Lndwarrior
Cleared for Takeoff
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Gary
Aircraft Shoulder Harnesses: Are You Wearing Them Incorrectly?
- Thread starter Lndwarrior
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455 Bravo Uniform
Final Approach
Thanks for sharing that. My 182 used to have front seat shoulder harnesses mounted on the floor behind the seat. Before I flew it home I had the local mechanic install BAS harnesses that mount in the ceiling.
With retractables like that, lap belt needs to be low and tight across the lap (just like the airline flight attendants say), otherwise retractors tend to pull them up, similar to Cirrus.
For my racecar I used to exhale and cinch those MFers down tight, but that was just a few seconds down the quarter-mile.
With retractables like that, lap belt needs to be low and tight across the lap (just like the airline flight attendants say), otherwise retractors tend to pull them up, similar to Cirrus.
For my racecar I used to exhale and cinch those MFers down tight, but that was just a few seconds down the quarter-mile.
Lap belt should be low and tight on the waist. THe shoulder hardnesses should not be yanking up on it.
Also make sure that the belt is straight and untwisted from its attach point. A common failure is that the belt is folded over because the attach has swivelled down. The NTSB showed me a picture of a crash and pointed that out as a cause of the injury/death that came.
Also make sure that the belt is straight and untwisted from its attach point. A common failure is that the belt is folded over because the attach has swivelled down. The NTSB showed me a picture of a crash and pointed that out as a cause of the injury/death that came.
In a half-hour (or more) road race, the harness would loosen slightly. When I wasn’t busy, like flat out on a long straight, I’d give the harness a tug or two to keep it cinched as tight as possible.
In race cars we use a 5-point or 6-point harness, with one or two anti-submarine straps, to keep the lap belt low across the lap.
bcool
Pre-takeoff checklist
When I rented a Cirrus SR-20, it seemed like no matter how tightly I cinched the lap belt it always climbed up my abdomen over time.
I don't know what I was doing wrong but it always did that. Somehow the lap belt must have loosened to allow it to rise up. This happened not only to me, but my passengers as well.
I don't know what I was doing wrong but it always did that. Somehow the lap belt must have loosened to allow it to rise up. This happened not only to me, but my passengers as well.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
my belly is too large to wear the belt that high.....I think I'm good. 
Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
Great video
Daleandee
Final Approach
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Dale Andee
I guess I'm a bit surprised that this is a problem as my instructor taught me the importance of keeping the lap belt low & snug. Also as you pointed out, there is the importance of making sure the belts are not twisted. When we do passenger briefings this needs to be made clear.
It is also needed that passengers know how to quickly loosen the belts (in mine it is "grab the tabs and pull upward") and how to quickly unbuckle them in case there is ever a need for them to do so. I ask them to buckle and unbuckle the belt as I watch them. Before take off it is the pilots responsibility to make certain all belts are properly in place ...
See? Beer is good for you!
Pinecone
En-Route
The serious aerobatic guys have ratcheted seat belts to REALLY cinch them tight.
Another thing I see with some 3 point harnesses is that the shoulder harness attachment ends up too high so the belt ends near the middle of the body. This can lead to the torso twisting over the shoulder harness and the upper body not being properly secured.
Another thing I see with some 3 point harnesses is that the shoulder harness attachment ends up too high so the belt ends near the middle of the body. This can lead to the torso twisting over the shoulder harness and the upper body not being properly secured.
Unless you're Dale Earnhardt. Rather than feeding the belt through the seat he wrapped it outside the seat. So it didn't pull as vertically as it should have.
Honestly theres few things I felt more comfortable in than being tight in my seat.
Although 'submarining' is not what killed him he did flirt with disaster by disregarding several safety devices/procedures. I was at that event in Daytona. What a turn of emotions...I was so happy for Michael Waltrip getting the win then seeing the slow ambulance heading to Halifax on the jumbotron and the look on Michael's face as Kenny whispered the bad news in his ear was chilling. The mass of people exiting the trams, once the rumors of his death were confirmed, looked like walking zombies on 'The Night of the Living Dead'. That night sucked.
I was crewing for a SRF driver at an SCCA double national in Texas that weekend, and on the drive home Sunday afternoon we were listening to the race on the radio. We took two podiums that weekend, a win and a third, so we were on a high but quickly came down when we heard about DE.
The following weekend I drove in my own SAARC event at Sebring, and the track had the flag at half-staff. Going down one of the straights on the pace lap I could see the flag and I remember it being a very somber reminder.
Pinecone
En-Route
Shoulder harness should NOT pull vertically. It should go straight back or no more than 15 degrees up or down from the shoulder. If it leaves at too low of an angle, when crash, it puts a vertical load on the spine leading to spinal injuries. That is why modern aircraft harnesses attach tot he ceiling.
What killed Dale was hyperextension of the neck. The harness holds the body to the seat, but the head is free to move forward. The G forces on the head including the helmet causes the head to move forward and stretch the neck, leading to spinal injury. The HANS device (or similar) that you see every race driver wear these days is to prevent that hyperextension. The HANS Device main page as some clips of with and without the device and what happens to the head and neck.
Hans Device
www.hansdevice.com
Pinecone
En-Route
I used to race SRF.
When? Ever run in the southeast?
Ed Haywood
En-Route
Yep. Hooker 7 point harness with double lap belts is the standard for competition. Here's mine. Note ratchet on right side of front lap belt. Advanced and unlimited pilots that do a lot of outside work sometimes get a 2nd ratchet on the upper belt.
The ratchet makes a big difference when rolling, especially on an aircraft with a slow roll rate. I used to have a 5 point harness with no ratchet and it was really challenging getting slinged around from knife edge to inverted and back. I crank the lap belt down during runup, and tighten it again when setting up the airplane prior to acro.
My shoulder straps are fixed, not retracts. I keep a bit of slack in the shoulder straps, so I can lean forward a few inches to reach the fuel shutoff, but not enough for my face to reach the panel.
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In the formula cars I raced we had 6 point restraints and a HANS device- two shoulder, two lap, two anti-sub straps from the floor on each side of the seat insert to the center buckle. In addition we had wrist restraints that tied into the anti-sub belts. I would have a mechanic or engineer snug the shoulder belts after I did prior to rolling out the pits. I would also snug the shoulder and lap belts on the warm-up lap and during any caution. It seems like I could never get them tight enough even though they were very snug. In one race at Texas World Speedway (College Station....the house that Foyt built) I came off of the high banked front straight onto the apron for the approach to turn one...a very abrupt transition. I snapped a Heim joint on the lower upright on the right rear corner and proceeded to go on an agricultural excursion, hitting a drainage ditch at a 45deg angle which caused me to roll 3 times. I distinctly remember, during the first roll, that my arms were flailing out of the cockpit and I thought my shoulder straps were loose and my wrist restraints were not tight enough. Once I stopped motion and was able to get my bearings I realized that my wrist restraints were adjusted to the proper length and all other restraints were nice and tight. Definitely realized some stretch under the G forces in that crash. I can see how ratchet straps in an aerobatic plane might seem like overkill but, I would imagine they are a necessity in high G maneuvers.
Ed Haywood
En-Route
Not an issue with positive G, no matter how high. They just smoosh you into the seat harder.
Negative G and side loads are the issue. When you are inverted, any slack in your lap belts changes your sight line and the position of the controls relative to your body. To fly precisely, you want your hips to stay in exactly the same spot throughout all maneuvers. Ratchet does that.
rockwoodrv9a
Pre-takeoff checklist
This is a good reminder. I have a 5 point Crow system but my crotch strap is not tight enough according to the video. I will make sure it is adjusted before my next flight. Lowering risk of injury is always a good idea. Thanks
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
I have the wonderful Hooker harnesses in the 140 and inertia reel type harnesses in the Mooney.The Hookers are incredibly comfortable proven effective. The inertia reel belts are obviously comfortable, but I have no confidence they would have any effectiveness in a crash. I am looking into a better solution for the Mooney.
455 Bravo Uniform
Final Approach
Why do you doubt the inertial reel type in your plane wouldn’t work? Aren’t they like automotive belts? Are they BAS?
Pinecone
En-Route
2003 - 2010 Summit Point mainly, but also VIR and Nelson Ledges.
Have my one and only win at VIR.
Pinecone
En-Route
One other MAJOR thing about harnesses is, how old are yours? When I bought my 1986 Mooney, I checked the data tags and the harnesses were made in .....
You guessed it, 1986 (this was in 2022).
In SCCA racing, harnesses have to be replaced every 5 years, no matter what.
Look at your harnesses. If there is any fading of the color, they should be replaced.
Here is an article I wrote for Mooney Flyer online magazine - https://themooneyflyer.com/issues/2024-AprTMF.pdf
You guessed it, 1986 (this was in 2022).
In SCCA racing, harnesses have to be replaced every 5 years, no matter what.
Look at your harnesses. If there is any fading of the color, they should be replaced.
Here is an article I wrote for Mooney Flyer online magazine - https://themooneyflyer.com/issues/2024-AprTMF.pdf
I’ve been to VIR once. Nice track, great facility. Never made it to Summit or Nelson.
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MBDiagMan
Final Approach
Great question! They are just much lower quality than the Hookers in the Cessna are. They come unbuckled in flight sometimes. You tighten them up and they don’t seem to stay tight. They just don’t give me a sense of security that’s anywhere close to how I feel flying with the Hooker harness.
Maybe part of it is my respect for Jack Hooker. I got to know him through the Cessna 140 club and have much respect for him and confidence in him.