Age 75+ Insurance

At 76 my broker claims that it's not a problem, based on single engine fixed gear (C206), lots of time and currency in make and model and no claims over 50 years of experience. Rates have increased but not by much and don't seem to be age related.

Apparently in the Pawnee towing gliders, I'm insurable as long as the operations director approves it, which actually makes sense since he has direct or indirect oversight over every flight I make in that aircraft. A similar situation existed with the floatplane. I was fully insured to solo, carry passengers, and even instruct with a grand total of about three or four hours SES time, all based on the endorsement of the CFI (also a DPE) who did the check ride.

None of that deludes me into thinking that insurance cost won't dictate the end of either of those activities, which is why I have a Cub. :)
 
FastEddieB said:
It’s a consideration.

With no claims in 16 years, I’ve watched the insurance on my Sky Arrow go from just over $800 to about $1,400 last year. I’ll be 75 by my next renewal, and if it takes a big jump I may consider my options.
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I'm paying over 2K for my Skyarrow, up for renewal in Feb. I'll be 70 in March. Been flying my Skylark naked since the pandemic. Who are you insured with?
 
Country Flier said:
I for one don't blame the insurance companies...nearly every time I fly, I hear or see older pilots that don't belong in the sky mishearing/misunderstanding instructions, or worse. Do a search of youtube, and you can find dozens of examples...We've got to do a better job of weeding those guys out.
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Nearly everytime i fly I hear and see young pilots doing stupid, these younger untrained pilots are dangerous and should stay on the ground, lets see the 210 loaded to the max six people crash, after flying down a canyon, partial power and the pilot did nothing to try and fix the engine issue or fly the plane, this guy was not old. Trevor how is jail?, airline, coporate young guys making huge errors just read call back, how about Houston?, so the analogies by the OP are misleading, I know airline guys that should not be flying and they are not older, how many younger Cirrus pilots are crashing,or Bo' high performance airplanes with pilots with 300 hours crashing it is not just the older people it is all kinds age wise and all types of training, The ones that need to go are the ones with attitudes that are dangerous,and think they are the smartest one in the room. But you can not fix stupid
Insurance companies will use every excuse to charge more, they know we will pay, they also have knee jerk reactions when insuring, it does not matter the risk
 
strangebird said:
Nearly everytime i fly I hear and see young pilots doing stupid, these younger untrained pilots are dangerous and should stay on the ground, lets see the 210 loaded to the max six people crash, after flying down a canyon, partial power and the pilot did nothing to try and fix the engine issue or fly the plane, this guy was not old. Trevor how is jail?, airline, coporate young guys making huge errors just read call back, how about Houston?, so the analogies by the OP are misleading, I know airline guys that should not be flying and they are not older, how many younger Cirrus pilots are crashing,or Bo' high performance airplanes with pilots with 300 hours crashing it is not just the older people it is all kinds age wise and all types of training, The ones that need to go are the ones with attitudes that are dangerous,and think they are the smartest one in the room. But you can not fix stupid
Insurance companies will use every excuse to charge more, they know we will pay, they also have knee jerk reactions when insuring, it does not matter the risk
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Maybe try decaf...and the cases you named occur at all levels, but the confusion, slow responses and attitudes of thinking they know better come with age.
 
strangebird said:
Nearly everytime i fly I hear and see young pilots doing stupid, these younger untrained pilots are dangerous and should stay on the ground, lets see the 210 loaded to the max six people crash, after flying down a canyon, partial power and the pilot did nothing to try and fix the engine issue or fly the plane, this guy was not old. Trevor how is jail?, airline, coporate young guys making huge errors just read call back, how about Houston?, so the analogies by the OP are misleading, I know airline guys that should not be flying and they are not older, how many younger Cirrus pilots are crashing,or Bo' high performance airplanes with pilots with 300 hours crashing it is not just the older people it is all kinds age wise and all types of training, The ones that need to go are the ones with attitudes that are dangerous,and think they are the smartest one in the room. But you can not fix stupid
Insurance companies will use every excuse to charge more, they know we will pay, they also have knee jerk reactions when insuring, it does not matter the risk
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As said above, if there was money to be made, they would be in the business with older pilots to make it. Here's a couple of examples why they are not for you...both in their 80s (I checked before posting)


 
Here is a third...took me less than a minute to find these btw...and you don't personally hear or see young guys crashing every day, but YOU WILL hear guys like this every day....at least I do.

 
What hull value do you use? Falcon would only go to $50k when I went E-LSA. Plane “only” cost $75k in 2007, but they’re roughly double that now.
 
I sold my plane in August. went looking for another plane.
I found a "new" plane last month. 1946 Ercoupe, with pedals. Very low time, recently restored, only needed ADSB. Deal was done, travel plans set, money ready to transfer. I was really excited.
Two days before the scheduled deal, I contacted my insurance broker with the details for swapping coverage to the new plane.
Ten minutes later they called back and told me "coverage denied".
Twenty minutes later I get an email telling me my policy has been cancelled. No explanation of any kind.
I went to EVERY carrier in the US of A. No one will cover me because my policy was cancelled.
No insurance, I can't keep my hanger.
I'm renting again.

F@#$^&g insurance industry.
 
Shepherd said:
I sold my plane in August. went looking for another plane.
I found a "new" plane last month. 1946 Ercoupe, with pedals. Very low time, recently restored, only needed ADSB. Deal was done, travel plans set, money ready to transfer. I was really excited.
Two days before the scheduled deal, I contacted my insurance broker with the details for swapping coverage to the new plane.
Ten minutes later they called back and told me "coverage denied".
Twenty minutes later I get an email telling me my policy has been cancelled. No explanation of any kind.
I went to EVERY carrier in the US of A. No one will cover me because my policy was cancelled.
No insurance, I can't keep my hanger.
I'm renting again.

F@#$^&g insurance industry.
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Holy ****e. That sucks. You go from having a hangar and a new to you plane to renting? Sorry to hear that. And with no explanation? Kick a man while down
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I've asked if anyone has seen any data but.....crickets. Leaves a person wondering.
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The data is probably there if someone wants to do the work. I did a "quick" look at NTSB data from January 2023 for all accidents where the pilot age was available. I then used a pilot demographic table provided by the FAA in 2021 or 2022. Just from this small sample size the 70+ pilots had about the same accident rate as age ranges from 40-49, 50-59, 60-69, but while those previous groups had about the same number of pilots, the 70+ group pilot population was only ~ 55% as large as the other groups. So this very small sample size would seem to indicate accident rate goes up at 70+ years of age. I would guess the insurance companies look at ALL the data available to determine risk factor and premiums, but who knows?
 
idahoflier said:
The data is probably there if someone wants to do the work. I did a "quick" look at NTSB data from January 2023 for all accidents where the pilot age was available. I then used a pilot demographic table provided by the FAA in 2021 or 2022. Just from this small sample size the 70+ pilots had about the same accident rate as age ranges from 40-49, 50-59, 60-69, but while those previous groups had about the same number of pilots, the 70+ group pilot population was only ~ 55% as large as the other groups. So this very small sample size would seem to indicate accident rate goes up at 70+ years of age. I would guess the insurance companies look at ALL the data available to determine risk factor and premiums, but who knows?
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that's the kind of analysis that's needed - thanks for getting it rolling.
 
Structure your assets to be judgement-proof. Then "Fly Naked"!
 
Shepherd said:
I sold my plane in August. went looking for another plane.
I found a "new" plane last month. 1946 Ercoupe, with pedals. Very low time, recently restored, only needed ADSB. Deal was done, travel plans set, money ready to transfer. I was really excited.
Two days before the scheduled deal, I contacted my insurance broker with the details for swapping coverage to the new plane.
Ten minutes later they called back and told me "coverage denied".
Twenty minutes later I get an email telling me my policy has been cancelled. No explanation of any kind.
I went to EVERY carrier in the US of A. No one will cover me because my policy was cancelled.
No insurance, I can't keep my hanger.
I'm renting again.

F@#$^&g insurance industry.
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That's horrible. I can see making older pilots do some sort of screening periodically, but to flat out refuse to insure you, that's just wrong.

It's not like you're wanting to fly a PC-12 into a Bravo, that's a little old fly for fun VFR airplane.
 
charheep said:
Holy ****e. That sucks. You go from having a hangar and a new to you plane to renting? Sorry to hear that. And with no explanation? Kick a man while down
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Sounds like there's more to the story.
You really can't live without hull insurance on an Ercoupe? Get a liability-only policy. That will satisfy the airport.
 
What carrier cancelled you? I'd hate to have that happen with my Alon Aircoupe as I'm rapidly approaching that 75 mark.
Shepherd said:
I sold my plane in August. went looking for another plane.
I found a "new" plane last month. 1946 Ercoupe, with pedals. Very low time, recently restored, only needed ADSB. Deal was done, travel plans set, money ready to transfer. I was really excited.
Two days before the scheduled deal, I contacted my insurance broker with the details for swapping coverage to the new plane.
Ten minutes later they called back and told me "coverage denied".
Twenty minutes later I get an email telling me my policy has been cancelled. No explanation of any kind.
I went to EVERY carrier in the US of A. No one will cover me because my policy was cancelled.
No insurance, I can't keep my hanger.
I'm renting again.

F@#$^&g insurance industry.
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camorton said:
You really can't live without hull insurance on an Ercoupe? Get a liability-only policy. That will satisfy the airport.
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That would be my thought as well. I'm only 56, but from my experience hull is the most expensive part...
 
DJTorrente said:
Structure your assets to be judgement-proof. Then "Fly Naked"!
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It may be cheaper and certainly easier to just pay a higher premium than jumping through the hoops to properly structure your assets. At 70+ one has to start thinking "How many more years am I actually going to be flying"?
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
I am 78, plan to continue as long as I can pass the physical. No Basic Med for me because I sometimes fly for hire, requiring a Class II and random drug testing.
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I think that's great and didn't mean 70+ pilots need to be thinking about hanging it up. What I meant was, at 70+ is it worth the hassle and is it cheaper to spend the $ to restructure assets rather than pay a higher premium for 5, 10 or ... years?
 
idahoflier said:
I think that's great and didn't mean 70+ pilots need to be thinking about hanging it up. What I meant was, at 70+ is it worth the hassle and is it cheaper to spend the $ to restructure assets rather than pay a higher premium for 5, 10 or ... years?
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In my case, I sold my airplane and now just have liability insurance for when I fly non-owned airplanes. Ninety percent of the time I am in the trainers and covered by the flight school policy. I asked the business manager whether age would be a factor and she said no, they would be able to insure me as long as I met the legal requirements to instruct.
 
camorton said:
Sounds like there's more to the story.
You really can't live without hull insurance on an Ercoupe? Get a liability-only policy. That will satisfy the airport.
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People always think that liabilty policies are easier to get - they arent. Its a smaller portion of the total insurance poilicy, but if an insurance carrier denies covering your hull, they generally wont even offer liability as an option.
 
FastEddieB said:
What hull value do you use? Falcon would only go to $50k when I went E-LSA. Plane “only” cost $75k in 2007, but they’re roughly double that now.
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I have 70K hull, mine is still SLSA. Perhaps I've underestimated the value. I too, have thousands of hours over decades, never filed a claim. Insurance is going to go up as my wife will be learning to fly in it. Perhaps I should have taken up raising chickens, Oh, wait..........
 

This popped up, incident by Harrison Ford.
 
squincher said:
Sometimes I make observations, or even (gasp) decisions, without a double blind study of the matter.
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Gotcha. I bet the insurance companies and governments have a more complete data set than you.
 
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If your insurance declines to issue hull insurance they probably will not insure a liability-only policy. If your 75+ you may find no one will insure a liability-only policy. Some states allow drivers to purchase a surety bond instead of an auto insurance policy for the car insurance requirement, this might work for aircraft with a airport that requires insurance to remain in a hangar.
 
Sad part of this is it seems all the youngers want to be youtube famous. I get it but watching quite a few of them, they seem are too busy in the cockpit , they play with their cameras, phones and pads and hardly look out the windscreen for other traffic but yet they are insurable where as the high time old pilot with their head on a swivel are kicked out the door.
 
the dude said:
Sad part of this is it seems all the youngers want to be youtube famous. I get it but watching quite a few of them, they seem are too busy in the cockpit , they play with their cameras, phones and pads and hardly look out the windscreen for other traffic but yet they are insurable where as the high time old pilot with their head on a swivel are kicked out the door.
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Perhaps, after an incident that implicates a great deal of liability, one of those insurance companies will choose to deny coverage to one of those YouTube celebrities on the grounds that their "personal use" policy specifically excluded commercial operations.
 
I don't understand the thought process behind ins companies decisions. Dad with some odd thousands of hours, PPSEL, MELTW. had no trouble with insurance at 83. Sold his 182, and cancelled his policy. Then at 85 couldn't get added to my policy as named pilot for the Cherokee. But, he was still covered under the "open pilot" clause, because he met all the requirements, no age discrimination.
 
bluerooster said:
I don't understand the thought process behind ins companies decisions. Dad with some odd thousands of hours, PPSEL, MELTW. had no trouble with insurance at 83. Sold his 182, and cancelled his policy. Then at 85 couldn't get added to my policy as named pilot for the Cherokee. But, he was still covered under the "open pilot" clause, because he met all the requirements, no age discrimination.
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He ISN'T covered by the open pilot warrantee, YOU were. He was still bare, unless he has a non- owned policy. The open pilot warrantee covers the owner if the PIC meets the warrantee.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
He ISN'T covered by the open pilot warrantee, YOU were. He was still bare, unless he has a non- owned policy. The open pilot warrantee covers the owner if the PIC meets the warrantee.
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What?
 
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