Cheapest way to build retract time

Nick Geber said:
Comparing to short bodies only. Wingspan of my O3 is 36 ft 1 inch. Short bodies are 35
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No, some mid bodies are the same. The fiberglass tips came sometime on the J.

But Fs and Gs did not have them, and are mid body Mooneys
 
Pinecone said:
No, some mid bodies are the same. The fiberglass tips came sometime on the J.

But Fs and Gs did not have them, and are mid body Mooneys
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Yes, they are - maybe I should have said "modern Mooneys J's and Up" instead of mid bodied
 
Off the top of my head, I suspect they were introduced with the M20K 231. I know the the first Js did not have them
 
Tools said:
Can a motor glider (folding prop) be complex? I guess it could easily be TAA…. Hmmm….

Haven’t read all the posts in this thread yet, but did anyone mention the planes with a gear handle, checklists that support them, but fixed gear? Best I can tell they count for retract time. But maybe not for insurance?

I have 10,000 retract in jets… and TEN in light civil planes. I can get insured in about anything. Honestly, they scare me to death! In terms of just screwing up…. Having cut my teeth on a Piet that doesn’t have electrical or mixture, took me a while to even get used to a mixture knob…

My first “solo” in a turboprop jump plane I tried to taxi with the prop feathered! Thought my brakes were stuck…. EMBARRASSING!
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FAR 61.1 provides the definition of a complex airplane. It says nothing about about other aircraft, so NO there is no such thing as complex glider time for a FAR stand point. From a practical standpoint almost every Motor glider should be categorized as complex, perhaps except some of the newer electric models. While many may not have flap most have some sort of controllable propellor or engine storage controls. Just the decision making on when to start a shutdown engine and the change in flight characteristic as then engine/propeller are being extended along with procedures for if it doesn't start should qualify most motor glider as a complex aircraft in my opinion.

TAA applies only to Airplane as well.

It is interesting that the more experience you get the more "Scare me to death" things there are as you realize it could happen to us and we could be the ones that screw it up.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
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StraightnLevel said:
When was the last time you tried to find auto fuel without ethanol?
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Every time I fill my car. And I have a very high success rate. There is only one station in my county that I know of where the 91 octane gas has ethanol. Of course, gasoline blending is probably one of the most regionally varied things in America. It’s a little bizarre to think that you can get an identical cheeseburger or can of Coke or beer anywhere in the country but automotive engines have to be designed to run on wildly inconsistent fuels.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:

Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada

Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.
www.pure-gas.org www.pure-gas.org

It's really not that difficult for many.
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That depends on where you live. Try finding it at any reasonable distance from KLVJ, for example. The only option anywhere near KETB is from a home goods store - low octane lawnmower fuel.

I have more 100LL options (4) within 25 miles of my airport than ethanol free gas pumps (0).
 
StraightnLevel said:
That depends on where you live. Try finding it at any reasonable distance from KLVJ, for example. The only option anywhere near KETB is from a home goods store - low octane lawnmower fuel.
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I buy my tractor parts in West Bend, and used to take my son there for swimming lessons, so I'm not far away from KETB - I buy ethanol free mogas at KHXF. They actually do have an ethanol free at the Farm & Fleet in West Bend, but it shares a hose with other grades containing ethanol, so unless you pump the first gallon or two into something else, you might still be getting some ethanol.
StraightnLevel said:
I have more 100LL options (4) within 25 miles of my airport than ethanol free gas pumps (0).
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:o
Garee said:
pretty much every gas station in the Midwest has non ethanol, many with 2 choices of non ethanol, 87 or 91 like my local station………
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Not really. In the greater Chicago-Milwaukee zone of influence, everyone's got ethanol.

The other thing to consider is what I mentioned above, where stations have multiple grades going out a single hose. Unfortunately, that setup seems to be getting more and more popular, which makes it more difficult to get truly ethanol free gas.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I buy my tractor parts in West Bend, and used to take my son there for swimming lessons, so I'm not far away from KETB - I buy ethanol free mogas at KHXF. They actually do have an ethanol free at the Farm & Fleet in West Bend, but it shares a hose with other grades containing ethanol, so unless you pump the first gallon or two into something else, you might still be getting some ethanol.
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My farm is near that Fleet Farm location. The ethanol free pump is low octane (87, IIRC), so it's good for lawnmower/tractor use, but not in my car. I'm not sure that I'd put 87 into a plane, but opinions vary.

It's on the far side of town from KETB....
 
FoundSoul said:
Most gas stations around me have non-ethanol fuel. I do live on a lake though, not sure if you're close to a body of water used for recreation but if so, there's probably some REC90 (non ethanol) there.

Check this thing out for getting it to your plane! https://smartassproducts.net/products/smart-ass-fuel-mule-aviation-edition

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At $5,245, how many gallons do you have to put through it before it finally pays for itself? I just fly to where the gas I want is and it costs a lot less than that.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
At $5,245, how many gallons do you have to put through it before it finally pays for itself? I just fly to where the gas I want is and it costs a lot less than that.
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I use it for the lake, and have the normal version without the aviation additions, so it's ~$4500. I save more than $5000 every year though fueling my boat with it (marina gas is like $2-$2.50/gal more than street gas for my boat. And I'm not sure how much time I save, but a lot....
 
Here’s a great option….but it’s been sold.
bids.airspaceauctions.com

1958 Bonanza J35 // Complete logs! // N7274B

Auction Terms:By placing a bid, you are agreeing to the terms: you are both willing and able topay the bid amount, plus buyers premium, taxes and transfer costs. Before placing any bid; make sure you have read and understand the terms in your bidder contract, which you have agreed to. Have all...
bids.airspaceauctions.com bids.airspaceauctions.com
 
StraightnLevel said:
Here’s a great option….but it’s been sold.
bids.airspaceauctions.com

1958 Bonanza J35 // Complete logs! // N7274B

Auction Terms:By placing a bid, you are agreeing to the terms: you are both willing and able topay the bid amount, plus buyers premium, taxes and transfer costs. Before placing any bid; make sure you have read and understand the terms in your bidder contract, which you have agreed to. Have all...
bids.airspaceauctions.com bids.airspaceauctions.com
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Thanks, but I’m filling registration Saturday and will announce then on my first ever plane


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No ****, KLBX in Angleton is home for me, though it's been a couple of decades since I've flown there :lol:
 
Barrett50 said:
So, what do you think we're doing now? Just gonna write the check and fly it away? There's a specialist from ABS on the way to that plane as we speak.

Sheesh, you certainly have a low opinion of me, and we haven't but barely communicated. Maybe just step off and let me do what I do?
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Haven’t looked at this thread in a long time. Sorry.

I did not mean that post as a lecture, rather as a friendly warning. Since I don’t know you, your experience or much of anything else about you, I just wanted you to know that. I’ve seen a number of people over the years make vehicle purchases based on color, cosmetic condition and other things while overlooking the condition. No insult was intended. Only trying to help in my own way.

A thorough prebuy is no guarantee either. There are things that can hide and rear their ugly head later. I’ve been on the receiving end of that when there was absolutely no bad intent by the extremely reputable seller.

Hope it all works out for you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
StraightnLevel said:
When was the last time you tried to find auto fuel without ethanol?
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I’ve never seen Mogas at an airport, but then again I’ve never been watching for it. Off airport though, it’s usually not difficult to find if you ask around.

When ethanol supplemented gasoline first came out, it caused many problems in cars due to fuel system component materials being attacked by it. There are still some materials in small outdoor equipment engines that don’t like it. For this reason many people seek it out for boats and outdoor equipment. I know people that are almost religious about it. I run ethanol gas in everything from chainsaws, four wheelers, mowers and my outboard motor, although the outboard is fuel injected. Electronic fuel injection seems to like it because the fuel stays sealed up, disallowing exposure to moisture in the air.

Anyway, back to Mogas for an airplane. I looked into it back when all I had was the Cessna. The STC didn’t cost much, but purchasing the fuel off airport, transporting it, storing it and keeping it debris and moisture free was going to be a hassle, so I have kept pumping in the 100LL. In my case. That’s easy because at my airport they sell 100 LL out of the truck for the self serve price.
 
Little update. Took the c35 out with my transition instructor for about 4 hours today, grinning ear to ear.

Played with the autopilot, works great for gpss and altitude hold off the ancient gnc300xl
Saw 147 kts tas at 9,500 heading over the mountains
Landed at three airports

Building a list f sqwaks for annual in feb
- main thing in a 5 year prop ad that’ll cost a few grand on top of the annual

Otherwise little stuff
- headset jack loose
- seep around copilot main gear (brake fluid or oil from strut)
- baggage compartment fuel tank will barely feed, need the fuel line and vent checked to ensure I can use it
- dg is going belly up. Not necessary for now but might be a g5 or gi275 in a year or so


Love the Bo


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Another satisfied Bo pilot. The electric prop service is not an AD. This job can be done much cheaper if the pilot or A&P gets the manual and does it themselves. It's not a hard inspection and cleaning. The gland nut on the front of the prop is tight at 600Ft/Lbs. It takes a 1" round bar 3 feet long to remove the gland nut. Then, the six 7/16" bolts on the ring gear need to come off, and the prop will pull right off. Have a 5gal bucket avail and set the hub on the bucket. You can clean it right there with Varsol, inspect the bearing, re-grease it, and then install. The prop manual is avail, and if you don't find it on ABS or some other source, I think I have an electronic copy on my other computer I could send to you. While the prop is off, check the brushes in the pitch change motor. They are common brushes, can usually be found at Grainger or a motor rebuild place.

You can get more than 147Kts out of it if the plane is rigged right. I've gotten 162Kts at 4500' when I was in a rush, but they drink a lot of gas that way. Rigging is pretty important on the slick airplane. Most Bo's have gear door droop, or engine droop, or flap offset. Some have all of those.
 
Hi! I was hoping you’d chime in.

Unfortunately, I’ve got the Hartzell hydraulic with the 5 year IRAN/AD required. The prop is very clean looking though so it should just be a disassemble;, inspect and reseal for about $3k. It is starting to mist me with oil, so I’ve got to get that done regardless.

I knew this was coming before I purchased, so it’s no big deal, though. I would have preferred the electric prop for sure.

On speeds, you’re bang on. It takes a little right rudder all the time to keep the ball centered, and if you look on the ruddervators, the trim tabs aren’t even. I’m going to have my IA adjust during annual next month as well and hope to pick up a few more knots.


This Bo runs like a scalded dog. It has the STC for the io470 260hp cylinders on the e225 case. At 2500 lbs it’s like climbing out in a rocket >2000fpm, then pull the power back to 22” and cruise climb at 110 mph and >1000fpm to 10000 feet. Short field are no problems. I’ve been on longer fields but will work on my technique with my transition guy.

Thank you for the help and encouragement on the bonanza. Sincerely


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Did I miss the pics? Because I'm pretty sure we were promised pics back in October! :p
 
kayoh190 said:
Did I miss the pics? Because I'm pretty sure we were promised pics back in October! :p
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hyd prop. Oh well. That's why you'll only get around 150Kts. The Beech elec is 88" long and provides extra twist when moving.
 
ALMOST done with my transition training. 2.5 hours yesterday with 5 landings at 3 different airports.

It will not go down and slow down without the gear out, unless you give yourself ages. I have found that if I slow to 110 (gear speed is limited to 126, so I always go slower than that to take it easy on stuff) or so, pitch up a bit, and lower the gear, I can then make a normal deceleration and descent.

I will go to a BPP clinic when one comes up within a couple of states of me to really refine techniques and continue to work short field stuff as well.

Also, figured out that it was my mistake that I couldn't use the baggage aux tank. I just had the fuel valve 180 degrees out of position (it's hard to see when I'm belted in, but I can always find the two wing tanks safely). Now that I see which end of the valve lever is labeled with a pointer, I can confidently use all 3 tanks (50 gallons) which massively increases the utility of the plan vs just the front 2 (40). For those that don't know, I have two wing tanks (20 gallons each, 17.5 usable) and about 3 GPH returns to the left wing tank regardless of which tank you're feeding from, so you always start on that. If you're like me and want an hour of reserve (10 gallons), it means that I realistically had 2-2.5 hours before you wanted to land and top off (yesterday I burned 21.6 gallons in 2.5 hours of engine time, including taxing, warmup, etc).

Now with 50 gallons, you can go about 3.5 hours at just under 150 kts, so pretty good legs and still have about an hour reserve.

It's the little wins that build up!

Going up Wednesday for an hour or so to finish a few procedures we need to do together and then I'm free to start carefully exploring.
 
MIFlyer said:
Also, figured out that it was my mistake that I couldn't use the baggage aux tank. I just had the fuel valve 180 degrees out of position (it's hard to see when I'm belted in, but I can always find the two wing tanks safely). Now that I see which end of the valve lever is labeled with a pointer, I can confidently use all 3 tanks (50 gallons) which massively increases the utility of the plan vs just the front 2 (40). For those that don't know, I have two wing tanks (20 gallons each, 17.5 usable) and about 3 GPH returns to the left wing tank regardless of which tank you're feeding from, so you always start on that. If you're like me and want an hour of reserve (10 gallons), it means that I realistically had 2-2.5 hours before you wanted to land and top off (yesterday I burned 21.6 gallons in 2.5 hours of engine time, including taxing, warmup, etc).

Now with 50 gallons, you can go about 3.5 hours at just under 150 kts, so pretty good legs and still have about an hour reserve.
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That kind of a fuel system reminds me of a technique another PoA poster with a Beech posted about a LONG time ago. The basic gist of it is to run the tank with the return dry first and then run on the other tanks long enough that you have "reserve plus" in the return tank.

So, depending on how much fuel goes into the return line, yours would be something like run on the left tank an hour*, run on the right tank an hour*, run the left tank dry, run the right tank dry, run the baggage tank dry, and now you have all of your remaining fuel in one place (left tank).

How long the time is you spend on the first two depends on that rate of return fuel coming back to the left tank on your particular plane. You could run the left tank dry, then fly on the right for an hour and land, then top off the left tank and do the math to see what you ended up with.

I'm surprised there isn't some sort of STC for these birds for a sensor on the vent to ensure fuel isn't coming out. That, of course, is the big thing to be careful of. Worse than having your fuel split between a bunch of tanks when you're low is to realize you dumped it overboard a couple hours ago...
 
flyingcheesehead said:
That kind of a fuel system reminds me of a technique another PoA poster with a Beech posted about a LONG time ago. The basic gist of it is to run the tank with the return dry first and then run on the other tanks long enough that you have "reserve plus" in the return tank.

So, depending on how much fuel goes into the return line, yours would be something like run on the left tank an hour*, run on the right tank an hour*, run the left tank dry, run the right tank dry, run the baggage tank dry, and now you have all of your remaining fuel in one place (left tank).

How long the time is you spend on the first two depends on that rate of return fuel coming back to the left tank on your particular plane. You could run the left tank dry, then fly on the right for an hour and land, then top off the left tank and do the math to see what you ended up with.

I'm surprised there isn't some sort of STC for these birds for a sensor on the vent to ensure fuel isn't coming out. That, of course, is the big thing to be careful of. Worse than having your fuel split between a bunch of tanks when you're low is to realize you dumped it overboard a couple hours ago...
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I'm pretty good on watching fuel management. I do have gauges for all 3 as well. It returns about 3GPH to the left main tank.

My strategy if I was going max endurance
- An hour and 15 minutes on the left main tank (leaves = 4.5 usable)
- An hour 20 or so on the right tank (leaves 0 usable) and brings left tank to about 9 usable
- 45 on baggage tank (leaves 0 in baggage and 11 gallons in left main)

That's 3:20 hours and leaves me with an honest hour in the left main, along with a strong desire for lunch and a bathroom, along with a leg stretch.

This is assuming I have no back seat weight.

The front tanks move the CG backwards as they burn and the baggage tank obviously moves the CG forward while it burns, so my plan above keeps things balanced. If I had 200lbs in the rear seats and no copilot, then I would have to finagle it, and probably would have to depart with an empty baggage tank, which only costs me about 45 minutes of endurance. Since most flights are a couple of people in the front row, forward CG is more of an issue so I keep the baggage tank full.
 
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