Any hope for medical?

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woopig

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woopig
Hi guys. 43 year old dude here who has been excited to finally go through with this dream, but I’m learning now I might not clear the medical. I won’t bore you with the details, summary is I have been on SSRI’s for quite short term. Was associated with a major stressor (daughter had two heart surgeries, divorce). This most recent time (divorce), I was on an SSRI and Ativan to sleep. I have been off everything for months and now that the divorce is final I am happier than I have been in many years.

I lurked in here quite a bit and read the advice to contact Dr. Bruce and did so. He was quite negative about my chances so I’m kinda devastated right now. Anyone ever been told by him they had no chance but gotten cleared anyway, or should I just give up now? He’s such a great guy so I feel bad hoping he’s wrong but I’ve been wanting to do this a long time. Thanks in advance, everyone.
 
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What was your diagnosis? Why was Dr. Bruce pessimistic? There are other hard-case AMEs. What part of the world are you in?
 
Lindberg said:
What was your diagnosis? Why was Dr. Bruce pessimistic? There are other hard-case AMEs. What part of the world are you in?
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Generalized anxiety disorder. He said if (do they?) they searched years back and saw three different SSRI’s over the past eight years or so, they would consider it lifelong disease that is untreated. Then if you go back to the pathway of single dose approved SSRI (so that you can say it is being treated), on that pathway you can’t have a history of taking two at once. He literally added Bupropion only because the Vibryyd killed my, um, manliness and I wasn’t going to put up with that! So technically it was two at once but only because Bupropion offsets the sexual side effect.

So I guess my only hope is that they don’t search the non controlled medication database that far back. The other two times I took an SSRI are longer back than three years so the way I read it I don’t have to disclose those visits, correct?

I have zero history of anything depression, suicide, substance abuse. Nothing. Just a dude with a stressful job (I’m a doctor) who was having a rough time at home here and there.
 
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Read this:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...process/exam_tech/item47/amd/antidepressants/

I wouldn’t anticipate an issue obtaining a class 3 medical even if you were on an SSRI, although it might require a Special Consideration or Special Issuance. If you have been off for >60 days, you should be fine. Stay away from Ativan and other benzodiazepines.

Don’t be discouraged. At the very worst you might have to jump through some hoops, but it will be worth it. Nothing you describe in your history should warrant a denial.

Good luck.
 
Just be aware that if you are denied a medical then you can’t ever go the sport pilot route, so be very sure that’s what you know what you’re doing before you attempt to get the medical.
 
woopig said:
I just I could do this as last resort, just seems so limiting.
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I flew on sport pilot privileges for the two years before BasicMed went into effect. It's limiting, for sure, but I was surprised by how much fun I had, including flying from my home base in the San Francisco area all the way to the Canadian border. I had to lose weight, and I learned to pack light!
 
A) Dr. Chien doesn't think your chances are good, then they probably are not good. He would know better than about anyone else here.

B) Sport pilot is limiting in the sense that, say, driving a two seat British sports car from the 1950's is limiting. Not much room. Not really that fast. But, unless you are determined to be a truck driver, ain't a bad way to go.
 
Palmpilot said:
I flew on sport pilot privileges for the two years before BasicMed went into effect. It's limiting, for sure, but I was surprised by how much fun I had, including flying from my home base in the San Francisco area all the way to the Canadian border. I had to lose weight, and I learned to pack light!
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Oh, so you can use sport pilot to transition to basic Med. Didn’t realize that. Don’t know much about it but basic Med seems way less limiting. Does any flight school that does PPL also do spirt pilot?
 
Basic med will not help you in that you must have held a class three previously to go basic med. since you have not had a class three, you would have to obtain one before you could go basic med.
 
Just want to reiterate Salty’s post.

Salty said:
Just be aware that if you are denied a medical then you can’t ever go the sport pilot route, so be very sure that’s what you know what you’re doing before you attempt to get the medical.
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if you do go for the 3rd class and are denied, you’ll be limited to ultralights, gliders, and balloons.

now there are motorgliders, but other than that, you’ll be way more restricted than if you went sport Pilot.
 
I think the reason you have a major uphill if not impossible battle is that on paper you have “recurrent disease”. The FAA doesn’t like that. I think it would be better if you would have just stayed on one for long period or time-“controlled”.
If one of the elite docs that makes a good living off of guys like you sez that it probably can’t be done-then it probably can’t be done. Certainly not with out GREAT cost.
 
Stay away from a MedExpress form for ANY reason. Know the outcome BEFORE you fill one out...
 
Kelvin said:
Stay away from a MedExpress form for ANY reason. Know the outcome BEFORE you fill one out...
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i have one filled out up to the point where it asked for last three years of records. I saved it at that point and logged out.
 
Lindberg said:
You might also try Stephen Kramer in North Texas: https://pilot-medical-center.business.site/

Whoever you go to, you're going to set up a consultation, not an exam. You do not want to do the exam until after all the ducks are in a row and you're sure you will pass.
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This seems like sound advice. I’m not an AME but I am physician as well, and SSRIs and antidepressants in general are fairly ubiquitous medications. If you’ve made it through 5 decades of life and haven’t dealt with depression related to life stressors, you are either lying or incredibly lucky. Good AMEs try to facilitate your medical certification and are not searching for reasons for denial.
 
AA5Bman said:
Ugh. My sympathies. I hate the medical process/system.
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I was just telling a buddy of mine about this. It always seems that the FAA looks at everyone and tries to see how to keep them out of the air right? Get you paranoid about any little thing that might come up.
 
Cervieres said:
This seems like sound advice. I’m not an AME but I am physician as well, and SSRIs and antidepressants in general are fairly ubiquitous medications. If you’ve made it through 5 decades of life and haven’t dealt with depression related to life stressors, you are either lying or incredibly lucky. Good AMEs try to facilitate your medical certification and are not searching for reasons for denial.
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Ha. Fair enough. Not one shred of depression through all this. Anxiety about my daughter’s heart surgeries and about how my kids and finances would be after divorce. All of that is resolved now and I couldn’t be better. I put needles millimeters from people’s cervical spinal cords every day and have a reputation for being extremely calm when **** goes bad. So I’m not the guy they think I am on paper, but I certainly respect what they’re trying to do. Just feels like I’m being unfairly lumped in. But not sure there’s much I can do.
 
woopig said:
Ha. Fair enough. Not one shred of depression through all this. Anxiety about my daughter’s heart surgeries and about how my kids and finances would be after divorce. All of that is resolved now and I couldn’t be better. I put needles millimeters from people’s cervical spinal cords every day and have a reputation for being extremely calm when **** goes bad. So I’m not the guy they think I am on paper, but I certainly respect what they’re trying to do. Just feels like I’m being unfairly lumped in. But not sure there’s much I can do.
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You are not alone. Doesn’t make you feel any better, but I don’t think any of us are fond of the process.
 
woopig said:
Ha. Fair enough. Not one shred of depression through all this. Anxiety about my daughter’s heart surgeries and about how my kids and finances would be after divorce. All of that is resolved now and I couldn’t be better. I put needles millimeters from people’s cervical spinal cords every day and have a reputation for being extremely calm when **** goes bad. So I’m not the guy they think I am on paper, but I certainly respect what they’re trying to do. Just feels like I’m being unfairly lumped in. But not sure there’s much I can do.
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Agree with other posters that if Dr. Chien is not optimistic, chances are not good. You could try with one of the others for a second opinion though.

In the meantime, go light sport or start flying gliders. While LSA is somewhat limiting, it is not really too bad if your goals are flying for pleasure and not a career. Additionally, there are strong hints that the category of light sport aircraft may be considerably broadened in the near future.

So how about starting the process for light sport? That may cheer you up.

Or go take a glider lesson - most people enjoy that.

What part of the country are you in?
 
woopig said:
Generalized anxiety disorder. He said if (do they?) they searched years back and saw three different SSRI’s over the past eight years or so, they would consider it lifelong disease that is untreated. Then if you go back to the pathway of single dose approved SSRI (so that you can say it is being treated), on that pathway you can’t have a history of taking two at once. He literally added Bupropion only because the Vibryyd killed my, um, manliness and I wasn’t going to put up with that! So technically it was two at once but only because Bupropion offsets the sexual side effect.

So I guess my only hope is that they don’t search the non controlled medication database that far back. The other two times I took an SSRI are longer back than three years so the way I read it I don’t have to disclose those visits, correct?

I have zero history of anything depression, suicide, substance abuse. Nothing. Just a dude with a stressful job (I’m a doctor) who was having a rough time at home here and there.

edit: in Arkansas. Will travel for an understanding AME.
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You do realize Dr Bruce really did write the protocol for SSRI special issuance?

If he says it’s not issuable and you don’t try for it, Sport Pilot and other ratings are available to you.

If you try for a FCIII with an AME you’ll get deferred and most likely denied. That closes the door forever.
 
TCABM said:
You do realize Dr Bruce really did write the protocol for SSRI special issuance?

If he says it’s not issuable and you don’t try for it, Sport Pilot and other ratings are available to you.

If you try for a FCIII with an AME you’ll get deferred and most likely denied. That closes the door forever.
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No, I didn’t. Guess I’m screwed. Thank you for the info.
 
woopig said:
i guess I was hoping that since two of the three episodes were over four years ago they wouldn’t come out during discussion. Do they really search for non controlled prescriptions that far back? I’m not going to lie, of course, but they are only asking for the last three years of medical records.
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The form asks for the last three years of doctor visits, but it also asks about any condition you have had "anytime in your life," and how it was treated, IIRC.
 
TCABM said:
You do realize Dr Bruce really did write the protocol for SSRI special issuance?

If he says it’s not issuable and you don’t try for it, Sport Pilot and other ratings are available to you.

If you try for a FCIII with an AME you’ll get deferred and most likely denied. That closes the door forever.
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So he shouldn't get a second opinion?
 
woopig said:
i have one filled out up to the point where it asked for last three years of records. I saved it at that point and logged out.
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At least review it and write down/gather all the information it requests. That will facilitate discussion with an AME.
 
The problem is if you are on and off meds the FAA assumes you have a chronic problem and is not going to believe that you will not relapse if you're off meds (PATH I).
 
flyingron said:
The problem is if you are on and off meds the FAA assumes you have a chronic problem and is not going to believe that you will not relapse if you're off meds (PATH I).
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I do get that. I mean I understand, I really do. I just feel like watching your three year old daughter undergo two open heart surgeries in ten days and then having the girl you’ve loved for 15 years asking you to leave the house should be considered acute events and not lifelong events. I do understand the argument that I sound like a guy who would need them again if life throws something else at me, and we all know it will. But at that point I would report the new meds and go from there, seems to me.
 
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Palmpilot said:
The form asks for the last three years of doctor visits, but it also asks about any condition you have had "anytime in your life," and how it was treated, IIRC.
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Either it doesn’t or I’m just not at that part yet. I can answer honestly and say “yes” to anxiety on the “have you ever page” and them list the psychiatrist I saw during divorce and hope they just assume those two are one and the same. In a way they are, they are just ignoring the SSRI four years ago during her surgery. That was through my primary care doctor.
 
woopig said:
i guess I was hoping that since two of the three episodes were over four years ago they wouldn’t come out during discussion. Do they really search for non controlled prescriptions that far back? I’m not going to lie, of course, but they are only asking for the last three years of medical records.
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The faa doesn’t search for anything. The only way that they will know you were on ssri’s is if you disclose that information on the medexpress form. They do NOT do a search of anyone’s records when applying for a medical certificate. The faa are a bunch of scumbags. If you disclose any of Your depression history they will **** you.
 
woopig said:
I do get that. I mean I understand, I really do. I just feel like watching your three year old daughter undergo two open heart surgeries in ten days and then having the girl you’ve loved for 15 years asking you to leave the house should be considered acute events and not lifelong events. I do understand the argument that I sound like a guy who would need them again if life throws something else at me, and we all know it will. But at that point I would report the new meds and go from there, seems to me.

Are they truly going to search the database to find non controlled medications from four and eight years back? To me it all seems to hinge on this. Only one event is within the three year mark during which they require medical records. Does that not help?
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Unlikely they will search and find it. But bear in mind that lying on the FAA medical form is a Federal felony. If they catch you they will pull all the certificates they have issued in addition to any prosecution you might face. Most of the people who have faced that have either had an accident or incident (in which case they dig deeply) or been caught up in some sweeps they did cross-checking against disability claims.

There are several people on this board who would say that if you are presently doing well just lie as the FAA’s “have you ever in your life” questions are truly obnoxious. I am not sure I would advise that as the penalties if caught are severe. But I view this as a personal choice.

Additionally you have now discussed this on a publicly searchable forum and your identity from your username could likely be discoverable with legal discovery.

Why not just start training for light sport or gliders and seek a second medical opinion and deal with all this later? The training for light sport segues directly into private pilot if you can go that route as does training for gliders.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Unlikely they will search and find it. But bear in mind that lying on the FAA medical form is a Federal felony. If they catch you they will pull all the certificates they have issued in addition to any prosecution you might face. Most of the people who have faced that have either had an accident or incident (in which case they dig deeply) or been caught up in some sweeps they did cross-checking against disability claims.

There are several people on this board who would say that if you are presently doing well just lie as the FAA’s “have you ever in your life” questions are truly obnoxious. I am not sure I would advise that as the penalties if caught are severe. But I view this as a personal choice.

Additionally you have now discussed this on a publicly searchable forum and your identity from your username could likely be discoverable with legal discovery.

Why not just start training for light sport or gliders and seek a second medical opinion and deal with all this later? The training for light sport segues directly into private pilot if you can go that route as does training for gliders.
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fair enough. For the record I would never lie. I’m not that kind of guy but mainly I just don’t want to give the life insurance company any reason to keep my money from my kids.

Here is what I am saying. The form says have you ever been treated for anxiety. I will answer yes because that’s the truth. It then asks for medical records for the past three years. Only the medications related to divorce anxiety fall within that time range. And I am not even on those any more. Now if the examiner asks “have you been treated for anxiety any times in addition to during the divorce” then I will have to tell the truth. But I am hoping he sees yes to anxiety and yes I went to a psychiatrist for divorce related anxiety during the last two years and leaves it at that. Am I being naive or is this a possibility?
 
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What are your flying goals/aspirations? Do you wanna fly cross country? Wanna fly in the flight levels? Multi-engine? Complex?

You can have a lot of fun as a Light Sport pilot, I am training to be one now. What’s not to like? You are in the air burning money.... It’s a blast. Personally I live in a valley at 6000’ surrounded by mountains 10,000-12,000’ high..... I don’t wanna be flying at night :)

As many have said, if you try and get denied you will never fly.

Maybe you need to rethink your flying goals so you can actually get to fly.
 
Utah-Jay said:
What are your flying goals/aspirations? Do you wanna fly cross country? Wanna fly in the flight levels? Multi-engine? Complex?

You can have a lot of fun as a Light Sport pilot, I am training to be one now. What’s not to like? You are in the air burning money.... It’s a blast. Personally I live in a valley at 6000’ surrounded by mountains 10,000-12,000’ high..... I don’t wanna be flying at night :)

As many have said, if you try and get denied you will never fly.

Maybe you need to rethink your flying goals so you can actually get to fly.
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just wanted to fly cross country with a couple of buddies and such. But maybe that’s a pipe dream. Thanks.
 
woopig said:
The form says have you ever been treated for anxiety. I will answer yes because that’s the truth. It then asks for medical records for the past three years.
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These two areas of the form are completely distinct. The instructons for Item 18 (the "Do you now or have you ever" block) state:

"Each item under this heading must be checked either "yes" or "no." For all items checked "yes," a description and approximate date of every condition the applicant has ever been diagnosed with, had, or presently has, must be given in the EXPLANATIONS box."

Every "YES" in Item 18 must be explained fully, not just for the last three years.

Edit to add a link to a PDF with Item-by-Item instructions for completing the form.
 
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