Aging B-52 Fleet

Sounds like the piston GA fleet. :)
 
Rusty? I don't think so! Good for a headline though I guess.

What's sad is the BUFFs that have to be cut up (in the open so Russian satellites can verify) in storage due to the agreement with Russia.
 
They took out the ashtrays? Sheesh... :rolleyes:

dsc5106.gif
 
I flew G model BUFFs, all now in the bone yard. Only H models are left. We used to go low level in the BUFF, now they are only high altitude.

G model, water injected jet engines for extra takeoff thrust. Low level at 400ft AGL or lower and 320knts planned. Celestial and radar navigation. GPS did not exist. I have 1500 hrs in the BUFF before I flew the BONE.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Which did you like better?
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B-1, hands down. At the time, a much better radar system, INS and terrain following. The BUFF did not do terrain follow, but hand flown terrain avoid.
Smoother flight low level than the BUFF was at altitude, it's the wing loading.
Plus I like the Aces II ejection seats and the ability to eject upwards.

B-1 low level planned at 540KGS with the wings back. Speed is life.
B-52 carried 51 Mk82 internal and external, B-1 carried 84 all internal.
B-52 had a wider variety of weapons load out. But the B-1 is catching up.

I last flew the B-1 in 1997, we still did not have GPS. They have a lot more weapons capability now and can laser designate their own targets.

B-52G, 1500hrs, Nov '84 to Aug 87
B-1B, 1000hrs, Dec '87 to Mar '97,
B-1 training missions were a lot shorter, we were based a lot closer to the training areas and we went through them faster. Later in my career I was in "Test", putting new weapons and tactics into the program, so we did not fly as much or as long.
 
Not slow down low. Not slow at all, and you might expect a more informed reporter in Seattle. . .
 
Wow, 320 kts at 400 AGL or less. That sounds fun!
 
BillTIZ said:
Try 540KGS nap of the earth at night, on TF with NVGs. B-1 is at home low level.
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Even cooler. Thanks for sharing your flight experience, and thank you for your service.

Edit: if you can and have the time (not sure what restrictions exist on these things), I'd sure be interested in a thread about what it's like flying these birds and some stories.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
Even cooler. Thanks for sharing your flight experience, and thank you for your service.

Edit: if you can and have the time (not sure what restrictions exist on these things), I'd sure be interested in a thread about what it's like flying these birds and some stories.
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+142,000! :yes:
 
Best quote from the article

Ground crews scouring the aging frames for rust often find graffiti in hidden nooks by previous generations; a recent discovery, perhaps commenting on the planes’ age, featured primitive cave-style animal paintings.
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Try 540KGS nap of the earth at night, on TF with NVGs.
Click to expand...

How close to the stick/yoke does the pilot keep their hands when doing that? Although I suppose at that speed and altitude it would not matter. If something went wrong by the time you figured it out it would be Jesus telling you what happened. :)
 
Note that the B-52 hasn't been a static design over the years. There aren't (or are very few) of the early versions of it still in use.

The B-52 is remarkable in that it's a versatile platform that is pretty much paid for, which is why it continues in light of the specialized replacements that were designed to put it out of business.

It's sort of like the U-2 which continues to outlive all the platforms that were supposed to replace it.
 
From the article

The next potential replacement — the Long Range Strike Bomber, which has yet to be designed — is decades away, so the B-52 is expected to keep flying until at least 2040. By then, taking one into combat will be the equivalent of flying a World War I biplane during the invasion of Iraq in 2003
 
BillTIZ said:
B-1, hands down. At the time, a much better radar system, INS and terrain following. The BUFF did not do terrain follow, but hand flown terrain avoid.
Smoother flight low level than the BUFF was at altitude, it's the wing loading.
Plus I like the Aces II ejection seats and the ability to eject upwards.

B-1 low level planned at 540KGS with the wings back. Speed is life.
B-52 carried 51 Mk82 internal and external, B-1 carried 84 all internal.
B-52 had a wider variety of weapons load out. But the B-1 is catching up.

I last flew the B-1 in 1997, we still did not have GPS. They have a lot more weapons capability now and can laser designate their own targets.

B-52G, 1500hrs, Nov '84 to Aug 87
B-1B, 1000hrs, Dec '87 to Mar '97,
B-1 training missions were a lot shorter, we were based a lot closer to the training areas and we went through them faster. Later in my career I was in "Test", putting new weapons and tactics into the program, so we did not fly as much or as long.
Click to expand...

You were an EWO / WSO guy correct? Same duties on each airframe or do they differ significantly?
 
When I was at Wright Patterson AFB in the late 60's, the 17th Bomb Wing was operational there. My office was in the direct flight path of the main runway.

When the Wing scrambled in an alert in the dog days of summer, my phone calls had many interruptions as the water injected 52's and 135's came screaming over the building straining to gain altitude streaming black smoke and mega db's of noise.

Cheers
 
Are you sure about the load Bill? I've never been around the G, but I think I remember our D's on Guam carrying 100+ Mk82s. It's been a while (45 years) so I may be remembering wrong.

BillTIZ said:
B-1, hands down. At the time, a much better radar system, INS and terrain following. The BUFF did not do terrain follow, but hand flown terrain avoid.
Smoother flight low level than the BUFF was at altitude, it's the wing loading.
Plus I like the Aces II ejection seats and the ability to eject upwards.

B-1 low level planned at 540KGS with the wings back. Speed is life.
B-52 carried 51 Mk82 internal and external, B-1 carried 84 all internal.
B-52 had a wider variety of weapons load out. But the B-1 is catching up.

I last flew the B-1 in 1997, we still did not have GPS. They have a lot more weapons capability now and can laser designate their own targets.

B-52G, 1500hrs, Nov '84 to Aug 87
B-1B, 1000hrs, Dec '87 to Mar '97,
B-1 training missions were a lot shorter, we were based a lot closer to the training areas and we went through them faster. Later in my career I was in "Test", putting new weapons and tactics into the program, so we did not fly as much or as long.
Click to expand...
 
flyingron said:
Note that the B-52 hasn't been a static design over the years. There aren't (or are very few) of the early versions of it still in use.

The B-52 is remarkable in that it's a versatile platform that is pretty much paid for, which is why it continues in light of the specialized replacements that were designed to put it out of business.

It's sort of like the U-2 which continues to outlive all the platforms that were supposed to replace it.
Click to expand...

The only ones left are the last variant - the "H". They are somewhat like George Washington's hatchet. The head has been replaced, the handle has been replaced, yet still George Washington's hatchet. Those airframes have seen a lot of upgrades, rebuilds, and mod programs over the years.

Realistically, if you're looking for a long distance bomb truck or a stand off missile platform, the aerodynamics and structures for that mission were reasonably well understood back in 195X when the BUFF was designed. Even if you designed a new airplane for the same mission, it wouldn't look *that* much different. Much as the 787 looks a lot like a 707, other than the engines...
 
JohnAJohnson said:
Are you sure about the load Bill? I've never been around the G, but I think I remember our D's on Guam carrying 100+ Mk82s. It's been a while (45 years) so I may be remembering wrong.
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Google B-52 Big Belly
 
Clark1961 said:
Google B-52 Big Belly
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Yep, that's it. Thanks

During 1966, the B-52Ds received the “Big Belly” modification which provided for denser loading of the bomb bay, increasing the internal weapon load from 27 to 84 500 lb bombs. With the 24 carried on wing pylons, this gave it a total capacity of 108, or 54,000 pounds—compared to 17,600 pounds for the B- 17G of World War Two.
 
Velocity173 said:
You were an EWO / WSO guy correct? Same duties on each airframe or do they differ significantly?
Click to expand...

In the B-52G I was the Navigator / Bombardier. The B-52 carried two Navs, plus an EWO.

When I was in the B-1, I was the Offensive Systems Officer (OSO), or the Nav/Bomber. The EWO was the Defensive Systems Officer or DSO. They combined the positions into WSO after I left and the individuals were eventually dual qualified for either seat. It still takes two to run the systems, plus the two pilots (stick shakers) up front.
 
RobertSubnet said:
How close to the stick/yoke does the pilot keep their hands when doing that? Although I suppose at that speed and altitude it would not matter. If something went wrong by the time you figured it out it would be Jesus telling you what happened. :)
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The pilots were not far from the stick, or actually resting their hand on stick and throttle as it moved. Throttles did not move on their own, but if the TF set hiccuped or did not like something it saw there was an instantaneous tone in the headset and automatic commanded pitch up to fly away from the ground. The pilots needed to toggle off (trigger pull first decent) plus full throttle, establish pitch and climb then trigger pull to second decent to disconnect the commanded pitch up and level off at the predetermined IFR safe altitude.

Clear the systems, figure out what caused the pitch up if you did not know already, and then reengage to Terrain Follow command and the system would pitch over to resume terrain following flight at the commanded set clearance plane. Normally start at about 1000ft AGL and then step it down to 400-500 as approved for the current route. The system was capable of 200ft AGL on TF.
 
JohnAJohnson said:
Yep, that's it. Thanks

During 1966, the B-52Ds received the “Big Belly” modification which provided for denser loading of the bomb bay, increasing the internal weapon load from 27 to 84 500 lb bombs. With the 24 carried on wing pylons, this gave it a total capacity of 108, or 54,000 pounds—compared to 17,600 pounds for the B- 17G of World War Two.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:
The G model belly was smaller for more fuel above the bomb bay.
Std nuc loadout was 4 gravity, 8 SRAM in the bay and 12 ALCM on the wings.
 
At least there are a few of us old B52 crew dogs .. I do not miss the 12 hour flights from Guam to VietNam. 200 missions and 2000 hours 1968-1974 as an EWO in D's and G's with lots of bumpy low level was easier when we were younger. I much prefer my 172 .....
 
patrick wentworth said:
At least there are a few of us old B52 crew dogs .. I do not miss the 12 hour flights from Guam to VietNam. 200 missions and 2000 hours 1968-1974 as an EWO in D's and G's with lots of bumpy low level was easier when we were younger. I much prefer my 172 .....
Click to expand...

I was in HS then. Started flying the G in 1984 going through "RTU" at Castle AFB.
 
patrick wentworth said:
At least there are a few of us old B52 crew dogs .. I do not miss the 12 hour flights from Guam to VietNam. 200 missions and 2000 hours 1968-1974 as an EWO in D's and G's with lots of bumpy low level was easier when we were younger. I much prefer my 172 .....
Click to expand...

I can fathom very few more frightening jobs than riding in the tube of a BUFF in Vietnam (particularly in that timeframe). Thanks for your service sir!
 
BillTIZ said:
In the B-52G I was the Navigator / Bombardier. The B-52 carried two Navs, plus an EWO.

When I was in the B-1, I was the Offensive Systems Officer (OSO), or the Nav/Bomber. The EWO was the Defensive Systems Officer or DSO. They combined the positions into WSO after I left and the individuals were eventually dual qualified for either seat. It still takes two to run the systems, plus the two pilots (stick shakers) up front.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I watching "By Dawns Early Light" the other night trying to picture the differences between the two. Seemed like one guy was defense ECM and the other a navigator. Had another guy operating the tail gun.
 
B52 crew was Pilot, Co-Pilot: Radar Navigator, Navigator: Electronics Warfare Officer, Gunner.

Prior to the G model Gunner was in the Tail and could see SAMs ~3-6 oclock very well which is why you hear him call out position and height.

G model and after, Guns sat upstairs next to EWO and ran the tail gun using radar (neither could see out, positions have no windows) both use CRTs.

Electronic countermeasures were being improved and the early models got the most advanced equipment as they were the big belly mod planes. The Gs were in the process of being upgraded when Linbacker started. Unfortunately all the upgrade equipment to fully equip Gs was loaded on a C5 (we were told) and it had to be dumped on the way to Guam because of a mechanical issue. Lost roommate and some good friends due to that and the well documented pi** poor staff planning (which was corrected by the aircrew staff after day 3 by those with skin in the game).

While jinking to avoid SAMs was limited since we were cells of 3 ships in pretty close proximity and the BUFF was not known to be agile, the air was absolutely flooded with fast movers from AF, Marine and Navy laying Chaff trails, Jamming radars, and doing Mig and SAM Suppression. Linebacker II was an all out effort from all the services account, which is why we only lost 15 aircraft when the original plan was 25-50 % expected loss rate early on.
 
Crazy the number of sams they put in the air. The supply line to get them into Vietnam must've been quite long if they're launching than many a day.
 
Roughly 300 SAM sites ~1500 Sa2 fired in the 11 days - 2 years setting up around Haiphong Harbor / Hanoi -- they had plenty of time to transport from Russia through China.
 
Velocity173 said:
Thanks. I watching "By Dawns Early Light" the other night trying to picture the differences between the two. Seemed like one guy was defense ECM and the other a navigator. Had another guy operating the tail gun.
Click to expand...

The EWO and Gunner in the G model sat upstairs facing aft, no windows. Upward ejection seats.

The two Navs sat downstairs, facing forward, no windows but did have FLIR and STV cameras to the outside world. Those ejection seats went down.
 
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