I firmly believe that nothing will change unless and until there is a mass exodus.

So, I encourage the mass exodus.

 

[airdale]

I wonder how much AOPA pays for a congressperson to enter a bill for User Fees.

I don't think AOPA plays in that league. You are talking about AIPAC, the trial lawyers, big pharma, and guys like that who can afford to buy enough of Congress to basically get what they want. In the non-purchaser category are organizations with big and politically active membership like AARP and NRA. AOPA is just a little mouse squeeking in the hallways. That is not a criticism of AOPA, just an observation of fact.

Any Fortune magazine subscribers here? Fortune apparently publishes a list of the 115 most influential lobbying organizations each year. It would be interesting to know if AOPA even shows up.

 

[Everskyward]

I don't think AOPA plays in that league. You are talking about AIPAC, the trial lawyers, big pharma, and guys like that who can afford to buy enough of Congress to basically get what they want. In the non-purchaser category are organizations with big and politically active membership like AARP and NRA. AOPA is just a little mouse squeeking in the hallways. That is not a criticism of AOPA, just an observation of fact.

Any Fortune magazine subscribers here? Fortune apparently publishes a list of the 115 most influential lobbying organizations each year. It would be interesting to know if AOPA even shows up.

According to this they rank 168th, in spending anyway. I don't know how you would rank influence.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000233&lname=Aircraft+Owners+&+Pilots+Assn

In contrast here is the NBAA which ranks 255th.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?cycle=2012&type=P&id=D000054186

 

[airdale]

I don't know how you would rank influence.

Me neither. Apparently Fortune conducts a poll.

At least AOPA has a better story than NBAA representing the corporate jet set. They are probably better off not telling the congresscritters that AOPA has a jet, though. Which further begs the question.

 

[drizzt76]

I don't think AOPA plays in that league. You are talking about AIPAC, the trial lawyers, big pharma, and guys like that who can afford to buy enough of Congress to basically get what they want. In the non-purchaser category are organizations with big and politically active membership like AARP and NRA. AOPA is just a little mouse squeeking in the hallways. That is not a criticism of AOPA, just an observation of fact.

Any Fortune magazine subscribers here? Fortune apparently publishes a list of the 115 most influential lobbying organizations each year. It would be interesting to know if AOPA even shows up.

I was simply making the off handed remark that the moment User Fees are mentioned in the legislature , money rolls in to AOPA.... maybe not, but they sure cry wolf when it happens.

 

[wabower]

Never let a good crisis go to waste.

I was simply making the off handed remark that the moment User Fees are mentioned in the legislature , money rolls in to AOPA.... maybe not, but they sure cry wolf when it happens.

 

[Bob Noel]

What are the insurance scams?

trying to sucker people with "RENEW NOW BEFORE YOUR AIRCRAFT INSURANCE EXPIRES!" crap. Especially slimey when I didn't use AOPA for my aircraft insurance and had just renewed.

I'm not interested in supporting an ethically-challenged organization.

 

[Rayden]

You are talking about life insurance right? I am about to check out their life insurance since my current one at my current premium likely has an aviation exemption. Is AOPA having an actual life insurer as a business, or it's just a broker?

I will say I am disappointed in AOPA. I am a student pilot and I needed to get insurance before my wife would let me fly. I thought I would check the rates AOPA offered by filling out their online application. Well after filling out all the details on my life, it says something like "Thank you, we will be in contact with you within the next 60 days". WHAT?? 60 days. I couldn't wait that long to simply find out what my rate would be with them. I wanted to start flying. I got another plan with another company the next day and decided to contact AOPA to cancel the insurance. When I called them, they said they didnt have any record of my application and couldn't do anything about it. That got me concerned, so I asked who is handling my insurance with them and they didnt know. Now I am thinking, great. I just applied for insurance online and have no idea who has all my personal information. I try them a few days later and finally speak to someone whom tells me a phone number to call, so I contact that number and they tell me they can not cancel any applications until they are fully processed. What a joke. Then about 30 days later I get a call from someone from some insurance company asking to setup an appointment to draw blood. I told them I went with another company and to cancel my application. I'm not sure if any of you use their insurance, but that was not a good first experience with the AOPA for me.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

He flies his own Bonanza. Does that count?

I mean fly his own plane rather than the company jet.

 

[flav8r]

No. Membership expires in February and at that point I'm done. Fed up.

You go ahead and dare to try and leave the Familia...

You WILL pay for the protection or else!!!

Or else you will be bombarded with emails and weekly postal mailings that will hound you till you succumb and finally rejoin the Familia.

I tried to leave once.... Just when I thought I had moved far enough away, they found me.

Remember that you can run but you can't hide.

 

[wabower]

So you're also opposed to the AME's and aviation training organizations who do the same?

trying to sucker people with "RENEW NOW BEFORE YOUR AIRCRAFT INSURANCE EXPIRES!" crap. Especially slimey when I didn't use AOPA for my aircraft insurance and had just renewed.

I'm not interested in supporting an ethically-challenged organization.

 

[JasonM]

You are talking about life insurance right? I am about to check out their life insurance since my current one at my current premium likely has an aviation exemption. Is AOPA having an actual life insurer as a business, or it's just a broker?

Yeah. They outsource it or something. It looked as thought they had their own life insurance, but its not. And even the company that setup the blood work said they never heard of AOPA, so its obviously not a close relationship either.

 

[airdale]

They outsource it or something.

There is no such thing as "AOPA Insurance." The subsidiary is just an insurance agent, shopping the same insurance companies that any other agent can shop. With their buying power, though, they should have some clout that could be used to help with claims disputes. Whether they do that or not, I don't know.

Their blurb:
-------------------------------------------------
AOPA Insurance Agency
PO Box 9170
Wichita, Kansas 67277
USA
Tel: (800) 622-2672
Fax: (316) 942-0091

AOPA Insurance Agency is proud to be the only aircraft insurance agency backed by AOPA's 60 years of general aviation experience. We know flying and we know insurance. With the buying power of 400,000 pilots, AOPA members have made us the largest light aircraft insurance agency in the world. Whether you need Owners, Renters, or CFI coverage, this site will provide you with the best advice on aircraft insurance, as well as a quick, easy, no-obligation way to get quotes on policies from a choice of A rated underwriters. And once you've got the coverage you need, AOPA Insurance Agency will continue to deliver the outstanding personal service you deserve, year after year. Please check AOPA Insurance Agency for more information.
-------------------------------------------------

 

[Everskyward]

I mean fly his own plane rather than the company jet.

Do you think a Bonanza is an appropriate airplane for corporate travel when your headquarters are on the east coast and your area of business covers the entire country?

 

[ClimbnSink]

Do you think a Bonanza is an appropriate airplane for corporate travel when your headquarters are on the east coast and your area of business covers the entire country?

Mixing self flown GA with the smoker woild more accurately reflect his constituents. He doesntneed a jet, I dont care that he jas one because I dont pay for it.

 

[cbmontgo]

I've never quite understood all the AOPA bashing. I think they're a great value:

- A voice for GA in Washington
- Very good magazine
- Great informational resources on their website
- Promote flight training with some excellent resources
- Great flight planning website

All for $40 a year? It's an excellent value I've happily paid for 35 years.

Exactly. Until someone on here wants to start a new and better organization that becomes a household name in support of GA, I'll continue to support them.

 

[wabower]

And the line for who gives a **** forms to the left.

Mixing self flown GA with the smoker woild more accurately reflect his constituents. He doesntneed a jet, I dont care that he jas one because I dont pay for it.

 

[wabower]

It's a cheap-out. If membership were free nobody would ever leave.

Exactly. Until someone on here wants to start a new and better organization that becomes a household name in support of GA, I'll continue to support them.

 

[Everskyward]

Mixing self flown GA with the smoker woild more accurately reflect his constituents. He doesntneed a jet, I dont care that he jas one because I dont pay for it.

I suspect most of his constituents are based at and fly into GA airports where airlines don't go. I also suspect that you don't know what his travel schedule is, and neither do I, so we can't make any judgments about whether or not the jet is appropriate. I just think it's humorous that we criticize others for bashing corporate jets as a symbol of excess but when it hits closer to home and pocketbook then it's different.

 

[Alexb2000]

Here's how I know AOPA works:

1. The public by and large does not like GA. Makes it really easy to pass anti-GA legislation.

2. The environmentalist HATE GA and are well funded and fanatical.

3. The current administration thinks that anyone that owns and aircraft is a filthy rich, elitist, out of touch, has been, that won't pay their "fair" share.

Despite all that we are still flying, buying avgas, and filing without user fees!

It isn't about the magazine, website, forums, compensation, insurance, or any of that other crap. It is about the survival of our avocation, profession, passion, etc.

There is no other organization or choice to debate.

Don't be the typical cheap pilot, pony up the $45 without expectation and enjoy flying for as long as it lasts.

I gave $200 last year and will give much more this year if the need is there. I like my freedoms and they are being assaulted on all sides.

 

[wabower]

And a high percentage of the most vocal squealers have no clue about any of the economics or business elements of using a jet. When did AOPA buy it? During Boyer's time or after Fuller took over?

I suspect most of his constituents are based at and fly into GA airports where airlines don't go. I also suspect that you don't know what his travel schedule is, and neither do I, so we can't make any judgments about whether or not the jet is appropriate. I just think it's humorous that we criticize others for bashing corporate jets as a symbol of excess but when it hits closer to home and pocketbook then it's different.

 

[ClimbnSink]

AOPA members are suckers. Send me 45 bucks a year each or I will ask my blue state reps to ban 100LL and start user fees.
AOPA has power over the green lobby, yeah right. Stupid old mans club, stuck in the 1950s.

 

[wabower]

Ask how many want to trade places with the big-mouth know-nothings.

AOPA members are suckers. Send me 45 bucks a year each or I will ask my blue state reps to ban 100LL and start user fees.
AOPA has power over the green lobby, yeah right. Stupid old mans club, stuck in the 1950s.

 

[airdale]

I also suspect that you don't know what his travel schedule is, and neither do I, so we can't make any judgments about whether or not the jet is appropriate.

Check flightaware.com for N4GA. It looks like they used it last Thursday to drop someone off in Portsmouth, NH for the holidays. It's only used about three times a week/150 flights a year.

Here are some cost numbers that popped out of a Google search: http://compair.aviationresearch.com/index.aspx?action=aircraft_profile&id=598&document_id=3, though the numbers don't appear to include lease costs (It's leased from GE Capital). From other looking around, it's maybe a $4M asset. So if the lease is 5-10% of the asset value, that's $200-400K/year -- a lot of "Pilot Chews."

Do you think a Bonanza is an appropriate airplane for corporate travel when your headquarters are on the east coast and your area of business covers the entire country?

No. Appropriate aircraft include A320s, 737s and 757s.

Until someone on here wants to start a new and better organization that becomes a household name in support of GA, I'll continue to support them.

As long as there is blind devotion, the party will continue. I've just decided that it will continue without my money. And there is an infinitesimal chance that, if enough people make that decision, the party will be cancelled and the good things the organization does will again be the focus.

 

[Everskyward]

Check flightaware.com for N4GA. It looks like they used it last Thursday to drop someone off in Portsmouth, NH for the holidays. It's only used about three times a week/150 flights a year.

Ok I looked it up and added up the hours. In six months it flew approximately 195 hours which is 390/year. That's well within what is considered reasonable usage for a corporate jet.

 

[wabower]

Check flightaware.com for N4GA. It looks like they used it last Thursday to drop someone off in Portsmouth, NH for the holidays. It's only used about three times a week/150 flights a year.

So who gets first dibs at bitching rights? Those who think it's flying too much or those who think not nearly enough?

Here are some cost numbers that popped out of a Google search: http://compair.aviationresearch.com/index.aspx?action=aircraft_profile&id=598&document_id=3, though the numbers don't appear to include lease costs (It's leased from GE Capital). From other looking around, it's maybe a $4M asset. So if the lease is 5-10% of the asset value, that's $200-400K/year -- a lot of "Pilot Chews."

What type lease? Operating? Capital? Synthetic? Do all of your financial decisions and analyses come from Google?

No. Appropriate aircraft include A320s, 737s and 757s.

How measured? All costs considered including seat-miles, schedules, etc? Were any expense budgets a part of this conclusion?

As long as there is blind devotion, the party will continue. I've just decided that it will continue without my money. And there is an infinitesimal chance that, if enough people make that decision, the party will be cancelled and the good things the organization does will again be the focus.

Until a better alternative is presented, a high percentage of members will continue to support the organization. Don't hold your breath waiting for a better voice on the hill.

 

[Rayden]

That's actually ok with me because I rather have an actual A+ rated life insurer behind it than AOPA.

There is no such thing as "AOPA Insurance." The subsidiary is just an insurance agent, shopping the same insurance companies that any other agent can shop. With their buying power, though, they should have some clout that could be used to help with claims disputes. Whether they do that or not, I don't know.

Their blurb:
-------------------------------------------------
AOPA Insurance Agency
PO Box 9170
Wichita, Kansas 67277
USA
Tel: (800) 622-2672
Fax: (316) 942-0091

AOPA Insurance Agency is proud to be the only aircraft insurance agency backed by AOPA's 60 years of general aviation experience. We know flying and we know insurance. With the buying power of 400,000 pilots, AOPA members have made us the largest light aircraft insurance agency in the world. Whether you need Owners, Renters, or CFI coverage, this site will provide you with the best advice on aircraft insurance, as well as a quick, easy, no-obligation way to get quotes on policies from a choice of A rated underwriters. And once you've got the coverage you need, AOPA Insurance Agency will continue to deliver the outstanding personal service you deserve, year after year. Please check AOPA Insurance Agency for more information.
-------------------------------------------------

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Do you think a Bonanza is an appropriate airplane for corporate travel when your headquarters are on the east coast and your area of business covers the entire country?

I am just a poor country boy from Kansas and I might not understand this high finance and lobby business but it seems to me:

Yes, particularly if you want to represent my aviation interests. I want to see him fly a classic bird as often as possible. But even if he just used it under 400 miles radius of aopa, and even if only on pure VFR flights it would warm my heart.

First their office a car ride from down town DC. That is where all the lobbying should be done. Every senator, representative and other lobbiest are there at least 10% of of the time(hard working sob's as they are).

So I question the need to fly from the East coast to California or Las Vegas, NV type trips 150 times a year.

Second, $40 X 400,000 comes to $18 million basic membership fees. 390 hrs of jet time flown a year at $4k per hour (including flight crews and such) works out to about 10% of total membership revenues. Seems excessive to me.

Third, where are the funds from Cessna, Beechcraft, Piper, Cirrus and the rest? OK they support the big guys toy store associations but not aopa then why is aopa so beholding to NEW Planes manufacturers. My interests are not the same as they guy who buys a million dollar new airplanes, nor King Aires, nor Jets. Let the manufacturers fend for themselves.

Maybe exactly what we need is an organization that is laser focused on Classic aged airplanes and twins the issues of FAA regulation of maintaining same; of 55 and older year old pilots keeping their medicals; pushing mogas out to 85% of small airports; of backing off TSA from small classic general aviation all together.

That is what I care about and that is what it takes for me to not "cheap-out."

 

[ClimbnSink]

The jet is justified by the top secret awesome work aopa can't tell you about. User fees, user fees, user fees, only voice, user fees, aopa or nothing, user fees. That'll scare forty bucks oughta ya. Don't be a chump.