Amphibs FAR Minutiae

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Mtns2Skies

Final Approach
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Mtns2Skies
So, we haven't had a pedantic argument in a while...

So me, CP-ASEL, CP-ASES. And my wife PP-ASEL. Say I'm renting an amphib. What parts of the flight would she be legally able to log? Everything except when we're physically on the water?

When would the class of aircraft switch from land to sea?

Picture attached for plane porn.
PXL_20201021_164210308.jpg
 
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ok...got my wind back. Whew!
Mtns2Skies said:
So me, CP-ASEL, CP-ASES. And my wife PP-ASEL. Say I'm renting an amphib. What parts of the flight would she be legally able to log? Everything except when we're physically on the water?
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That’s pretty much it, I’d guess.
 
Are you really wanting to know about logging or how much of the flight she could legally do?

If logging is the real goal, I’m not aware of any official guidance on the crossover point. Your way would be fine but the general consensus of all the float guys I know is that it all gets logged as float time when there is water involved somewhere along the way.
 
From the SPA FAQ, question #1:

1. Can I fly an amphibious seaplane without a seaplane rating?

You can exercise the privileges of "airplane - single engine (or multi-engine) land" to operate an amphibious single-engine (or multi-engine) seaplane from hard surface runways. You cannot land that same airplane in the water, without a seaplane rating.
 
I considered (for a very short time) getting seaplane certificated to fly in Alaska. I was told by a friend, that has a float plane business in Alaska, for insurance purposes I would need 100 hours float time.

He then told me that after getting the appropriate certificate, I could fly an amphibious plane 100 hours and never get the floats wet and that would satisfy the insurance folks for his company. To me that is rather strange thinking.

I always thought that if all 4 wheels on he floats were able to turn freely, cross wind landings on terra firma would be a breeze......
 
I don't know why it's that surprising. You can fly 100 hours in any plane and not log a landing.
 
Zeldman said:
He then told me that after getting the appropriate certificate, I could fly an amphibious plane 100 hours and never get the floats wet and that would satisfy the insurance folks for his company. To me that is rather strange thinking.
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That's pretty much standard, and weird, in the insurance industry. There are airplanes that I meet the insurance requirements for (time in type usually), where I have never even landed the airplane and only have maybe a total of a few minutes at the controls. Reason? I'm a CFI. I fly in a lot of airplanes where the owner is looking for something like "avionics upgrade training" or "autopilot refresher" or an IPC or something like that. It may be a model I have never flown before, but then I fly with them for 5 hours or 10 hours or whatever, of me showing them how to use the equipment, and now I have 5 or 10 hours in type without ever touching the controls. If I wanted to be insured in that airplane, that may be all the insurer cares about.

I just looked - there's a model of aircraft where I have 68 hours of PIC time and have never landed it. I'm sure that's far from the most out there.
 
flyingron said:
I don't know why it's that surprising. You can fly 100 hours in any plane and not log a landing.
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It's mostly strange to think that anyone would give you credit for hours in a seaplane when you are flying it on wheels. Insurance, employers, etc. But I guess it beats the alternative of having to log amphib time separately from seaplane time to be insurable in a floatplane just because it happens to have wheels.
 
I got tail dragger time in aircraft that I've never landed. Equally silly, but unless someone asks "did you land the thing?" it's still time.
 
flyingron said:
I got tail dragger time in aircraft that I've never landed. Equally silly, but unless someone asks "did you land the thing?" it's still time.
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And, if you logged that time prior to 4/1/91, you don't need a tailwheel endorsement.
 
like insurance forms that ask how much tailwheel and retract time I have. I have over 1000 hours in my glider which is both retract and tailwheel. A typical flight is 4-6 hours so 1000 hours is probably less than 200 cycles of the gear. This year I flew 70 hours in 14 flights.
The tailwheel is fixed, it has no steering.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
brcase said:
like insurance forms that ask how much tailwheel and retract time I have. I have over 1000 hours in my glider which is both retract and tailwheel. A typical flight is 4-6 hours so 1000 hours is probably less than 200 cycles of the gear. This year I flew 70 hours in 14 flights.
The tailwheel is fixed, it has no steering.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
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I don’t think you can count a glider as tail wheel aircraft time. All my glider time is in taildragger gliders, but I don’t have a tail wheel endorsement.
 
iamtheari said:
It's mostly strange to think that anyone would give you credit for hours in a seaplane when you are flying it on wheels. Insurance, employers, etc. But I guess it beats the alternative of having to log amphib time separately from seaplane time to be insurable in a floatplane just because it happens to have wheels.
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Same for retracts...How much retract time is spent doing takeoffs and landings? That’s the only part that really matters, but the total retract time is what counts.

same for...
 
Salty said:
I don’t think you can count a glider as tail wheel aircraft time. All my glider time is in taildragger gliders, but I don’t have a tail wheel endorsement.
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You don’t need an endorsement for tailwheel gliders. 61.31(i) is specific to airplanes.

Logging, on the other hand, is perfectly legit. If anybody (insurance company, for example) wants specifically tailwheel airplane information, they need to ask for it.
 
Zeldman said:
I considered (for a very short time) getting seaplane certificated to fly in Alaska. I was told by a friend, that has a float plane business in Alaska, for insurance purposes I would need 100 hours float time.

He then told me that after getting the appropriate certificate, I could fly an amphibious plane 100 hours and never get the floats wet and that would satisfy the insurance folks for his company. To me that is rather strange thinking.

I always thought that if all 4 wheels on he floats were able to turn freely, cross wind landings on terra firma would be a breeze......
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Flying floats in Alaska is far more work than fun. Loading dead animals for those hunters you took to a cabin last week, sucks. Then there are those 100 lb fish boxes. Over gross??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Bear tours are the way to go.
 
Salty said:
I don’t think you can count a glider as tail wheel aircraft time. All my glider time is in taildragger gliders, but I don’t have a tail wheel endorsement.
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You are correct you do not need a tailwheel endorsement for a Tailwheel Glider.

However it is definitely tailwheel Aircraft time. It is not tailwheel airplane time.
It just depends on what the insurance asks for.
same with the difference between retract time and complex or they could say retract airplane time. A retractable helicopter is retractable aircraft time.

AOPA has decent article recently about whey insurance rate are going up. In that article the point out that part of the issue is the people writing the policies are seldom pilots so they don’t really know the difference.

Brian
 
A friend of mine who was a U-2 pilot wanted to fly my Navion. The insurance company wants 25 hours of retract time. I asked him if the wheels fall off your plane if it counts as retract time.
 
flyingron said:
A friend of mine who was a U-2 pilot wanted to fly my Navion. The insurance company wants 25 hours of retract time. I asked him if the wheels fall off your plane if it counts as retract time.
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Did he ever accidentally land without the chase cars?
 
iamtheari said:
Did he ever accidentally land without the chase cars?
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He says that the U-2 is the only plane that runs off the runway to the upwind side. Amusingly, I get a text from my daughter one day. I say, "it's a U-2". She says nope, an ER-2. She was riding in the chase car because her experiment (she's an atmospheric scientist) was onboard that flight.
 
iamtheari said:
Did he ever accidentally land without the chase cars?
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When I was stationed at Edwards AFB in the late 90's, the NASA ER-2's would always land without a chase car. Wasn't until a deployment of mine that I found out the USAF uses chase cars (and got to ride in one, which was fun).
 
Htaylor said:
Bear tours are the way to go.
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What do the Bear's typically like to tour? The coast, rivers, mountain vistas? And how do you keep them from attacking you if the weather isnt that great?


:D
 
ChemGuy said:
What do the Bear's typically like to tour? The coast, rivers, mountain vistas? And how do you keep them from attacking you if the weather isnt that great?


:D
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They'll take what they can get. They don't carry much money so they always want to trade for salmon they've caught. I usually have to tell them no as I don't like salmon. I'd take them halibut fishing, but they tell me they don't like halibut and they get seasick. As for weather, I can see you've never heard of Alaska VFR. Published mins are unpublished. Billy knows. :D:p

We also offer bare tours, but not for bears. :D
 
Did you marry that pretty girl I saw you with in Watertown? Well done! Congratulations!
 
Htaylor said:
We also offer bare tours, but not for bears. :D
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I missed this part....

But when I was in Kantishna flying tours around Mt McKinley (or whatever they call it now) there was a lot of girls that wanted the ''northern experience''....
 
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