Any hope for medical?

Light Sport works very well for me. I can cruise at the LSA limit of 120 knots (138 MPH) down low and a bit more up high. With full fuel (about 2-1/2 hours with reserve) I can carry a couple of 190 pounders and 30 lbs of baggage. Less fuel or lighter friends will allow more baggage if needed. FWIW, I can pack a lotta stuff in 30 lbs. For the most part I fly solo and many flights are just exploring the clouds and the sky alone. I have made some nice cross country trips.

Don't toss away the dream ...
 
woopig said:
A friend of a friend is on the local AME list and is willing to speak to me for an off the record consultation, so I’m going to get his input and give this one last chance; otherwise this dream might just have to die. Again, thank you all so much for taking the time to comment.
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This is really sad from the perspective of life in America. There are clearly issues and history that should keep people out of the left seat but it's such a tragedy in cases where a person, or worse a minor, who may not even be aware of the possible long-term restrictions is given a drug to help and it later turns into such a restriction.

While it's likely of little use against the giant FAA machine, I'd be sure and write this story down and make sure your legislatures see it. Without them we wouldn't have basic Med so at least some care about bureaucracy run amuck.
 
Pugs said:
This is really sad from the perspective of life in America. There are clearly issues and history that should keep people out of the left seat but it's such a tragedy in cases where a person, or worse a minor, who may not even be aware of the possible long-term restrictions is given a drug to help and it later turns into such a restriction.

While it's likely of little use against the giant FAA machine, I'd be sure and write this story down and make sure your legislatures see it. Without them we wouldn't have basic Med so at least some care about bureaucracy run amuck.
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It still seems silly to me that someone can be deemed "unsafe" to operate a 1700# aircraft that for the most part flies far away from other vehicles yet the same "unsafe" person can buy a 7000# 15pax van, fill every seat, and barrel down the interstate at 85mph doorknob to doorknob with other road users. Makes NO sense to me...
 
I’d think a website with collection personal stories relating experience with the FAA aeromedical branch would be illuminating. For the vast bulk of my 52 years as pilot, getting a Third Class medical was merely a technicality. Coming back to aviation after a several year break, I am astounded at the complexity, and see that it’s become a tangled, cumbersome, autocratic morass that only a Federal Bureaucracy could evolve. I’d love to see evidence that it actually has been effective in making the skies safer and that it’s worth the careers that it has ended.
 
MacFly said:
I’d think a website with collection personal stories relating experience with the FAA aeromedical branch would be illuminating. For the vast bulk of my 52 years as pilot, getting a Third Class medical was merely a technicality. Coming back to aviation after a several year break, I am astounded at the complexity, and see that it’s become a tangled, cumbersome, autocratic morass that only a Federal Bureaucracy could evolve. I’d love to see evidence that it actually has been effective in making the skies safer and that it’s worth the careers that it has ended.
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Getting a 3rd class to me was no big deal (a couple years ago at age 54) but that's an issue in itself. $100 and in and out in 30 minutes with an AME I picked off the web. As opposed to 30 minutes with a one of my GPs nurses and 30 minutes with him, a Dr that has known me and has seen me yearly for 15 years and I trust to give me solid health advice based on our history. In my case going to Basic Med wasn't because it was easier but because seeing an unknown Dr and paying him to give me a piece of paper really wasn't any sort of value add.

I did essentially first class flight physicals for 20 years in the Navy and frankly with the technology and staff that my GP has I feel it's a much better determinant of my health.

I do like your storyboard idea though.
 
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Bill Jennings said:
It still seems silly to me that someone can be deemed "unsafe" to operate a 1700# aircraft that for the most part flies far away from other vehicles yet the same "unsafe" person can buy a 7000# 15pax van, fill every seat, and barrel down the interstate at 85mph doorknob to doorknob with other road users. Makes NO sense to me...
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Shhhh! Don't give them any ideas!
 
woopig said:
Hi guys. 43 year old dude here who has been excited to finally go through with this dream, but I’m learning now I might not clear the medical. I won’t bore you with the details, summary is at three different points in my life I have been on SSRI’s for quite short term. Always associated with a major stressor (daughter had two heart surgeries, divorce). This most recent time (divorce), I was on an SSRI and Ativan to sleep. I have been off everything for months and now that the divorce is final I am happier than I have been in many years.

I lurked in here quite a bit and read the advice to contact Dr. Bruce and did so. He was quite negative about my chances so I’m kinda devastated right now. Anyone ever been told by him they had no chance but gotten cleared anyway, or should I just give up now? He’s such a great guy so I feel bad hoping he’s wrong but I’ve been wanting to do this a long time. Thanks in advance, everyone.
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My son has gone through the SSRI protocol with Michelle Sugerman (Steinmann Institute) in Salt Lake City and continues to see Dr.Goldenberg in Santa Monica, he is a HIMS psychiatrist ...There is hope, Dr. Sugerman was 100% wonderful and I can't recommend her enough. My son has been issued a SI ( special issuance) Medical Cert and will have to see Dr. Goldenberg 2 times a year for the next 5 years. Dr. Goldenberg in LA is also AMAZING. Worth every dime. There is hope!! It may just cost a ton of money.
 
Amy S said:
My son has gone through the SSRI protocol with Michelle Sugerman (Steinmann Institute) in Salt Lake City and continues to see Dr.Goldenberg in Santa Monica, he is a HIMS psychiatrist ...There is hope, Dr. Sugerman was 100% wonderful and I can't recommend her enough. My son has been issued a SI ( special issuance) Medical Cert and will have to see Dr. Goldenberg 2 times a year for the next 5 years. Dr. Goldenberg in LA is also AMAZING. Worth every dime. There is hope!! It may just cost a ton of money.
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Does he travel to see them both or do they do virtual meetings? Thanks!
 
Brad Z said:
One suggestion not mentioned is having a discussion with your regional flight surgeon. They're a surprisingly useful resource for potential medical certificate applicants. I'm not going to say they're going to give you a different answer from Dr. Chien, but they're a good source for an additional perspective to determine what the path to certification may be. Good luck.
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How would one go about doing that? Five years ago when dealing with an OSA SI I felt lucky when someone at the Aerospace Medicine region would answer the phone...
 
Bill Jennings said:
It still seems silly to me that someone can be deemed "unsafe" to operate a 1700# aircraft that for the most part flies far away from other vehicles yet the same "unsafe" person can buy a 7000# 15pax van, fill every seat, and barrel down the interstate at 85mph doorknob to doorknob with other road users. Makes NO sense to me...
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Or in this OP's case "put needles millimeters from people’s cervical spinal cords". I know I have read in one of these where a serving police officer was looking at a denial. Insanity.
 
Amy S said:
My son has gone through the SSRI protocol with Michelle Sugerman (Steinmann Institute) in Salt Lake City and continues to see Dr.Goldenberg in Santa Monica, he is a HIMS psychiatrist ...There is hope, Dr. Sugerman was 100% wonderful and I can't recommend her enough. My son has been issued a SI ( special issuance) Medical Cert and will have to see Dr. Goldenberg 2 times a year for the next 5 years. Dr. Goldenberg in LA is also AMAZING. Worth every dime. There is hope!! It may just cost a ton of money.
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for everyone’s info Dr Shugarman Phd was removed from the federal HIMS list in ~2017-18 yet continues to prime herself as a HIMS Psychologisr....
 
idahoflier said:
How would one go about doing that? Five years ago when dealing with an OSA SI I felt lucky when someone at the Aerospace Medicine region would answer the phone...
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Email or call the number number associated with your RFS in the link I provided above. I have found them to be very responsive.
 
idahoflier said:
Or in this OP's case "put needles millimeters from people’s cervical spinal cords". I know I have read in one of these where a serving police officer was looking at a denial. Insanity.
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Exactly. Anesthesia is so similar to flying that we very frequently have airline pilots speak at our conferences regarding the importance of simulation, checklists, and so on. I have done anesthesia for over ten years at major children’s hospitals and have never had a single issue with dealing with the stresses of that job. But the FAA says I can’t fly a Cessna. Fantastic.
 
Is there a reason that the SSRI decision path 2 is not an option?
 
woopig said:
Maybe. Feels weird to start taking a medication I don’t need just to please the FAA, but it’s not a bad thought.
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I agree, it's injecting the FAA between you and your doctor in order to appease bureaucracy. But you could take the minimum possible dose of one of the 4 approved SSRI's and then pursue the medical. And hopefully down the road we can continue to reform the FAA.
 
bbchien said:
for everyone’s info Dr Shugarman Phd was removed from the federal HIMS list in ~2017-18 yet continues to prime herself as a HIMS Psychologisr....
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According to the internet, Dr. Michelle Sugerman PhD and Dr. Ryan Shugarman MD are two different people. Both claim to be HIMS. Which was removed from the list?
 
Echo419 said:
I agree, it's injecting the FAA between you and your doctor in order to appease bureaucracy. But you could take the minimum possible dose of one of the 4 approved SSRI's and then pursue the medical. And hopefully down the road we can continue to reform the FAA.
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Actually, I remember now. If you’re on path 2 you can’t have ever been on two psych drugs at once. He gave me Bupropion to offset the sexual side effects of the SSRI and very occasional Ativan for the really bad moments. So I guess the precludes path 2. Can’t get a break.
 
EB06D39C-CE8B-404A-9AE5-76B4F67C5BA8.jpeg
Truth.
“As the Federal air surgeon I love using my power to enact moronic policy’s that just cause pilots to spend thousands of dollars when not necessary. The real reason is because the HIMS program makes so much money and is extremely corrupt”
 
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Lindberg said:
According to the internet, Dr. Michelle Sugerman PhD and Dr. Ryan Shugarman MD are two different people. Both claim to be HIMS. Which was removed from the list?
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Shugarman is a psychiatrist in Alexandria (and male). Sugerman is a neuropsychologist and female. Since Bruce said PhD, psychologist, and used female pronouns, I assume he was referring to the latter (notwithstanding using the wrong spelling of Sugarman).
 
flyingron said:
Shugarman is a psychiatrist in Alexandria (and male). Sugerman is a neuropsychologist and female. Since Bruce said PhD, psychologist, and used female pronouns, I assume he was referring to the latter (notwithstanding using the wrong spelling of Sugarman).
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What's the point of guessing?
 
The lady Ph.D. pscyhologist in Utah was removed (? why?)......unknown.
Dr R. Sugerman MD in Alexandria does GOOD work.
 
Just wanted to say thanks again for all the input, everyone. It turns out he never diagnosed me as generalized anxiety disorder after all; he just called it “situational anxiety.” But this all seems to messy anyway, I think I’ll just get that motorcycle and maybe revisit this in a few years. Thanks again, great community you guys have here.
 
MacFly said:
I’d love to see evidence that it actually has been effective in making the skies safer and that it’s worth the careers that it has ended.
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There is no good evidence that the requirement for a 3rd class medical has improved the safety of flight.

Some weak indirect evidence which the FAA cites based on alcohol that it could help and some suggestive evidence based on sport pilots that it does not.

But nothing close to good evidence it improves things. Historically, the 3rd class medical evolved from the initial requirement first put in place by the CAA when it was formed based on the medicals given to military pilot candidates to select the most fit to fly candidates.
 
If you dream of flight, do it. The only difference for you is ~$50 hr to have a cfi sitting in the right seat whenever you want to fly. Plenty of young, hour seeking CFIs around who would be happy to do nothing and sit there, building hours after your a competent pilot. Take the lessons, learn to fly, do everything but the solo and check ride. After a year or two revisit getting a medical. Don't let the FAA crush this dream.
 
G-force said:
If you dream of flight, do it. The only difference for you is ~$50 hr to have a cfi sitting in the right seat whenever you want to fly. Plenty of young, hour seeking CFIs around who would be happy to do nothing and sit there, building hours after your a competent pilot. Take the lessons, learn to fly, do everything but the solo and check ride. After a year or two revisit getting a medical. Don't let the FAA crush this dream.
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That’s fantastic advice, man. Thank you.
 
G-force said:
If you dream of flight, do it. The only difference for you is ~$50 hr to have a cfi sitting in the right seat whenever you want to fly. Plenty of young, hour seeking CFIs around who would be happy to do nothing and sit there, building hours after your a competent pilot. Take the lessons, learn to fly, do everything but the solo and check ride. After a year or two revisit getting a medical. Don't let the FAA crush this dream.
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That fits with my attitude on the matter. I didn't get my medical until I needed it and many people said I was foolish and "wasting my money on lessons for nothing" if I couldn't pass the medical; I should get the medical first. I would have definitely done it anyway even if I couldn't get a medical. Well worth it for the experience.
 
Salty said:
That fits with my attitude on the matter. I didn't get my medical until I needed it and many people said I was foolish and "wasting my money on lessons for nothing" if I couldn't pass the medical; I should get the medical first. I would have definitely done it anyway even if I couldn't get a medical. Well worth it for the experience.
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I’m really liking this line of thinking. I have been working non stop since Covid since I can’t really travel. No time off, no trips. So let’s say I spend $7,000 learning to fly next year and still don’t get the medical. No question it would suck, but it certainly wouldn’t be the worst money I’d spent. Hell, I took my son to Disney World when he was three (note to new parents: do not do this). He got a cold the day we left, was super grumpy, and slept all day. Now that’s the worst $7,000 I’ve ever spent.
 
You lose a lot of freedom having to fly with an instructor in right seat, but most of the experience is still the same.You can still fly the entire flight without assistance from the right seat, unless you need it. You'll be limited, but it can still be a lot of fun.
 
Salty said:
You lose a lot of freedom having to fly with an instructor in right seat, but most of the experience is still the same.You can still fly the entire flight without assistance from the right seat, unless you need it. You'll be limited, but it can still be a lot of fun.
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Plus, if you later decided not to get the medical and just go for Sport Pilot, all you would need would be some transition training into an LSA, your solo flights, and a checkride.
 
Salty said:
You lose a lot of freedom having to fly with an instructor in right seat, but most of the experience is still the same.You can still fly the entire flight without assistance from the right seat, unless you need it. You'll be limited, but it can still be a lot of fun.
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You can also just make friends with other pilots who are happy to sit in the right seat while you fly. No need to always pay an instructor.
 
Lindberg said:
You can also just make friends with other pilots who are happy to sit in the right seat while you fly. No need to always pay an instructor.
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One of the guys who is getting me into this just finished his CFI and flies all the time, so I think you make a great point.
 
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