100LL Debacle

3393RP said:
I find the "no safe level of lead exposure" standard curious, considering that I suspect decades ago when lead was ubiquitously present in many products and processes there was a detectable level of the substance in a good portion of the US population. Were there generations produced with suppressed IQs but the effects prevented anyone from realizing it, or is the standard a bit ridiculous?
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It's my understanding that blood lead levels in the US population used to be around 10 mcg/dL, but has slowly dropped to around 5 mcg/dL. In fact, there are varioius sources on the web that will state that up to 10 mcg/dL is normal in adults.

An interesting tidbit is that lead is stored in the body and will slowly, very slowly, leach out of the body (or whatever the correct term is).

I'm not aware of any research that definitely shows "no safe level of lead exposure" is true. And probably nobody wants to prove it is false.
 
3393RP said:
I find the "no safe level of lead exposure" standard curious, considering that I suspect decades ago when lead was ubiquitously present in many products and processes there was a detectable level of the substance in a good portion of the US population. Were there generations produced with suppressed IQs but the effects prevented anyone from realizing it, or is the standard a bit ridiculous?
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My grandfather worked the mines in Picher, OK (google it) before there was an OSHA. Had his first shot for a prostrate surgery in his early 80's and lived to 85. Doesn't mean everyone should work in the lead mines and they'll be healthy, but doesn't mean any contact w/lead equals certain demise. Too much of this sure seems to be an excuse for substandard performance.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
There are several theories that postulate just that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead–crime_hypothesis
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I think if you look at the generations on PoA, it's obvious that there are lead generations with suppressed IQs :p :D
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I'm pretty sure you could substitute things like "Number of Saturday morning cartoon shows available" in place of the lead numbers there. Good thing Johnny Quest and Scooby Doo aren't around any more or we'd all be getting mugged.
 
3393RP said:
You might consider that the current administration, Congress, and the EPA won't be too concerned about a solution considering they claim there is supposedly no safe level of lead exposure for children.

I'm not sure how generations of kids managed to survive lead pipes, lead paint, and leaded gas without horrendous and calamitous death rates, but there it is.
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To be fair, it isn't death that makes lead insidious; it's stupidity. Seriously. Lower IQ, impulse control, and then some really bad stuff. Sound familiar?
 
Mxfarm said:
My grandfather worked the mines in Picher, OK (google it) before there was an OSHA. Had his first shot for a prostrate surgery in his early 80's and lived to 85. Doesn't mean everyone should work in the lead mines and they'll be healthy, but doesn't mean any contact w/lead equals certain demise. Too much of this sure seems to be an excuse for substandard performance.
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Yeah, but at least we got to keep all of the fly ash in Bokoshe as well! :D
 
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Bob Noel said:
It's my understanding that blood lead levels in the US population used to be around 10 mcg/dL, but has slowly dropped to around 5 mcg/dL. In fact, there are varioius sources on the web that will state that up to 10 mcg/dL is normal in adults.

An interesting tidbit is that lead is stored in the body and will slowly, very slowly, leach out of the body (or whatever the correct term is).

I'm not aware of any research that definitely shows "no safe level of lead exposure" is true. And probably nobody wants to prove it is false.
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Why, how naive of you. Did you think I made it up? When in doubt, contact the government.

EPA and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) agree that there is no known safe level of lead in a child's blood. Taking action to reduce these exposures can improve outcomes. Lead is harmful to health, especially for children.May 25, 2022

https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-an...enters for,to health, especially for children....

Basic Information about Lead in Drinking Water | US EPA
 
3393RP said:
...that there is no known safe level of lead...
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There is a world of difference in meaning between “no known safe level” and “no safe level.”

The CDC is stating that they don’t know what a safe level might be. I doubt anyone is inclined to find out.
 
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3393RP said:
…Were there generations produced with suppressed IQs but the effects prevented anyone from realizing it, or is the standard a bit ridiculous?
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How did we ever get to the moon?
 
SAT scores were “re-centered” in 1995 to compensate for a trend of declining scores. If people were getting smarter, re-centering would’ve meant lowering the scores. They were raised.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
A very significant part of the US GDP, and a lack of regard for human safety.
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"a lack of regard for human safety"?

I guess there was no difference between missile boosters and man-rated boosters...

The launch escape systems on Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo were just for show...

All the redundacy in the LEM was just a myth.

yeah, sometimes people need to take risks.
 
Bob Noel said:
"a lack of regard for human safety"?
I guess there was no difference between missile boosters and man-rated boosters...
The launch escape systems on Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo were just for show...
All the redundacy in the LEM was just a myth.
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A drop in the bucket compared to safety systems of today.
Bob Noel said:
yeah, sometimes people need to take risks.
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No disagreement there. Just saying the thought processes were different back then than they are today... and so is the funding.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
A drop in the bucket compared to safety systems of today.

No disagreement there. Just saying the thought processes were different back then than they are today... and so is the funding.
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um, different, yup.

Look at the SRBs on the shuttles and the safety implications of those.

Seems like safety degraded.
 
PaulMillner said:
The impact on children is stunting of intellectual development... that's manifested by difficulties learning, lower IQ by five points or so depending on exposure, poor impulse control and propensity for violence, and potentially greater chance of cancer later in life. That's probably why you and I are where we are today... survivor phenomenon!

Paul
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Yeah, if lead is so bad for children, how some any of us older people are alive and not drooling on ourselves.

We had leaded gas in planes. And airlines burned avgas. We had leaded gas in our cars. We had lead in the paint on our toys. We had lead in the paint on and in our houses. Some of use played with lead toys (not sure where it came from, but we had some molds to cast leads WWI military toys). When we worked on cars, even as kids, we cleaned our hands in leaded gasoline.

On could make the case the proliferation of morons came about after taking most of the lead out of things. :D
 
Mtns2Skies said:
The expectation was that there would be casualties from space flight. That is no longer an expectation.


See funding. Is someone a little triggered?
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Actually that still is an expectation for a Mars mission. You're also ignoring a whole lot of things with your trying to make it simplistic. It's not.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
A drop in the bucket compared to safety systems of today.
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That's true of almost everything. Look at safety systems in cars and trucks today, compared to the 1960s and 1970s. Same thing for workplace safety, mine safety, lawn mowers... the state of the art advances over time as we learn and develop new technology. People a hundred years from now will look back at us and wonder how any of us survived.
 
DaleB said:
That's true of almost everything. Look at safety systems in cars and trucks today, compared to the 1960s and 1970s. Same thing for workplace safety, mine safety, lawn mowers... the state of the art advances over time as we learn and develop new technology. People a hundred years from now will look back at us and wonder how any of us survived.
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People like to ignore technological advances when it destroys their argument.

"People in the middle ages didn't get vaccines, why did they hate their children so much?!?!"
 
Morgan3820 said:
In my work experience the safety/environmental/health people really aren’t smart. The coursework in university is shallow and not that rigorous. Most of them are grandstanding alarmists that add little to society. Initially they had a benefit for correcting some of the gross miscarriages of environmental justice but now they’re just hanging on, looking for relevancy.
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In my experience, the “alarmists” are busy chasing risks that involve liability and/or certification due to a manufacturing industry that has, partly through regulatory capture, figured out how to pass the liability buck onto end users who generally have the most exposure due to shallower pockets and the (edit: lack of) ability to afford the right lawyers and lobbyists. (breathes in)

Anyway, it’s a death spiral. Lots of resources wasted and we’re often busy blaming the wrong people because we’ve been conditioned to do so.
 
Lead is an active ingredient in pewter, and leaches out when exposed to acid. People used it for drinking glasses for a thousand years. The term "wake" comes from its use, as did bells at grave sites, to make certain the deceased was really deceased and not knocked out temporarily by lead poisoning. Humans survived, did some great things too.
 
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