Advice for loooooong cross-country

murphey said:
Advantage…cherokee uses same tire on all three wheels. Publish your N number here so we can track your adventure and keep an eye out if you need assistance. Some here will object, your decision. At least make sure your wife keeps track.
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Omg is the Arrow different? Maybe that’s why my tires keep popping, wrong size?? I have a different nose vs main wheel, I think….
 
Sounds like an epic trip and lots of great advice hear as always. Me personally I like 3 hour legs even if the airplane has the endurance for more, and if I'm above 6k for more than 1 leg I run O2 so I don't feel like a$$ the next day. (I know I'm a wimp).

Most of all enjoy every single second of the journey. There will be stress, there will be decisions to make, be PIC and have an absolute blast !!! :cool:

PS pics on POA are mandatory
 
Here's a 4-part video on my solo trip a year and a half ago... California to North Carolina and back:
 
I’ve done a trip very much like this in my plane out to CA Central Valley, and back to Tennessee Valley, twice now.

Everyone here already covered the route planning: you’re basically gonna follow interstate 10 / Victor 16 for the Southern route. I did it in two days but that’s pushing it: flying sunrise to 1+ hour past sunset both days.
I’ll add a few things that I learned as a surprise that maybe not mentioned here:

The interior and western parts of Texas can be a vast unpopulated desert. Make sure you plan for fuel stops at a place that has facilities. I once landed at a small airport that had absolutely nothing around: no food options, just a self-serve pump; no place to refill my drinking water, so I actually ran low on drinking water (and couldn’t get dinner) after that airport stop.

similar to your plane, I was 200 hp and could not climb over the high mountains. If you’re flying single person, try to still be light so that you have good climb performance. I still think it’s worth the weight penalty if you can borrow an oxygen tank for the trip, as you’re flying in the higher elevations out west it’s not strictly necessary, but I felt it was really important to the trip to ward-off Fatigue, helps your mind stay sharp.

You really really need to be instrument current to do this trip safely. You’re gonna have a lot more options. You’re not going to fly through bad weather, but there may be a thin cloud layer you want to cut through.

There is a narrow corridor around ElPaso TX that is formed by the Restricted Areas to the north and the Mexico border to the south.

Also, the very busy airspace near Phoenix AZ and Edward’s AFB ,if you’re on an instrument flight plan you’ll have better options for routing.


Try to avoid flying at night, lots of desert areas with no ground lights and high mountains nearby. If your engine quits you can probably find a flat place to land, but nobody is around for hours.

I once attended a night flying lecture/ class and the instructor said “Try to route along major interstates, because if you crash the roads are how the first-responders get to you”… I’d say the same goes for flying over the desert: the roads are how you find other people, or how other people find you.

Bring some tools and a spare tube for your tire(s).
 
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Awesome stuff. Thanks again to everyone, especially for the trip-logs. I have read/watched all of them.

Just purchased the oxygen tank. I debated about using one but it's the smarter move since I'm planning to fly at 9,500 for at least the mountain portion of the trip and potentially most of it. I have a spare tire/tube, portable inflator, tools (but not Tools, sorry buddy!), oil and filter, GPS beacon, hand-held radio, small medical kit, and sundry comfort items. I'm sure there are some ferry pilots out there rolling their eyes at all my prep as they fly a rag-and-tube taildragger at 50ft AGL with just a twist-top bottle of water and a wrist-watch, but I'd rather be overprepared for this trip and laugh at myself afterwards than the other option. Haha!

I'm also going to take a closer look at the possibility of getting an IPC. It has been many years since I have flown IFR (prior to the magenta line sea-change) so it will take more than a couple of hours to get up to speed. Sounds like it will be worth the effort though!
 
Get a copy of “Flight of Passage.” Read it before or during your trip. Thank me later.

Oxygen is a game changer even if you never use it other than when required. Convective turbulence can go a long way up and getting above it makes all the difference in the world. Having a bottle of O2 available means you can fly at 13,500 or 14,500 (if your plane can get there) until the tank runs dry, or just feel better when you’re at 11,500 or 12,500 for a couple hours. You’ll definitely feel better on oxygen at 12,500 than you will in continuous moderate chop at 8,500.
 
On my trip, I used O2 anytime I was at or above 9k ft.

I don’t need it for short trips, but for a long cross-country I really believe it prevented fatigue.

Also I am prone to Migraines if I get dehydrated+fatigued, and was afraid a migraine would delay my trip: but breathing oxygen I felt great, I was able to keep going… flew almost 19 Hobbs hours over the two days.

I once read an article on aviation oxygen said “Oxygen is a legal Performance-Enhancing substance”. LoL.

Just remember on a long cross-country might be hard to get a refill en-route, need to be there when the mechanic is on-field (I was traveling on the weekend, so even though FBO said they could refill oxygen there was no mechanics around to do it).
 
ChopAndDrop said:
Just remember on a long cross-country might be hard to get a refill en-route, need to be there when the mechanic is on-field
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Especially in somewhat larger towns, see if there’s a welding supply place that will transfill them while you wait. My experience has been the smaller shops are more likely to do so - and it’s WAY cheaper than at any on-field resource I’ve seen. It’s $14 around me for the 15-22cf ones. They’ll even do medical cylinders if the right person is at the counter. Otherwise just tell them you understand oxygen is good for your aquarium fish…

For planning purposes I count on using about 100 psi per hour per person at around 10-11,000 and about 200 when up around 14 out of my 22cf tank. I check pressures every half hour with timed fuel tank changes. That’s using an oxymizer cannula, which is available on Amazon
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Otherwise just tell them you understand oxygen is good for your aquarium fish…
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If you show up in the courtesy cars I've experienced at some remote airports, nobody will even question that you are the kind of person who uses a small aluminum oxygen tank to keep your aquarium bubbly.
 
You’ve had better luck than me… the welding shops and dive shops won’t have anything to do with my oxygen tank. I tried… and the only place I can get filled is at my airport.
 
AvNavCom said:
Awesome stuff. Thanks again to everyone, especially for the trip-logs. I have read/watched all of them.

Just purchased the oxygen tank. I debated about using one but it's the smarter move since I'm planning to fly at 9,500 for at least the mountain portion of the trip and potentially most of it. I have a spare tire/tube, portable inflator, tools (but not Tools, sorry buddy!), oil and filter, GPS beacon, hand-held radio, small medical kit, and sundry comfort items. I'm sure there are some ferry pilots out there rolling their eyes at all my prep as they fly a rag-and-tube taildragger at 50ft AGL with just a twist-top bottle of water and a wrist-watch, but I'd rather be overprepared for this trip and laugh at myself afterwards than the other option. Haha!

I'm also going to take a closer look at the possibility of getting an IPC. It has been many years since I have flown IFR (prior to the magenta line sea-change) so it will take more than a couple of hours to get up to speed. Sounds like it will be worth the effort though!
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Don't forget some safety wire. To be honest, the only tools I've ever needed traveling in the Cherokee are a phillips & a flat head screwdrivers, 7/16 and 9/16 box wrench and the safety wire tool. 9/16 to take off the wheel pants (not needed on the Arrow) and the 7/6 is pretty much everything else. At the hangar, a complete set of tools that I rarely use. I've got a 12 or 15 qt plastic bin with cover (Target or Walmart) that holds the tools, a couple qts of oil, a small bottle (pint) of hydraulic fluid for the brakes (in a plastic bag), a filter, the spare tube, bunch of nitrile gloves (costco), some gallon ziploc bags, and a roll of paper towels. Stays in the baggage area all the time.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Check out the new fight school at the east end of Las Cruces (KLRU) for self serve fuel. When leaving, expect a really, really flat climb-out if you’re taking off any time past maybe 10:00. And expect lots of bumps and mountain waves going east of there.
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Frost Aviation (above flight school) has cheapest gas in the region. East side of Las Cruces (KLRU). There's a restaurant there on site, but closed Sundays

Below: If using a tent, make sure it closes completely ... you're traveling at near peak rattle snake season ... not too many tarantulas anymore ...

Just north of Tuscon is Marana with self serve and an on-site restaurant as well. Van Horn TX (KVHN) used to not have fuel, but is supposed to now ... equal distance is Pecos TX (KPEQ) and they have awesome burritos in the fridge

mandm said:
I’d also only fly during the day VFR, you can even have a tent in case you need to divert and stay the night somewhere, extra food can be helpful in those situations too.
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Llewtrah381 said:
Especially in somewhat larger towns, see if there’s a welding supply place that will transfill them while you wait. My experience has been the smaller shops are more likely to do so - and it’s WAY cheaper than at any on-field resource I’ve seen. It’s $14 around me for the 15-22cf ones. They’ll even do medical cylinders if the right person is at the counter. Otherwise just tell them you understand oxygen is good for your aquarium fish…

For planning purposes I count on using about 100 psi per hour per person at around 10-11,000 and about 200 when up around 14 out of my 22cf tank. I check pressures every half hour with timed fuel tank changes. That’s using an oxymizer cannula, which is available on Amazon
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I would carry a transfill hookup. They might not have the right fittings for your tank.

Mountain High pulse demand regulator greatly reduces the O2 use. I fly a lot in the teens and still only fill my built in bottle at annual.
 
mandm said:
Omg is the Arrow different? Maybe that’s why my tires keep popping, wrong size?? I have a different nose vs main wheel, I think….
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some real good advice here. I do 4 hour legs as well, I like to have a PLB like a Spot to take along. I usually use the upper cross of the Rockies, I do a line from Burley, ID. to Rock Springs, WY. that crosses at a lower area. Just make sure you have a plan "B" and don't neglect to use it. Don't get so set on you path if things look bad that you don't use plan B. Stat hydrated so you have less chance of leg cramps. When in the mountains don't wait until you get to the mountain to gain altitude. Down drafts on the lee side may make it impossible to climb. and Density Altitude will not be in your favor as well. have a good trip. A long cross country is a bunch of 300 mile legs all put together.
 
Tools said:
View attachment 130018It’s like eating an elephant… one bite at a time. Approach EACH LEG as its own entity, analyzing the risks on their own and don’t even THINK about a schedule. If you can make the leg safely, do so. If not, don’t. It’s easy to incorporate the “to stay on schedule I gotta…” mentality. Been there, done that, learn from MY mistakes!

Be very judicious with fuel planning. Honestly, I only fly half tank legs at most usually, especially when in foreign territory. This allows for the unforseen unavailability of whatever fate throws at ya. Airports closed, fuel pumps empty or broke, card readers not working… you name it.

Absolutely most importantly, HAVE FUN! If you find yourself stressed, figure out why, and discontinue that activity! It’ll be something like worrying about weather, fuel, a maint issue or schedule. Almost guaranteed…

No pics, didn’t happen! Pictured is Helena to Chicago. Three epic days!
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I liked the part where you took down the alien spaceship.

quaid.jpg
 
Gonna be hot AF. My advice is get a cooler that fits where you can reach it while flying. Every morning, ice it up and stock with water and Gatorade.

I would probably do the northern route through Wyoming in summer, and the southern route through New Mexico in winter.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Gonna be hot AF. My advice is get a cooler that fits where you can reach it while flying. Every morning, ice it up and stock with water and Gatorade.

I would probably do the northern route through Wyoming in summer, and the southern route through New Mexico in winter.
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Good point. Additional suggestion:


These things help. Drop an ice cube or two into the water.
 
A towel dunked in some icewater and draped over your shoulders is like having a personal air conditioner. Give it a try.
 
I used to carry a PLB until my wife bought me a garmin inreach mini2 for Christmas. I like the ability to text someone from anywhere if I need to as well as the SOS button.
 
One thing I’d add is look into renting a sat phone. I do this about once a year and the cost:safety ratio is off the charts. Ouse Satmodo all the time, but I’m sure there are other competitive options. I like the “we cover 99% of Americans” mobile company ads. Yes, they do..but 99% of Americans live in like 20% of America…the rest has no mobile coverage.

It’s like $60 a week if I recall. I’ve used it 2x and both times were full on emergencies…the kind where money didn’t matter.

Have a phenomenal trip!
 
Be flexible...on my 182 flight from FL to CA I would flight plan every leg but rarely would we actually stop at where we planed and just adjusted to real time conditions which got us further each day then we thought.

Pack a cooler with some drinks, snacks, and PB&J fixins and have at it and aim to be wheels up as the sun rises each day!

The most fun part of that trip was landing at whatever random Podunk airport we were at for a fuel stop at meal time, grabbing the crew car (which was usually missing a mirror or held together with duct tape) and going to the best eats joint recommended by the old war vet airport manager. They never let us down.

We tried to fly IFR (I Follow Roads) as much as practical cuz that was also where most of the airports were in case we ever had to put down quick for whatever reason...which we did once due to weather closing in.
 
ChopAndDrop said:
You’ve had better luck than me… the welding shops and dive shops won’t have anything to do with my oxygen tank. I tried… and the only place I can get filled is at my airport.
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Not too get off track, but you can get your primary care doc or your AME to write you a prescription for O2. Then take that to any home health shop. Refills on my M9 tank are $5.70. Takes 30 secs to swap out tanks with them. Rx just states “O2 required for use at elevation or altitude over 10k feet to mitigate hypoxia.” My whole O2 setup cost me $75 and refills are so cheap I don’t even track it. My wife asks me to bring my setup home when she wants to write (she’s a professor). She loves it.
 
Wherever you land, be sure to talk to the locals. Local advice is more valuable than gold. Practice the following phrases and use them whenever possible:

"Hi there! I'm on an epic coast-to-coast cross-country, and heading east from here. Can you recommend a good airport to hit next? Where can I get a good fuel price?"
"Hi there! I've never been to this airport before... what cool things are there to do around here?"
"Hi there! This weather... is this normal? What's the best way to navigate the weather patterns around here?"

...and then go with whatever the locals recommend.

I've been on a couple of very long (2-month, and 12-month) cross-countries. All you need are: time, money, and luck. And if you have two of those in abundance, you can get away with having a little less of the third.
Have fun!
 
Zeldman said:
Some folks use empty Gatorade bottles as in flight trip extenders.... Lemon Gatorade....yellow liquid....


Then someone grabs the wrong bottle to quench their thirst....
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Give a friend a bottle of Gatorade and his thirst is quenched for an hour. Give him a refilled bottle of Gatorade and his thirst is quenched for the rest of his life.
 
Zeldman said:
Some folks use empty Gatorade bottles as in flight trip extenders.... Lemon Gatorade....yellow liquid....


Then someone grabs the wrong bottle to quench their thirst....
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I should have known that. I did a lot of arctic ops in the Army. Never get in your sleeping bag without an empty Gatorade bottle. Nothing worse than post holing through the snow at 3am.
 
Departures at daybreak are a winner, to beat turbulence, especially in the west.

Call it a day midafternoon, and you will be well rested for the next day.

In Colorado, I was at 13,500 early in the afternoon, and getting beat up pretty bad. Should have departed 2 hours earlier.
leaving Colorado Springs, the sun was on the horizon as we departed. Much better day.
 
You’ve gotten more advice that you might have wanted by now, so will keep in short. Have gone x- country about 20 times. Mostly but not always in a turbo aircraft, so take this with a grain of salt.

Look at V6 route as well - MEAs not that bad around 11k at highest point and you have oxygen. The southern route surprisingly can have headwinds going east. And launch really really early either way - the one time took family along they were not pilot-punctual and we were so pounded by turbulence over AZ and NM due to late start that we ended up at FL190 and all on oxygen which they hated. Usually made that same southern crossing solo with dogs at 13000’ but again, wheels up at 5am.

I think your new navigator is a version of the WAAS GPS175 I have in one aircraft. This permits precision approaches to pretty much any airport. East of about the 100 parallel the wx may or may not be IMC so recommend doing that IPC and learning new box well. It’s fabulous.

Eastbound go high above summer inversion for cooler weather and better viz.
 
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