Adios AOPA...

Jeff Cutler

Jeff Cutler

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Apr 9, 2005
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Jeff
After being a paying member for over 20 years, haven't really been too impressed with the 'club' in the past few. Rising costs, everything digital but if you want print - pay more, nothing really stands out that serves 'me' at my age/stage of flying... seems the leadership is trying to right the ship, but less 'perks' for the membership. Web site seems losts, flight planner is archaic, and never found the insurance services were competitive. Is it just me...?
 
I think it's still worth it. I don't agree that they're doing as horrible in lobbying as some like to say. Just look at how hard it is to get Congress to do anything. The fact that even small progress is being made is a huge win. For example, BasicMed is not the perfect solution everyone was looking for, but it's a step in the right direction that can be used as proof of no loss of safety in a few years to get further relaxation of medical rules.

In the modern nanny state, even just holding ground on our aviation freedom is a win. If AOPA can be successful in their current fight against ripoff FBOs, that will make a big difference for a lot of pilots. In any case, membership cost is low enough that it's not a big deal to belong to both AOPA and EAA. And the magazine is pretty good. By the way, as far as I can tell there's no extra cost to get printed publications instead of digital.
 
I cut my membership last year, haven't looked back. The only thing that made a slight difference was for insurance costs. But since I'm not flying much anymore I don't need that either.

Website is ok, it's better than it used to be IMO. Flight planning tool is horrible, I agree.
 
ZeroPapaGolf said:
I think it's still worth it. I don't agree that they're doing as horrible in lobbying as some like to say. Just look at how hard it is to get Congress to do anything. The fact that even small progress is being made is a huge win. For example, BasicMed is not the perfect solution everyone was looking for, but it's a step in the right direction that can be used as proof of no loss of safety in a few years to get further relaxation of medical rules.

In the modern nanny state, even just holding ground on our aviation freedom is a win. If AOPA can be successful in their current fight against ripoff FBOs, that will make a big difference for a lot of pilots. In any case, membership cost is low enough that it's not a big deal to belong to both AOPA and EAA. And the magazine is pretty good. By the way, as far as I can tell there's no extra cost to get printed publications instead of digital.
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I agree that AOPA is not as bad as some people make it out to be. Could it be better; sure. But as you point out, getting things done in Washington is no easy or cheap task.

But I wonder about, as you put it, their "fight against ripoff FBOs". I suspect that will cause us to wind up with fewer FBOs. Perhaps their strategy should be to promote more competitive FBOs, but with the margins being so thin already, I am not sure how that would be done. Or if it would cause us to be served by a plethora of cheap, no-service FBOs.
 
What flight planning tools out there are better, and why?
 
Salty said:
What flight planning tools out there are better, and why?
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Right away I think of Skyvector which is good for getting a sense of distance, winds, etc. I don't use browser-based planning tools though for the real thing, only to get in the ballpark.

FF or Garmin Pilot would be my goto's for an actual flight plan I would file.
 
I belong to both AOPA and EAA with both on auto-renew simply because they are the only two voices we have. Sure, we'd like to see them be able to see bigger, faster changes, but as noted above, nothing is simple in government in general and specifically in Congress. I think without AOPA and EAA, we would be sinking fast.

I think it is money well spent.
 
Legal representation for only $99.00 per year. Who can beat that..??
 
BasicMed. They were the engine behind it.

Pilot Protection Services for aeromedical and legal. They earned my loyalty with the help they've provided.

I don't read magazines so I couldn't care less about that.
 
If they fight in the legislature for my ability to fly without cumbersome regulation, that's all I ask. There are plenty of other things they provide me, but that is gravy.
I like AOPA.
 
Everyone's points well taken, and really appreciate everyone's opinion... so next question: if you had to choose between AOPA or EAA (it's been years since I was a member and not planning to build a kit anytime soon), which gives the most bang for the buck for pilot and GA? (realizing everyone has their own definition of 'bang').
 
Zeldman said:
Legal representation for only $99.00 per year. Who can beat that..??
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How many typical GA pilots do you know that have needed legal representation? I have been flying for 37 years and don't know of any who did not intentionally violate the REGs.
 
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Currently a member of AOPA, EAA and SPA. Each has its place and as others have said, they are pretty cheap insurance for protecting our interests in not only D.C. but across the nation. Do they win every battle? Of course not. Do I agree with them on all issues? Nope. Are we better off with them than without them? Heck yes!
 
Clip4 said:
How many typical GA pilots do you know that have needed legal representation? I have been flying for 37 years and don't know of any who did not intentionally violate the REGs.
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There are far more inadvertent regulation violations than you realize. You might have noticed from a good number of threads on here that many folks struggle with at least some of the regulations. You might be an expert on all of the regulations and might not ever make any mistakes while aviating but you are in the minority.
 
Clip4 said:
How many typical GA pilots do you know that have needed legal representation? I have been flying for 37 years and don't know of any who did not intentionally violate the REGs.
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I was of the same opinion at about 37 years of flying (coincidentally), and about 3 years ago. Then some abq ctr controller got a bee up his bonnet about me and tried to bring all hell down around my head. Don't I wish I had someone on my side (at AOPA rates) at the time! I didn't.
I survived because the controller was proven WRONG and I was right. Well I did have somebody; I was fortunate enough to have an attorney friend who helped me through it. (but it is not cool to rely on someone's generous nature for such things)
The aviation investigation and violation system is all in their favor, you will feel guilty and fully exposed til conclusion of the process. (And the accuser has zero on the line and nothing at risk even when they are WRONG! They go home to under their rock like nothing happened!)
Anyway, guess who has AOPA legal now. I will til I hang up my yoke, after that experience. So I answer your question about stats by not answering it directly. You really want someone on your side when the shooting starts.
 
Jeff Cutler said:
After being a paying member for over 20 years, haven't really been too impressed with the 'club' in the past few. Rising costs, everything digital but if you want print - pay more, nothing really stands out that serves 'me' at my age/stage of flying... seems the leadership is trying to right the ship, but less 'perks' for the membership. Web site seems losts, flight planner is archaic, and never found the insurance services were competitive. Is it just me...?
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Nope. Join the ranks who voted with their wallets and said enough and left.
 
Zeldman said:
Legal representation for only $99.00 per year. Who can beat that..??
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That's what keeps me. That and the safety foundation's educational efforts.

Otherwise AOPA offers little of value to me. Years ago I always used their online flight planner to prepare a Navlog, but they ruined that service just as competing offers got better. I also used to print their kneeboard guides to airports, but those have likewise gotten worse while competing offerings got better and surpassed them.
 
SkyDog58 said:
There are far more inadvertent regulation violations than you realize. You might have noticed from a good number of threads on here that many folks struggle with at least some of the regulations. You might be an expert on all of the regulations and might not ever make any mistakes while aviating but you are in the minority.
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Not an expert, but in all 50 states there are a whopping 37 Class B airspaces and probably that many Class C. If you are the typical private pilot flying VFR in Class E and G airspace for breakfast on weekend mornings it is rather difficult to violate a regulation.

A $69 AOPA membership and $99 legal plan because you are too lazy to learn the regs and airspace?
 
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I'll probably dump AOPA when my dues come due this winter. I'll stick around with EAA, they seem to be more along the lines of what I want in a group. Granted, not needing AOPA legal or anything like that helps the situation.
 
Clip4 said:
Not an expert, but in all 50 states there are a whopping 37 Class B airspaces and probably that many Class C. If you are the typical private pilot flying VFR in Class E and G airspace for breakfast on weekend mornings it is rather difficult to violate a regulation.

A $69 AOPA membership and $99 legal plan because you are too lazy to learn the regs and airspace?
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I'm pretty typical, and spend a lot of time in Class B - but there are plenty of "violations" other than busting a Class B. . .depending on the Fed, the same mistake can get you a brief conversation, or a fine and a certificate action. Or, if the Feds are wrong, they might just press on against you to avoid admitting a mistake - doesn't cost them much, and you might fold. It happens.

It's more like "insurance" than "lazy" - and if you can quote or recall every reg, or discern how they'll be "interpreted" on a particular day, by a particular FSDO, you have more time and random memory than most.
 
Basic Med.. not perfect.. BUT... IT IS HUGE.

This allows me to not have to pursue a special issuance and all the hassle and review. This will be one of the things that facilitates me returning to the sky.
 
Sundancer said:
I'm pretty typical, and spend a lot of time in Class B - but there are plenty of "violations" other than busting a Class B. . .depending on the Fed, the same mistake can get you a brief conversation, or a fine and a certificate action. Or, if the Feds are wrong, they might just press on against you to avoid admitting a mistake - doesn't cost them much, and you might fold. It happens.

It's more like "insurance" than "lazy" - and if you can quote or recall every reg, or discern how they'll be "interpreted" on a particular day, by a particular FSDO, you have more time and random memory than most.
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You been drinking AOPA coolaid.
 
I'll keep renewing my membership of AOPA and EAA. I don't get much out of their member services, and wish there were more. But we need a voice in Washington, and money is speech these days.

I haven't gone as far as contributing to their PAC, but I can see its place. If you want something done, you need to pay to get someone re-elected.
 
Clip4 said:
Not an expert, but in all 50 states there are a whopping 37 Class B airspaces and probably that many Class C. If you are the typical private pilot flying VFR in Class E and G airspace for breakfast on weekend mornings it is rather difficult to violate a regulation.

A $69 AOPA membership and $99 legal plan because you are too lazy to learn the regs and airspace?
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There are 122 Class C. But neither B nor C are uniform in regs. There is a single subset for all, but each may have specific additions/extras. The obvious is DC. You assume the "typical" weekend pilot is nowhere near either B or C. Of the 8000 GA pilots in Colorado, my best estimate based on zipcodes in the FAA airman database, 7000 of them are subject to B and/or C.

But thank you for playing.
 
murphey said:
There are 122 Class C. But neither B nor C are uniform in regs. There is a single subset for all, but each may have specific additions/extras. The obvious is DC. You assume the "typical" weekend pilot is nowhere near either B or C. Of the 8000 GA pilots in Colorado, my best estimate based on zipcodes in the FAA airman database, 7000 of them are subject to B and/or C.

But thank you for playing.
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I always find it interesting how many of the posts I see about quitting EAA and AOPA because they focus on issues which do not affect them, are more likely from the rural areas, where few live.
I looked around BeechTalk (another forum I use), I cannot find the stats, but someone did the zip code analysis you did but nationwide. It was something like 70% of pilots are within a Mode C veil based on zip code, and slightly over 90% of pilots are with 100 miles of a B or C airport. We really have condensed into urban areas.

Tim
 
murphey said:
There are 122 Class C. But neither B nor C are uniform in regs. There is a single subset for all, but each may have specific additions/extras. The obvious is DC. You assume the "typical" weekend pilot is nowhere near either B or C. Of the 8000 GA pilots in Colorado, my best estimate based on zipcodes in the FAA airman database, 7000 of them are subject to B and/or C.

But thank you for playing.
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If you are do not know the regs for Class B or C, I suggest down grade to light sport.
 
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The REAL question is "if I became a lifetime member and thus paid the big $ for it, would I still get hassled for every little thing they want money for?"
 
Datadriver said:
The REAL question is "if I became a lifetime member and thus paid the big $ for it, would I still get hassled for every little thing they want money for?"
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Yes. I am a lifetime member of AOPA. However, I called to request being taken off the list. They did, now I get almost no requests.

Tim
 
Clip4 said:
How many typical GA pilots do you know that have needed legal representation? I have been flying for 37 years and don't know of any who did not intentionally violate the REGs.
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It's not just about busting regs. I used their legal services to set up an LLC for my plane purchase with a partner. He was also an AOPA member and they pooled our benefits so the fees in setting up the LLC were greatly offset.
 
It is my hope that, in 10? 20? years from now, once GA has been killed by the anti's and the regulators, that us pilots don't find ourselves saying, "I wish we had known that not supporting our national pilots/owners organization -even though it is not perfect and certain things about it annoy us- would result in us losing so much of our aviation freedoms."
 
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