100LL Debacle

172andyou said:
Yup. This thread has been riddled with assumption that are not scientifically grounded.
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hold up. are you making the claim that lead poisoning being bad for humans is not scientifically grounded?
 
DaleB said:
Ah, yes. Marvelous. The preferred attack of someone who's run completely out of arguments, and has to drop back to the generational equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I?"
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did you skip over the 2nd part of the message?
 
sliceofstrife said:
ok boomer.

so you're saying lead poisoning isn't a thing? sounds like a comment from someone with lead poisoning.
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First, not a boomer. Younger than that. Second, I never said that. I was specifically addressing your tactics of posting a big scary number without realizing that it's not that scary if you know how to do math, which you apparently don't.

How many times were you dropped on your head as a kid?
 
sliceofstrife said:
did you skip over the 2nd part of the message?
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I did not; I didn't feel it necessary to comment on that since I was pretty sure your intended target would. The whole "You're older than me, so you can't know what you're talking about and your opinion holds no value" thing is as nonsensical as it is offensive.
 
EdFred said:
First, not a boomer. Younger than that. Second, I never said that. I was specifically addressing your tactics of posting a big scary number without realizing that it's not that scary if you know how to do math, which you apparently don't.

How many times were you dropped on your head as a kid?
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Can you point to the message where I posted a big scary number?
 
DaleB said:
The whole "You're older than me, so you can't know what you're talking about and your opinion holds no value" thing is as nonsensical as it is offensive.
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Well, I guess that depends on how much validity there is to the correlation of lead levels in the air by year and cognitive ability of people born during those times...

(Kind of a joke)
 
EdFred said:
Your link saying 800,000,000 IQ points have been lost. Or do you just not read what you post?
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That was you picking that number out of an article and discounting the whole article because of the number. I posted the article because the conclusions of the article remain true, regardless of whatever big scary number they used.

Back to the point — do you believe lead poisoning is or isn't harmful to humans?
 
sliceofstrife said:
That was you picking that number out of an article and discounting the whole article because of the number. I posted the article because the conclusions of the article remain true, regardless of whatever big scary number they used.

Back to the point — do you believe lead poisoning is or isn't harmful to humans?
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Yeah, I will discount any argument that is disingenuous and tries to make their point through fear. Usually because they are trying to play on emotion rather than just being factual. Doesn't matter what I believe, as I don't have 43 PhDs, and only those with 43 PhDs should be listened to. Meanwhile there's studies out there that show it's possible that malnutrition has a greater effect on development in children than lead, and those studies were conducted over the same/similar time period. So even if I say I believe that lead poisoning is harmful, I also think it's overblown, and also not necessarily the sole contributor on these studies. One study says food, one says lead. Can probably find 12 more that say it's because of 12 different things. Either way, I'll discount any of them that use scare tactics. Just like when people use cumulative graphs to increase the fear rather than an average or per day and ditch the emotion.
 
There's a large list of things that can be blamed for poor development in children. Many products used in agriculture have been banned and even now they are regulating chemicals out of existence that have been used for many years. Food processing has changed by leaps and bounds over the last few decades in an effort to keep the food supply safer. But they also add hormones to make stuff grow & make it "better."

Put on the list the environment that some children must grow up in or the folks who are filling the little bodies of our children with Methylphenidate (Ritalin) and other poisons.

Not saying that lead is good but I am saying that there's an abundance of items that are contributors to where we are as a society of people. I know many are science fanatics and I agree that science is a great tool ... but these folks often get it wrong too. Not saying that's the case here but again, don't take no bait hook, line, and sinker.
 
EdFred said:
Yeah, I will discount any argument that is disingenuous and tries to make their point through fear. Usually because they are trying to play on emotion rather than just being factual. Doesn't matter what I believe, as I don't have 43 PhDs, and only those with 43 PhDs should be listened to. Meanwhile there's studies out there that show it's possible that malnutrition has a greater effect on development in children than lead, and those studies were conducted over the same/similar time period. So even if I say I believe that lead poisoning is harmful, I also think it's overblown, and also not necessarily the sole contributor on these studies. One study says food, one says lead. Can probably find 12 more that say it's because of 12 different things. Either way, I'll discount any of them that use scare tactics. Just like when people use cumulative graphs to increase the fear rather than an average or per day and ditch the emotion.
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It appears that you failed to answer a yes / no question. Do you need me to break it down into simpler terms for you?
 
Daleandee said:
There's a large list of things that can be blamed for poor development in children. Many products used in agriculture have been banned and even now they are regulating chemicals out of existence that have been used for many years. Food processing has changed by leaps and bounds over the last few decades in an effort to keep the food supply safer. But they also add hormones to make stuff grow & make it "better."

Put on the list the environment that some children must grow up in or the folks who are filling the little bodies of our children with Methylphenidate (Ritalin) and other poisons.

Not saying that lead is good but I am saying that there's an abundance of items that are contributors to where we are as a society of people. I know many are science fanatics and I agree that science is a great tool ... but these folks often get it wrong too. Not saying that's the case here but again, don't take no bait hook, line, and sinker.
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Nobody has claimed that THIS IS THE ONE SOLE THING that is bad for humans. That would be insane and unreasonable. Pretty sure that everyone agrees that there are a myriad of things that are bad for us as we go about this world.

The question is about lead without getting distracted with whatabboutisms. Is lead one of those things?
 
I love this thread. It's like arguing with a 6 year old who thinks they're winning.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
So....what is the source of the Lead? Airplanes you say....how's that? Were there control samples taken from other areas?
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Yes, those studies have been done. Children near GA airports have higher levels of lead in their blood.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
How does that compare with those of us who grew up in the 70's breathing the stuff?
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What does your experience in the 70's have to do with today? Are you saying that because bad **** happened to you, that it's okay for bad **** to happen to today's children? And for some reason we should be okay with that?
 
What is bad?....and are we continuing to move the goal posts? ....and again, what is the source of lead? There is lots of contaminated neighborhoods in developed areas from other sources.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
What is bad?....and are we continuing to move the goal posts? ....and again, what is the source of lead? There is lots of contaminated neighborhoods in developed areas from other sources.
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Come on be serious. Are you really unclear on the word "bad"?
 
Forget for a minute the source of the lead, forget that there are other things in the universe that are bad for you, forget that you grew up where everyone had minor lead poisoning.

Do you agree or disagree -- lead is bad for humans.
 
bad question:

Better question: How much lead is bad for humans? one single molecule? two molecules? BLL of 0.00001 mcg/dL?
 
sliceofstrife said:
Forget for a minute the source of the lead, forget that there are other things in the universe that are bad for you, forget that you grew up where everyone had minor lead poisoning.

Do you agree or disagree -- lead is bad for humans.
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Do you agree processed food is bad for humans?
 
Bob Noel said:
bad question:

Better question: How much lead is bad for humans? one single molecule? two molecules? BLL of 0.00001 mcg/dL?
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Fair enough. But, if you'd prefer to be so specific, then you'd have to add an impact & time. You'd have to say "how much lead is required to cause X impact over T time?" I don't know that answer, and I'm not sure that anyone does since all humans are different.

However if we're forced to answer your question then yes, 1 molecule IS bad for you. Lead has no known biological function in the body, and as the impact is cumulative, you'd want to avoid every 1 molecule. That said, that 1 molecule itself won't be bad enough to cause any noticeable impact to our lives.
 
sliceofstrife said:
Fair enough. But, if you'd prefer to be so specific, then you'd have to add an impact & time. You'd have to say "how much lead is required to cause X impact over T time?" I don't know that answer, and I'm not sure that anyone does since all humans are different.

However if we're forced to answer your question then yes, 1 molecule IS bad for you. Lead has no known biological function in the body, and as the impact is cumulative, you'd want to avoid every 1 molecule. That said, that 1 molecule itself won't be bad enough to cause any noticeable impact to our lives.
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"1 molecule IS bad for you"

"That said, that 1 molecule itself won't be bad enough to cause any noticeable impact to our lives."

hmmmmmm
 
Bob Noel said:
"1 molecule IS bad for you"

"That said, that 1 molecule itself won't be bad enough to cause any noticeable impact to our lives."

hmmmmmm
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If I add 1 molecule of lead to every breath you take, and every sip of water you drink. Would you be okay with that?
 
All that aside, this has been very enlightening. Turns out there's a group of people who think that lead poisoning is a total non-issue.. and that it's 100% ok to continue poisoning this nation's children. Mind-boggling.
 
sliceofstrife said:
If I add 1 molecule of lead to every breath you take, and every sip of water you drink. Would you be okay with that?
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you realize that there is lead in the air you breathe and lead in the water you drink, don't you?
 
sliceofstrife said:
All that aside, this has been very enlightening. Turns out there's a group of people who think that lead poisoning is a total non-issue.. and that it's 100% ok to continue poisoning this nation's children. Mind-boggling.
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Q: have you ever contributed to poisoning the children and, if so, how does that make you feel?
 
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