Alec Baldwin shoots and kills cinematographer.

I’ve watched a bunch of this lawyer’s videos. I’m subscribed to his “LegalEagle” channel. He seems bright, articulate and honest about the intricacies and vagaries of the law. I’ve not yet had the time to watch this one, but I will. He supports his positions with case law and deep dives into the background and history of today’s laws. Of course much is still speculative in this case, but I still expect his take to be informed, informative and entertaining. But not necessarily right in all aspects.
 
FastEddieB said:
I’ve watched a bunch of this lawyer’s videos. I’m subscribed to his “LegalEagle” channel. He seems bright, articulate and honest about the intricacies and vagaries of the law. I’ve not yet had the time to watch this one, but I will. He supports his positions with case law and deep dives into the background and history of today’s laws. Of course much is still speculative in this case, but I still expect his take to be informed, informative and entertaining. But not necessarily right in all aspects.
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I did. He speculates on all the possible legal angles. He doesn’t claim to know what happened or what charges if any will be brought against whom but outlines all the possibilities as well as possible civil actions. Very informative.
 
Salty said:
I never said he was wrong. I simply pointed out the logical fallacy.
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No, you merely stated the obvious:
Salty said:
Just because someone has more training or experience in a subject than you do, does not mean every opinion they have on the subject is correct.
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Everyone with training in an area is occasionally wrong. A circumstance outside of our experience or knowledge occurs, we make our best guess, and learn from our mistakes and become more experienced or expert. People with more training or experience in a field are more often correct because of that experience, and training which allows them to learn from other's mistakes.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
No, you merely stated the obvious:

Everyone with training in an area is occasionally wrong. A circumstance outside of our experience or knowledge occurs, we make our best guess, and learn from our mistakes and become more experienced or expert. People with more training or experience in a field are more often correct because of that experience, and training which allows them to learn from other's mistakes.
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Wrong. This is PoA. Whoever is the most dense, ignorant and belligerent wins, training or no training. There’s no room for learning or increasing knowledge here, and certainly no opportunity to consider an opposing viewpoint. Those never have merit and are posited by morons. ;)
 
It's a little closer to the Arlo Guthrie theory - "I'm not proud. Or tired. So I'm going to keep singing." Like the campaign for lobbying for drunks flying. Just easier to let it go. With respect to lawyers, though, not to offend the group, but it's been my experience that they rarely agree on anything. I mean, they principally get paid to disagree with each other. Not taking a shot, just an observation.
 
FastEddieB said:
I’ve watched a bunch of this lawyer’s videos. I’m subscribed to his “LegalEagle” channel. He seems bright, articulate and honest about the intricacies and vagaries of the law. I’ve not yet had the time to watch this one, but I will. He supports his positions with case law and deep dives into the background and history of today’s laws. Of course much is still speculative in this case, but I still expect his take to be informed, informative and entertaining. But not necessarily right in all aspects.
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Ok, so I gave him his 1/100th of a cent of youtube kickbacks and listened to his sales pitch for some other educational video thing that I will now definitely not buy.

Despite his display of lawyer props as the green lamp, stubbly beard, the fake books and the expensive but garish suit, he didn't provide any of those lawyerly things you claim he provides in his other videos. All I could hear is some fast talking without punctuation or structure stringing together information from the popular press. His legal 'analysis' didn't go beyond anything you could find with google. No references like jury instructions, legal commentary, existing case law, appellate decisions on somewhat similarly situated cases. He doesn't even touch on the obvious workmans comp aspect of the case. He was just filling minutes with babble in an obvious attempt to harvest eyeball minutes for his channel.

I didn't pay for it and I received exactly what I paid for.

And I am still most definitely not buying the educational video service he was hawking.
 
Albany Tom said:
With respect to lawyers, though, not to offend the group, but it's been my experience that they rarely agree on anything. I mean, they principally get paid to disagree with each other. Not taking a shot, just an observation.
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I have made the same point myself. For every plaintiff's lawyer, there's a defense lawyer telling the judge that he's wrong. Ok, that's a bit of an overstatement, but it's not far off.
 
Just think if this has been an actor that came from a background of guns vs being opposed to them and less knowledgeable.

The firearms "experienced" actor would most likely never have actually pointed it directly at any person even during the filming of the movie. And had they made this same mistake they would have been held to much higher standards because they had the extra training or experience. Or more directly - because they probably would have been a gun owner.

If Baldwin had been a serious (as in safe and well trained) gun owner I really don't think this would have happened. He most likely would have broken the chain.

Its a bummer that people who are generally opposed to firearms don't at least seek out understanding them and safety surrounding them.

If he was really goofing off (not confirmed) trained or not, he should be partially accountable - especially being a producer. Just my opinion.

If he was following the script, director and all plans to the best of his knowledge then its so darned gray.
 
If you knew his family background…he did come from a gun family…dad was an expert marksman and taught rifle marksmanship at the local high school…also a marine who was medically discharged for being wounded in an accident…
 
Warlock said:
If you knew his family background…he did come from a gun family…dad was an expert marksman and taught rifle marksmanship at the local high school…also a marine who was medically discharged for being wounded in an accident…
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A safety mindset is not a heritable trait. Alec and the armorer could have learned a lot about firearm safety from their fathers. Tragically, they didn't.
 
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Alec Baldwin among 'Rust' cast, crew sued by gaffer over accidental shooting incident on set
Baldwin, Hannah Gutierrez Reed and Dave Halls were among those named in Serge Svetnoy's lawsuit

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-cast-crew-sued-gaffer-rust-shooting

According to documents obtained by Fox News, Serge Svetnoy, the key gaffer on the indie-western film, filed a lawsuit against the trio and others claiming the defendants' alleged negligence has caused him severe emotional distress....​
 
Palmpilot said:
Alec Baldwin among 'Rust' cast, crew sued by gaffer over accidental shooting incident on set
Baldwin, Hannah Gutierrez Reed and Dave Halls were among those named in Serge Svetnoy's lawsuit

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-cast-crew-sued-gaffer-rust-shooting

According to documents obtained by Fox News, Serge Svetnoy, the key gaffer on the indie-western film, filed a lawsuit against the trio and others claiming the defendants' alleged negligence has caused him severe emotional distress....​
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Alec Baldwin causes me “severe emotional distress”. Can I get in on this suit?

Cheers
 
Palmpilot said:
claiming the defendants' alleged negligence has caused him severe emotional distress....
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Yeah, I wish it was that easy.

All these periods of sunshine followed by darkness we have makes me emotionally distressed, so all y'all owe me money to make me happy.... :rolleyes: :lol::lol:
 
GaryM said:
A safety mindset is not a heritable trait. Jack and the armorer could have learned a lot about firearm safety from their fathers. Tragically, they didn't.
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so could Alec. Tragically, he had to learn the hard way.

There is blame to go around. But if there is an accident chain involving the airplane builder who has a defect, the mechanic who doesn’t spot it and the pilot who does aerobatics in an uncertified plane and pulls the wings off, we don’t blame the builder or the mechanic for the accident.
 
bflynn said:
so could Alec. Tragically, he had to learn the hard way.

There is blame to go around. But if there is an accident chain involving the airplane builder who has a defect, the mechanic who doesn’t spot it and the pilot who does aerobatics in an uncertified plane and pulls the wings off, we don’t blame the builder or the mechanic for the accident.
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Agreed. And I meant Alec, of course. Must have been thinking of his Jack Ryan character when I typed it.
 
bflynn said:
There is blame to go around. But if there is an accident chain involving the airplane builder who has a defect, the mechanic who doesn’t spot it and the pilot who does aerobatics in an uncertified plane and pulls the wings off, we don’t blame the builder or the mechanic for the accident.
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We don't? Why don't we? If they're all negligent, they're all negligent.
 
PaulS said:
George gets it.

George Clooney Reacts To Rust’s Fatal Shooting, Reflects On Brandon Lee Tragedy | Cinemablend
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I agree that it is a tragedy. I agree that every instance of an actor or crewmember being killed by a negligent discharge is a tragedy. However, the first two rules of gun safety would have prevented this and other such accidents:

1: Treat ALL guns as if they are loaded at all times.
2: NEVER point a gun at anything you do not wish to destroy.

Part of the problem is that so many actors (that handle guns for their movies) have no experience with firearms and are quite hostile to those that want to teach them basic gun safety. I have seen shooters on gun-ranges reprimanded for pointing their firearms up after shooting. Such attention to safety is second nature to those in the firearm community. It seems to be a lost art among the "Hollywood Elites" that launch campaigns for (newer, stricter) gun laws on a regular basis.
 
GaryM said:
Yes, he does! Quoting George in that link:
"Every single time I’m handed a gun on a set, every time. They hand me the gun, I look at it, I open it, I show it to the person I’m pointing it to, show it to the crew. Every single take."

That's gun safety 101, as many have pointed out on this thread.
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Yep, and it's not like Rust is the first movie ever made with a gun. Hollywood has been doing these forever.
 
s35pilot said:
Yep, and it's not like Rust is the first movie ever made with a gun. Hollywood has been doing these forever.
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Hollywood is it’s own worst enemy. With all this emphasis on gun safety, they still relentlessly teach the public that the proper way to hold a gun is to always have your finger on the trigger and be oblivious to which way the muzzle points. People that know nothing about guns, like little kids, or Thomas Binger, absorb what they see over a lifetime of movies and shows. It’s the biggest safety failure related to firearms ever committed.
 
GaryM said:
That's gun safety 101, as many have pointed out on this thread.
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Well there was this from the other side of his mouth ...

"I’ve been on sets for 40 years. And the person that hands you the gun, the person responsible for the gun is either the prop person or the armorer. Period."
 
Daleandee said:
Well there was this from the other side of his mouth ...

"I’ve been on sets for 40 years. And the person that hands you the gun, the person responsible for the gun is either the prop person or the armorer. Period."
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I took that to mean that the armorer is responsible for the gun, exactly as stated. Responsible for secure storage, maintenance, selecting the right one for the scene, etc. But EVERYONE involved is responsible for gun safety. The armorer checks, the actor checks (as Clooney stated), anyone who will be downrange checks (Clooney said he shows it is safe to those people, I'd personally insist on checking myself).
 
Rushie said:
Hollywood is it’s own worst enemy. With all this emphasis on gun safety, they still relentlessly teach the public that the proper way to hold a gun is to always have your finger on the trigger and be oblivious to which way the muzzle points. People that know nothing about guns, like little kids, or Thomas Binger, absorb what they see over a lifetime of movies and shows. It’s the biggest safety failure related to firearms ever committed.
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I'm starting to pay attention to when actors have their finger on the trigger and when they don't. No conclusions as yet.

Another example of people confusing movies and TV with reality is the school that got a kid taken into custody by police because they thought his school project was a time bomb because it included a digital clock display, which Hollywood time bombs often have, but serve no purpose on real time bombs.
 
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Palmpilot said:
I'm starting to pay attention to when actors have their finger on the trigger and when they don't. No conclusions as yet.

Another example of people of people confusing movies and TV with reality is the school that got a kid taken into custody by police because they thought his school project was a time bomb because it included a digital clock display, which Hollywood time bombs often have, but serve no purpose on real time bombs.
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https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IncrediblyObviousBomb
 
Rushie said:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IncrediblyObviousBomb
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This is Older Than Television; if you look at animated cartoons from the early to mid 20th Century, one of the more common mayhem-related props is a bomb—black, bowling-ball-sized, with burning fuse stuck in the top, and possibly the word BOMB on it in big happy white letters.
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The first time I drew a sketch on the white board to show how the thermal discharge on our airplane fire bottles worked, I realized it looked WAY too much like a cartoon bomb.:rolleyes:

So now I make sure not to erase it. ;)
 
Rushie said:
Hollywood is it’s own worst enemy. With all this emphasis on gun safety, they still relentlessly teach the public that the proper way to hold a gun is to always have your finger on the trigger and be oblivious to which way the muzzle points. People that know nothing about guns, like little kids, or Thomas Binger, absorb what they see over a lifetime of movies and shows. It’s the biggest safety failure related to firearms ever committed.
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Nothing new, though. Track down an old Roy Rogers flick and watch Dale Evans’ gun handling. Terrifying. I hope Roy never let her hold a loaded sixgun.
 
Rushie said:
Hollywood is it’s own worst enemy. With all this emphasis on gun safety, they still relentlessly teach the public that the proper way to hold a gun is to always have your finger on the trigger and be oblivious to which way the muzzle points. People that know nothing about guns, like little kids, or Thomas Binger, absorb what they see over a lifetime of movies and shows. It’s the biggest safety failure related to firearms ever committed.
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the much bigger problem is anyone who thinks hollywood is teaching things. or maybe I should say the problem is people thinking they are learning things from movies. it's one of my gripes when people say "that movie was nothing like the way it really happened in real life"......uh, that's because IT'S A MOVIE. it's for ENTERTAINMENT, not education. if I learned things from movies then I'd think there really is a guy in a scream mask stabbing people, and that if I'm scared I should never walk backwards, and that the good guy (me, obviously) always gets the girl, and there are super hero people who can get shot then get up and walk away as their bullet would heals before our eyes. I mean really, hollywood is 'teaching' people about gun finger safety?
 
Robert Gee said:
How can you tell a live round from a dummy?
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A live round knows it can be impossible
A live round knows there are no absolutes
A live round knows Lee Marvin didn't really apologize
A live round hasn't posted its righteous indignation to this thread.
 
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