Pilot threatened with arrest for helping NC victims of Hurricane Helene...excuse me?

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Add: so, do we disband FEMA and leave it to the states to fend for themselves or do we properly fund and oversee FEMA? And if the latter, with what money?
If FEMA had competent leadership they would have money. In fact Mayorkas stated earlier in the year that they were prepared and ready. Now he says they don't have the funds. Without getting tossed for being too political let me refrain and only say that I believe a lot of Americans are furious at where the money went ...
 
Is that article available somewhere that isn't behind a paywall?
Real Clear Politics?

Add: so, do we disband FEMA and leave it to the states to fend for themselves or do we properly fund and oversee FEMA? And if the latter, with what money?

I support the latter -IF it’s truly a problem. Lots of complaints about various government entities here - with no solutions proffered.
The real issue is that most of our government is underfunded, on purpose, because certain people like the narrative that government sucks. Well, if you underfund everything, it does suck... But then it still costs money while being completely ineffective. If you're going to do something, either properly fund it, or don't do it at all.

I've been thinking about how you solve situations like this. I was actually supposed to go down and help today and had to cancel due to non-aviation issues... But I wanted to maximize my impact, and it was somewhat difficult. I had to work with two different organizations - One who was collecting donated stuff to be flown in via fixed-wing aircraft and then distributed via helicopter, and another that was taking stuff delivered via ground to an airport down there and then using fixed-wing aircraft to fly it up to smaller airports in the mountains. It would have been nice to be able to say "Here's where I am and here's when I'm available, use me as best you can" rather than have to find multiple orgs myself. I was also hoping I'd be able to take someone and fly them back out of the area to family back up toward me or something like that, but they're very gun-shy about flying people because of cost-sharing considerations. (Scowling in the general direction of the FAA...)

I've been thinking how FEMA is such a giant bureaucracy that when they finally get on the ground in a crisis situation they can't get out of their own way... But there are SO many volunteers, first responders, military and government resources, etc that there has to be a better way to coordinate it all. It's really just a massive logistics operation, getting volunteers, rescue and recovery workers, and supplies in and getting rescued people out. But FEMA has proven incapable of really making things happen on the ground.

So, the real need is for the gov't to provide funding and/or infrastructure for the various organizations to be able to coordinate between each other and with the people in need. It also needs to ensure that the right people are dispatched, so for example if you need a large tree removed from a roadway you get someone who is trained and knows what they're doing, not Cletus who borrowed Billy-Bob's chainsaw and wants to get in on the action. (Cletus can maybe do some smaller jobs...)

One org I was working with was the Civilian Crisis Response Team, who seems to have a lot of training set up and available for people to learn useful skills before they are needed, and that should be another aspect of this.

At the end of the day, the need is to get bad government out of it, and the only way that is going to be done is by properly funding it, whatever "it" is... Because I think that all of the stuff I'm describing is stuff that FEMA is supposed to be doing.
Oh brother. The important part is the quote of a guy deployed from the Florida State Guard who's there and trying to help; I don't give a rip who prints what he says, it's HIS story. And if you'd bothered to read what he has to say, you might have realized it isn't a FEMA story.

But go ahead and keep your mind closed, as usual.
Unfortunately, for a site like that, I have to remain somewhat skeptical. At least some of what he said is false: https://www.wral.com/story/fact-checking-5-misleading-claims-about-helene-relief-efforts/21658052/

There's a lot of misinformation going around, and unfortunately it hurts the victims of the hurricane even worse because they don't donate things for fear that "FEMA is just confiscating everything" and such. The orgs that I was working with were having to actively refute that and encourage people to continue donating and volunteering, and that time could have been much better spent on the actual response.
 
That FL state guardsman is not incorrect in pointing at the archetype of bureaucratic sclerosis federal agencies are often saddled with. That said, his anti "title 10" bias a shows a bit much when he gets indignant about USA Today confusing him with Florida NATIONAL Guardsmen. I'm willing to give the journalists over at news aggregators like USA Today the benefit of the doubt. Most people don't know some states have "state guards": bona fide militias, not affiliated with the Federal National Guard Bureau, which is what most people think of when they think of Citizen airmen/guardian/soldier/sailors. That struck me a bit of the lady doth protest too much on the part of our Florida volunteer.
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Just sayin'....

--brk brk--

My heartfelt thoughts are with the people of Western North Carolina. Reminds me of the dark year of 2017, complete with potus throwing paper towels at some of mine. Son of geriatric survivors of Maria (and childhood survivor of Hugo and half dozen others myself), I'm well aware of the panic and heartache in waiting for that cell signal to come, taking weeks (for some it never came). Flights were shut down and I couldn't exactly drive 900 miles of atlantic ocean.

Which reminds me, another warm shout out to Amerijet and the rest of the 36th st mafia for helping me smuggle (yes smuggle, I had to represent myself as my father, no way otherwise to sign the airway bill absent electronic means) a fixed/anchor 9kW diesel generator to my parents so they could survive what would be a 2 month long affair to electric power restoration. Complete with all the post-trauma that resulted from the desperation and chaos of procurring anything in the intervening weeks among the innocent and the sociopaths/sadists alike. In fairness, I offered my parents a ticket out, but proud as we all are of our home, they decided to stick it out, good bad or stupid. I'm sure many in W Carolina lived/died under similar pretenses, though we know most who do do generally are acting under economic duress. No judgement either way from me on that front, as I said, I had parents with the financial ability to get the hell out of the way of Maria and they stayed. Digressing.


What I've seen so far from Tar Heels leads me to believe they're resourceful, grit-laden Americans who show no signs of backing down. I have no doubt they'll continue to show examples of resilience and heroism regardless of the speed of federal response. And to those who have provided assistance whether financial or emotional, the effort is not wasted. We're in this together folks, we all share a stake in this finnicky experiment that is our Union, imperfect as it may be.
 
Real Clear Politics?

Add: so, do we disband FEMA and leave it to the states to fend for themselves or do we properly fund and oversee FEMA? And if the latter, with what money?

I support the latter -IF it’s truly a problem. Lots of complaints about various government entities here - with no solutions proffered.
When government entities are found to be lacking or incompetent they always go to “well we don’t have enough funding, we need more funding”. the VA did this a lot. Education as well. Where is everybody else is always pointing to their culture of incompetence. And let’s not forget the apologist that will take the government side on everything because they feel that bigger government is the answer. Mostly because they themselves won’t do anything to help.
 
I flew FEMA around during Hurricane Irene. We had them over head The Outer Banks less than 12 hrs after the storm went through. I was actually impressed with them. They seemed to have a plan in place and I could see rescue efforts going on below us. Yes, It was a planning nightmare but that should be expected. No one knew where to deploy us because they don’t know what the area will look (weather / facilities). It’s all guess work. It’s not a simple task to deploy high maintenance, gas guzzling helicopters in austere conditions.

Most people also don’t realize the extent of damage and the sq / mi of coverage that govt agencies have to cover for something like this. This isn’t a tornado that demolished a town. NG assests could easily surround the area and provide assistance the same day. Helene has destroyed infrastructure going into several towns located in multiple states. Trying to coordinate relief efforts with poor comms and distances that stretch the limits of transportation is a daunting task.

As far as private civilian help during natural disasters. I’m all about it. Buddy of mine is flying a helicopter around there right now. The airspace is not that congested where we need to be worried about midairs. Perhaps the AAR on Helene, FEMA will do better in coordinating with civilian assets in the future.
 
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I love it that he says he wishes he just went back and got the guy. If he did and was arrested, he would have had a big payday! If I heard it right it was a Michigan fire fighter who threatened him? Figures.
I thought the same thing initially, but re-reading it looks like the Michigan people were the ones that wanted his help after his "incident"
 
I thought the same thing initially, but re-reading it looks like the Michigan people were the ones that wanted his help after his "incident"
Well good, happy the Michigan guys came through.
 
so, do we disband FEMA?

Yes
OK - I’ll play along: who else? Border Patrol? Secret Service? Medicare? EPA?

There’s a “project” that’s looking at next year that agrees with your suggestion. Be careful what you wish for, though. Vandalism isn’t the same as fixing things.
 
OK - I’ll play along: who else? Border Patrol? Secret Service? Medicare? EPA?

There’s a “project” that’s looking at next year that agrees with your suggestion. Be careful what you wish for, though. Vandalism isn’t the same as fixing things.
:frown2:
 
The problem from where I see it was DHS, not the agencies taken hostage in order to erect it. Nativist overreactions are rooted in such COAs, Homeland Security Act of 2002 in this case. At any rate , no reason the agencies couldn't be returned to their original cabinet umbrellas, and the DHS apparat shuttered. FEMA is collateral damage for the DHS clown show imo. Alas, the inside baseball of DHS is not for this forum so I'll digress. Again, I generalize my comments down to a "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater".

The only DHS subordinate I don't give a bye to is CBP; I am biased due to my anecdotal personal interactions with them. That's an agency straight up in contretempt with the rest of us folks who purport to play for the same team. The taliban showed us more professional courtesy exfiling out of Kabul, and I re-digress lol.
 
The media cycle, regarding FEMA.

1. Disaster occurs
2. Media accuses FEMA of being too bureaucratic, hindering aid.
3. FEMA reduces red tape
4. Media highlights the scam artists taking advantage of FEMA
5. FEMA tightens requirements
6. Go to Step 2.

Ron Wanttaja
 
The media cycle, regarding FEMA.

1. Disaster occurs
2. Media accuses FEMA of being too bureaucratic, hindering aid.
3. FEMA reduces red tape
4. Media highlights the scam artists taking advantage of FEMA
5. FEMA tightens requirements
6. Go to Step 2.

Ron Wanttaja
And, of course, confirmation bias comes into play
 
...Add: so, do we disband FEMA and leave it to the states to fend for themselves...
Exactly!

Wasn't that the way it was before Katrina? I've read how states were the primary disaster recovery service. After Katrina and the political damage that could be inflicted on an opponent, that changed. Happy to hear refuting data if you have any.

My base airport (N52) is actively working on relief efforts. It's impressive. They are servicing those truly in need.

Case and point, FEMA is helping those who can reach them. I'm hearing horror stories of communities FEMA cannot reach.

I'm a firm believer the closer decisions are made to those impacted by them the better those decisions will be. So yes, leave it to the states!

You and I have interacted before. It's all good. We see the world differently. That's what makes this country great.
 
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Exactly!

Wasn't that the way it was before Katrina? I've read how states were the primary disaster recovery service. After Katrina and the political damage that could be inflicted on an opponent, that changed. Happy to hear refuting data if you have any.

My base airport (N52) is actively working on relief efforts. It's impressive. They are servicing those truly in need.

Case and point, FEMA is helping those who can reach them. I'm hearing horror stories of communities FEMA cannot reach.

I'm a firm believer the closer decisions are made to those impacted by them the better those decisions will be. So yes, leave it to the states!

You and I have interacted before. It's all good. We see the world differently. That's what makes this country great.
A couple of observations:

First, the OP concerns a LOCAL Fire Dept (assistant) chief and really has nothing to do with FEMA, although there are a post or two which seem to confuse that reality.

Second, FEMA is a part of a system and was never intended to be a first responder. Local first responders, State disaster response assets, and the National Guard - also State assets in these situations - have their roles. Although roles overlap in some areas, there are some things certain groups are better equipped for and some things they’re not equipped to do at all. Much of FEMA’s role is “secondary” and oriented around the long term recovery.

If people want to get rid of FEMA, I’d really like to hear how they’d fill their shoes. Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and North Carolina would all need to keep a lot more cash AND materiel AND infrastructure on hand to fill the void - individually. Lots of redundancy compared with one entity. Maybe it would be better but it’s hard to imagine how.
 
It’s not a simple task to deploy high maintenance, gas guzzling helicopters in austere conditions.

Most people also don’t realize the extent of damage and the sq / mi of coverage that govt agencies have to cover for something like this. This isn’t a tornado that demolished a town. NG assests could easily surround the area and provide assistance the same day. Helene has destroyed infrastructure going into several towns located in multiple states. Trying to coordinate relief efforts with poor comms and distances that stretch the limits of transportation is a daunting task.
Most relevant post this thread IMHO. The fellow with the State Guard (non-pay status, semi-official?) had a point about reconnaissance. A lot of aerial searching in that large area would be ideal but may sadly not be achievable.
 
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The fellow with the State Guard (non-pay status, semi-official?

Non-pay when not activated. I believe they get paid a small amount plus reimbursement for expenses when activated by the governor.

Pretty official. The FSG is an official unit established by state statute and funded by the state. The intent was to have a guard that was not subject to Federal call-up like the National Guard, so that the state would not be deprived by a large NG activation during a state emergency. When large numbers of NG troops were called up for the WOT in the early 2000s, Florida found itself short-handed during emergencies.

From the statute: "The Florida State Guard is created and authorized as a component of the organized guard separate and apart from the Florida National Guard and shall be used exclusively within the state for the purposes stated in this section and may not be called, ordered, or drafted into the armed forces of the United States."
 
Non-pay when not activated. I believe they get paid a small amount plus reimbursement for expenses when activated by the governor.

Pretty official. The FSG is an official unit established by state statute and funded by the state. The intent was to have a guard that was not subject to Federal call-up like the National Guard, so that the state would not be deprived by a large NG activation during a state emergency. When large numbers of NG troops were called up for the WOT in the early 2000s, Florida found itself short-handed during emergencies.

From the statute: "The Florida State Guard is created and authorized as a component of the organized guard separate and apart from the Florida National Guard and shall be used exclusively within the state for the purposes stated in this section and may not be called, ordered, or drafted into the armed forces of the United States."
I recall working with TX State Guard once while with a TXARNG Air Cav Troop. They wore uniforms and could ride our helicopters, observe training, and coordinate periodically. Mostly local LEOs, detectives, etc. Actually a good group of professional folks, but I think 10 personnel was called a company. Weren't many of them. You have clearly identified the rationale for such an organization.
 
Most relevant post this thread IMHO. The fellow with the State Guard (non-pay status, semi-official?) had a point about reconnaissance. A lot of aerial searching in that large area would be ideal but may sadly not be achievable.

Also demonstrates the need for federal help. We were active duty basically flying BDA for FEMA big wigs. That frees up NC NG helos for SAR. Same thing for forest fires. Bambi Bucket is primarily a NG task but active can assist in other areas.
 
Also demonstrates the need for federal help. We were active duty basically flying BDA for FEMA big wigs. That frees up NC NG helos for SAR. Same thing for forest fires. Bambi Bucket is primarily a NG task but active can assist in other areas.
Interesting point...82nd Airborne sent elements to Asheville vicinity. Wonder what their mission orders are?
 
FWIW, NY has a separate state guard, too. It's not just a southern state thing. No idea what their structure is, but have worked with them on public service events and small scale incidents as part of me working with county resources.
 
101st is on the way as well.

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Latest crap about FEMA help... Send your request via the internet, give us your phone number and we will get back to you in about 10 days or so. Be prepared with certain documents. and your photo id's

From yesterday, an interesting article: https://twitchy.com/dougp/2024/10/0...l-observe-social-distance-guidelines-n2401787
That's been standard for years, and that's specifically about filing a claim for reimbursement of expenses such as hotels, lost food from power outages, etc. How else are people supposed to make claims?
 
Some may dispute this assertion.
I'm sure they would. "GoVeRnMeNt BaD" and all. I hope that after those people die, they have to go work for Jacksonville Center.
Govt underfunded? Just be happy we don’t get ALL the govt we pay for….
The problem is, if we spend $80 billion on a government program that needs $100 billion to work, then we have wasted $80 billion.

Yeah, it's not quite that simple, but there is a minimum amount to get a task accomplished effectively. Maybe you can accomplish the task 80% of the way for 90% of the money and so on, but you're still wasting money.

IMO, either fund the dang thing (whatever it is) enough to do it right, or don't fund it at all.
 
I've heard of Ryan McBeth for years but have never watched his videos. Pretty good rundown from his perspective:

 
FEMA can't help a town due to a road sign....More reason FEMA needs to be overhauled and and staffed with people that have a "make things work" attitude over what is seemingly prevalent out in the field.

 
What if the “Road Closed” sign was there because the road was unsafe to be on for their vehicles and the sign was warning of the risk? They couldn’t get through because of the hazard to life the sign warned of - not the sign per se?

Could ANY agency improve? Sure - they’re all made up of fallible humans. Is EVERY situation a case of “government bad”? Some people will ALWAYS see it that way - and then offer no real solution except to vandalize it by simply tearing it down.

Add: these are fellow Americans working in dangerous situations to help fellow Americans. Little different than first responders, in many situations.
 
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FEMA can't help a town due to a road sign....More reason FEMA needs to be overhauled and and staffed with people that have a "make things work" attitude over what is seemingly prevalent out in the field.


In many of these places, there are no roads anymore, so what good does driving around the sign do them?
 
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