350k for a Navion ????

Pretty slick looking Navion. I'm sure that's probably commensurate with what was spent putting it together, but I think anyone willing to spend that much would buy something different.
 
That is one VERY nice Navion. 3737 TT since 1949 it almost brand new. May be hard to part with 350 AMU for a 1949 model but what would a 1949 navion from 1957 or so cost in today's dollars?

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That is the nicest Navion I have ever seen, but $350K nice? No way.


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Ha. Someone showed me that page at work the other day, too. My response was, "Nope."
 
I just did the math and a nearly new navion from the 50s would be like 250k today. That being said... There are almost always a few listed anywhere from 50-150k... I will have one soon.

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dell30rb said:
No shoulder harnesses?
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Be kinda hard to mount... No overhead structure to attach to. The rear seats would be pretty easy, but the for the front seats they would have to be mounted to the floor behind the seat or to the cockpit walls.

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I could get someone dumping that kind of cash into their own Navion but no way it's worth that to anyone else. That's more like a 125,000.00 Navion.
 
Grum.Man said:
I could get someone dumping that kind of cash into their own Navion but no way it's worth that to anyone else. That's more like a 125,000.00 Navion.
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That.
 
zodiacflyguy said:
Be kinda hard to mount... No overhead structure to attach to. The rear seats would be pretty easy, but the for the front seats they would have to be mounted to the floor behind the seat or to the cockpit walls.
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Exactly. All you can really do is mount the harness to the floor and run it up the back of the seat, but that will just compress your spine and seriously mess you up if you end up in a crash.

Maybe better than a face plant on the panel.....but not much.
 
Well it has over $150K in avionics added and the -R is nice engine which goes for upwards of $70K new. And right now you're pretty much out of luck on large engine conversions because the major STC holder died and the tubular mounts for the Navions are hard to come buy.

But I wouldn't give you a plug nickel for anything Sierra Hotel has worked on. They are the scum of the earth and their engineering is pathetically ludicrous and unsafe. They only survive because they have the type certificate for the (single engine) Navion and use it to abuse the FAA aircraft certification process.
 
Grum.Man said:
I could get someone dumping that kind of cash into their own Navion but no way it's worth that to anyone else. That's more like a 125,000.00 Navion.
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Someone is about to discover the immutable natural law that over-the-top project planes never return the sum of the parts + labour. ;)

There was a heavily reworked Turbo-Aztec a few spots down from me at OSH '15. Had a good look at it and talked to the owner. I figured he had close to $500k into that airframe. Last I saw he had it up for sale for ~$250k. I think he's wanting a pressurized twin.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Exactly. All you can really do is mount the harness to the floor and run it up the back of the seat, but that will just compress your spine and seriously mess you up if you end up in a crash.

Maybe better than a face plant on the panel.....but not much.
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That's just about exactly how shoulder harness are run in most helicopters. I remember in the Huey it was mounted on the floor behind the seat.
 
Art VanDelay said:
That's just about exactly how shoulder harness are run in most helicopters. I remember in the Huey it was mounted on the floor behind the seat.
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True, but most military seats have some kind of high back of extender that puts the harness above your shoulder level so that it doesn't compress your spine.

You would need very different seats in that Navion to accomplish that.

It isn't the floor mounting that is the problem, but the angle of pull on the shoulders that creates the hazard.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Exactly. All you can really do is mount the harness to the floor and run it up the back of the seat, but that will just compress your spine and seriously mess you up if you end up in a crash.

Maybe better than a face plant on the panel.....but not much.
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A sore back is better than a caved in skull....but that it just my opinion.

But for 350 amu, they could have installed those pull down shoulder bars like on a roller coaster me thinks.
 
I would like to see a photo journal of the rehab....
 
First off, you have to understand that the Navion seats like most aircraft seats are kind of flimsy to begin with and the Navion lap belts do attach to the seat. The traditional (what this plane originally had) seats were just sort fo a metal bucket with two cushions that mount on fairly thin rails. The later Rangemasters (and I've seen canopy models refitted with these seats) have seats more in line with your average Cessna which have a truss frame below supporting a folding seat back. These are even less structural.

There are really only two ways to do the Navion shoulder harnesses. Either extend the back of the bucket seat up (essentially giving you something that looks like an ejection seat) or to extend the belts into the back seat area. The latter is not too bad if you have only one shoulder belt. Mine attach to a structural point that supports the rear seat back (and also provides the lateral stiffness to the airplane since the canopy doesn't). It runs along the canopy rail on the side and then over the front seat passenger. Even for someone as tall as me (6' 2") the angle of the belt is pretty close to the 20 degree down limit. Shorter people are probably right in the desired 10 degree range.

It's one of the simplest modifications I have ever done. Got the stuff from Hooker Harnesses and I had it installed and the logbook entry done in less than an hour.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
A sore back is better than a caved in skull....but that it just my opinion.
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I'm not a survivability expert, but from what I've been told, you'd have much more than a sore back. Yes, it might be better than a head injury, but the bigger point is that if you are want to add shoulder harnesses to something like a Navion, you might as well do it the right way which is not a simple task like it is to put them in an early Cessna, Piper or Beech.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I'm not a survivability expert, but from what I've been told, you'd have much more than a sore back. Yes, it might be better than a head injury, but the bigger point is that if you are want to add shoulder harnesses to something like a Navion, you might as well do it the right way which is not a simple task like it is to put them in an early Cessna, Piper or Beech.
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It wouldn't be that much or an issue to install shoulder harnesses in a correct manner. In my opinion it would be the best money they ever spent. The number of deaths caused by the head hitting the panel is rather daunting. I don't have the numbers but they have been looked at many times over and it just makes sense to me. Pilots train for all kinds of scenarios but tend to overlook keeping their face from bending the panel.
 
There was a fatal crash here maybe 2 yrs ago where a guy put a 182 with a bad engine down right into the middle of a large, flat field. The field was soft and the nose wheel dug in and flipped the plane over. No shoulder harnesses. He probably would have walked away if he had them.

I would do whatever engineering is necessary to get a good set of shoulder harnesses in any airplane I own.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I'm not a survivability expert, but from what I've been told, you'd have much more than a sore back. Yes, it might be better than a head injury, but the bigger point is that if you are want to add shoulder harnesses to something like a Navion, you might as well do it the right way which is not a simple task like it is to put them in an early Cessna, Piper or Beech.
Click to expand...

Read my post. It is a simple task (for the front seat passengers at least). Takes less than $200 and an hour.

I've seen Navion crashes that were ultimately survivable (the Navion is out STOUT airframe) but the people got flailed into the panel/windshield with just the lap belt.
I got my shoulder harnesses pretty quickly after that.
 
flyingron said:
Well it has over $150K in avionics added and the -R is nice engine which goes for upwards of $70K new. And right now you're pretty much out of luck on large engine conversions because the major STC holder died and the tubular mounts for the Navions are hard to come buy.

But I wouldn't give you a plug nickel for anything Sierra Hotel has worked on. They are the scum of the earth and their engineering is pathetically ludicrous and unsafe. They only survive because they have the type certificate for the (single engine) Navion and use it to abuse the FAA aircraft certification process.
Click to expand...
flyingron said:
Read my post. It is a simple task (for the front seat passengers at least). Takes less than $200 and an hour.

I've seen Navion crashes that were ultimately survivable (the Navion is out STOUT airframe) but the people got flailed into the panel/windshield with just the lap belt.
I got my shoulder harnesses pretty quickly after that.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks, got the idea, just not the exact meaning. I’m easily confused.
 
dell30rb said:
There was a fatal crash here maybe 2 yrs ago where a guy put a 182 with a bad engine down right into the middle of a large, flat field. The field was soft and the nose wheel dug in and flipped the plane over. No shoulder harnesses. He probably would have walked away if he had them.

I would do whatever engineering is necessary to get a good set of shoulder harnesses in any airplane I own.
Click to expand...

I’m putting 4-point harnesses in my 150 this Winter. My parents neighbor had a Navion when I was a kid. Loud prop! He wrecked it on a high DA morning flying out on a fishing trip, way overloaded with 4 on board plus gear. All survived. Serious injuries, several 6-8” pines broken off at the scene. Stout airframe is right!
 
Just clicked on the link, and it says "Sorry, this ad is not presently available."
SOLD! (I doubt it!)
 
dell30rb said:
There was a fatal crash here maybe 2 yrs ago where a guy put a 182 with a bad engine down right into the middle of a large, flat field. The field was soft and the nose wheel dug in and flipped the plane over. No shoulder harnesses. He probably would have walked away if he had them.

I would do whatever engineering is necessary to get a good set of shoulder harnesses in any airplane I own.
Click to expand...

Thirty some years ago I was driving down a road that was about a half mile from the runway of now closed Andrau Airpark in West Houston. I looked up and saw a Cherokee trailing smoke and going down.

I circled back on another road further south, and found the airplane on the far bank of a flood control channel. The pilot was trying to reach a large athletic field, and came up literally just a few feet short.

The plane was already burning. I ran to it in an attempt to help the pilot, but the cockpit had become involved because the left wing was sort of folded up and had spilled fuel. There was nothing I could do. :(

It was the ultimate helpless feeling. It wasn't a hard hit. The nose and cockpit were intact. I was sure the pilot had survived the impact. An autopsy of the pilot revealed a head injury, and carbon soot in his lungs. He was still breathing when the fire overtook the cockpit.

I believe a shoulder harness would have saved his life. If you don't have them installed in your aircraft, get it done.
 
The L-17B I used to fly had an inertial reel shoulder harness mounted to the back of the seat.
 
@David Olig - 2 year old thread won't get you the Necro Post of the Year crown. But props for having your display name Navion when reviving a thread about Navions.

@Busflyer - Good that you didn't know what an AMU is. It's a very NOT clever term that gets thrown about all to often.
 
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