Tesla Pickup Unveil

[Salty]

I would be willing to bet, it is because you have the muscle memory for it. I highly doubt there have been any studies on the effect of single peddle with regards to safety for younger drivers. Based on having seen how people react with accidents, does not give me much confidence. I hope you know why, people are not taught to drive with the accelerator with the right foot and the brake with the left? (Yes, racing, and specialized defensive driving schools teach it, I am talking for the average driver). People push both pedals when they want to emergency stop. With single pedal, they have no muscle memory to move off the accelerator in an emergency.

Tim

It works exactly like how a gas car works, with the exception that you slow faster when you lift the “accelerator” pedal. What is there to get confused about?

There’s also the automated system that emergency brakes for you based on data from the cameras and lidar. That system will also steer to avoid a collision. I’ve never allowed it to do it for me, but I’d bet it works well enough to more than compensate for the problem you are imagining.

 

[Ed Haywood]

It works exactly like how a gas car works, with the exception that you slow faster when you lift the “accelerator” pedal.

A good analogy would be driving around in 1st or second gear in a gas car.

 

[Bob Noel]

has anyone ever engaged the clutch.... when driving an automatic?

fortunately, no one was behind us when "my friend" did that...

 

[FastEddieB]

Bit of a “mea culpa”*…

In normal driving, one very rarely needs to use the brake pedal at all. I think one may develop an aversion to actually using the brake pedal to stop. At least I have.

In our hit-and-run from a couple years ago posted previously, I think that aversion led to me allowing our Tesla to coast just beyond the stop line for the intersection.

So, I can see how a bad habit can develop.

*In this particular case, I think our car’s position just beyond the stop line minimized damage from the collision. Dumb luck, but if we had been holding before the stop line, the impact would have been to our left front corner, not a sideswipe of the left rear door, potentially causing a lot more damage, and possibly injury, from a frontal impact. In any case, if you followed that thread, the side cameras footage gave is the offender’s tag, and he was subsequently charged and convicted of leaving the scene.

 

[Larry in TN]

On a Tesla, the one-pedal braking is a nice, conservative, comfortable deceleration. With more spirited driving the brake pedal would be used regularly. You also have to use the brake pedal when putting the car in gear and putting it back into Park, so you won't forget where it is.

 

[tspear]

Just out of curiosity, have you driven a Tesla and used regen braking? Or are your concerns based on what you imagine it might be like?

Yes, Both brothers have Teslas (An X and Y model). Parents have a Mach-E, older brother has previously had Leafs and Bolts dating back to 2011. For us, it has always been about ditching the gas station. I rented a BMW M50 EV for three weeks in Tahoe this year, and I have rented multiple other EVs for one or two days on short trips.
I still detest single pedal. I also still believe, it is an accident waiting to happen.

Tim

 

[tspear]

It works exactly like how a gas car works, with the exception that you slow faster when you lift the “accelerator” pedal. What is there to get confused about?

There’s also the automated system that emergency brakes for you based on data from the cameras and lidar. That system will also steer to avoid a collision. I’ve never allowed it to do it for me, but I’d bet it works well enough to more than compensate for the problem you are imagining.

No it does not work the same. You let off the gas pedal and the engine still provides minimal additional force allowing you to effectively coast significantly further, and the car will never stop until it runs out of gas or goes up a steep enough hill. With single pedal, the car is actively deaccelerating the car when you release the accelerator pedal and will bring the car to a stop. This allows the driver in normal situations to never need to touch the brake pedal.

This effectively means the driver has no muscle memory in an emergency situation to press the brake.

Therefore, you are looking at emergency brake assist to compensate for a user experience failure. e.g. you are trying to use technology address a problem that technology has created. This is just bad design.

Tim

 

[Velocity173]

I don’t like single pedal. There’s the argument that VW uses that in most cases, coasting with light regen will put more charge in the batt over hard regen. I’m no engineer so I can’t dispute that claim. I just prefer to coast and it’s better for preventing brake corrosion. Of course one pedal saves on pads and rotors though.

 

[Salty]

It's just another way. There's nothing inherently unsafe about it. JMO.

Personally, I love it for commuting. Would turn it off when driving sporty.

 

[SoonerAviator]

has anyone ever engaged the clutch.... when driving an automatic?

fortunately, no one was behind us when "my friend" did that...

I'm not even sure what that means.

 

[Bob Noel]

I'm not even sure what that means.

visualize what the left foot does when attempting to engage the clutch....

 

[SoonerAviator]

visualize what the left foot does when attempting to engage the clutch....

Do you mean disengage? The clutch is engaged whenever your foot is off of the pedal. I've never done it while actually driving, but I have stomped an imaginary 3rd pedal when going to start an automatic car after having driven a manual for a while.

 

[2-Bit Speed]

Do you mean disengage? The clutch is engaged whenever your foot is off of the pedal. I've never done it while actually driving, but I have stomped an imaginary 3rd pedal when going to start an automatic car after having driven a manual for a while.

I think he's referring to someone accidentally stomping on the brake pedal with their left foot, confusing it with for a (non-existent) clutch pedal.

 

[Daleandee]

Do you mean disengage? The clutch is engaged whenever your foot is off of the pedal. I've never done it while actually driving, but I have stomped an imaginary 3rd pedal when going to start an automatic car after having driven a manual for a while.

Yulp, I've been guilty of reaching for the shifter in my automatic to take it out of gear before starting while searching for the third pedal.

I also have an older VW Beetle and getting in it after driving my 5 speed Ranger found me sometimes reaching to put that 4 speed VW into 5th gear ...

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

No it does not work the same. You let off the gas pedal and the engine still provides minimal additional force allowing you to effectively coast significantly further, and the car will never stop until it runs out of gas or goes up a steep enough hill. With single pedal, the car is actively deaccelerating the car when you release the accelerator pedal and will bring the car to a stop. This allows the driver in normal situations to never need to touch the brake pedal.

This effectively means the driver has no muscle memory in an emergency situation to press the brake.

Therefore, you are looking at emergency brake assist to compensate for a user experience failure. e.g. you are trying to use technology address a problem that technology has created. This is just bad design.

Tim

Echoing another poster.

Have you personally driven single pedal for any length of time to develop the required muscle memory, not just renting on a weekend once in awhile?

Even on a single pedal vehicle, the brake is regularly used unless your right foot game is so good you can estimate your halt point at every stop line from long and varying distances out.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Even on a single pedal vehicle, the brake is regularly used unless your right foot game is so good you can estimate your halt point at every stop line from long and varying distances out.

When I first got my model 3, the regen braking took a bit of learning. I tended to let off a bit early and come up short. Now it's just reflexive. Coast to the halt point, then tap on the brake to stop the roll if necessary.

I drive 3 vehicles, one of which is an EV. Zero adjustment needed when moving between.

Some things get over analyzed.

 

[Bob Noel]

Do you mean disengage? The clutch is engaged whenever your foot is off of the pedal. I've never done it while actually driving, but I have stomped an imaginary 3rd pedal when going to start an automatic car after having driven a manual for a while.

yup - disengage the clutch by pressing the clutch pedal.

"my friend" had been driving his standard for several years ....

 

[Zeldman]

I have stomped an imaginary 3rd pedal when going to start an automatic car after having driven a manual for a while.

Done that a few times.

Also done a few times while driving and talking on the phone (hands free) I have reached for that shift knob that wasn't there...

 

[tspear]

Echoing another poster.

Have you personally driven single pedal for any length of time to develop the required muscle memory, not just renting on a weekend once in awhile?

Even on a single pedal vehicle, the brake is regularly used unless your right foot game is so good you can estimate your halt point at every stop line from long and varying distances out.

Three week rental on vacation. And this was after I have driven a single pedal EV a lot.

Giving examples of people who have driven for years, and have the primacy of learning to drive with a dedicated brake pedal, does not apply.
You already have in this thread the example of someone used to a stick shift hitting the brake instead of a clutch. Fundamentally, driving is very much about "muscle memory".

I am not concerned about us old people on the forum who have decades of driving experience. My question is about the young people getting a license today in a vehicle that does not require a brake pedal.

Tim

 

[Ed Haywood]

in a vehicle that does not require a brake pedal.

No such vehicle exists.

 

[EdFred]

No such vehicle exists.

There are vehicles without brake pedals.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

There are vehicles without brake pedals.

Because I know you, I must ask:

Vehicles that are street legal?

Signed,

A fellow pedant.

 

[Salty]

a vehicle with no brake pedal. Although I don’t see the point.

 

[Salty]

Another one.

 

[weilke]

Finally saw one. Flat green wrap. I guess they hadn't applied the stencil for the WM logo yet.

 

[Bob Noel]

Something about this comic is familar...

can't quite put my finger on it...

 

[chartbundle]

Being that this appears to be the EV Pickup thread...

It has arrived... my not-cybertruck.. I give you the Chevrolet Avalanche EV... wait, no, they called it the Silverado EV, never mind.

And in only 3 short days it will have enough charge to drive it again after I brought it home from the dealer.
It arrived early and I didn't even get my 240V outlet installed, let alone the 'real' charger. Need to at least slap the outlet together today.

 

[Salty]

lol oh yeah. charging a truck on 110 will be worse than watching paint dry.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Being that this appears to be the EV Pickup thread...

It has arrived... my not-cybertruck.. I give you the Chevrolet Avalanche EV... wait, no, they called it the Silverado EV, never mind.
View attachment 131451
And in only 3 short days it will have enough charge to drive it again after I brought it home from the dealer.
It arrived early and I didn't even get my 240V outlet installed, let alone the 'real' charger. Need to at least slap the outlet together today.

You might have a 20A outlet. Newer building codes require one in the garage. Still slow, but a bit faster than standard 10A outlets, if your charging cable has an adapter for it. Looks like this:

 

[chartbundle]

You might have a 20A outlet. Newer building codes require one in the garage. Still slow, but a bit faster than standard 10A outlets, if your charging cable has an adapter for it. Looks like this:

View attachment 131455

You think GM would include a fancy cable that could actually use my 20A garage circuits? At least they included the 14-50 so once that's installed I can use it.
Normal outlets are 15A, charge at 12A due to the 80% rule. I did find a setting that apparently the truck defaults to 8A... Switched that to 12 and shaved a whole day off the charge.

 

[Salty]

.6 more kw isn't going to help much. You need, bare minimum, 5kw to charge a beast like that. I bet even with 5kw it's still > 12 hours to go from 20% to 80% on that sucker.

 

[chartbundle]

.6 more kw isn't going to help much. You need, bare minimum, 5kw to charge a beast like that. I bet even with 5kw it's still > 12 hours to go from 20% to 80% on that sucker.

+60% is roughly 120kWh, so 24 hours at 5kW.
Needless to say the actual charger is a 80A(19.2kW) on a 100A circuit once it's installed. Which luckily just fits in the load calculation.

 

[Salty]

+60% is roughly 120kWh, so 24 hours at 5kW.
Needless to say the actual charger is a 80A(19.2kW) on a 100A circuit once it's installed. Which luckily just fits in the load calculation.

Wow. Even worse than I thought. Your neighbors lights are gonna dim everytime you get home.

 

[Larry in TN]

And in only 3 short days it will have enough charge to drive it again after I brought it home from the dealer.
It arrived early and I didn't even get my 240V outlet installed, let alone the 'real' charger. Need to at least slap the outlet together today.

Nice. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts as you get to know your new truck. I haven't seen much online content on it yet.

What I have seen is that it wins all the real-world towing tests. Sounds like the best choice for someone who wants to do some towing with their EV truck.

As to the 20A charging, I tested my Model 3 at 15A and 20A 120V charging. 15A was 4mph, 20A was 7mph, so probably about 50% faster charging.

That thing has a big battery. Make a stop at a CCS station and get it up to a high-ish SoC then use the Level 1 charging at home to replace what you use. Should be enough to keep you going for a while while you wait for the Level 2 charging to be installed.

 

[Larry in TN]

Wow. Even worse than I thought. Your neighbors lights are gonna dim everytime you get home.

It's a very big battery. If he plugs it in whenever it is home, it shouldn't be too bad. Most people aren't going to use anywhere near its capacity on a daily basis.

 

[Velocity173]

I’ve always liked the Silverado over the Cybertruck. Even though I’m not a truck guy, that thing has excellent range and I actually think the feature to power your entire home for 3 days could add serious utility.

I use 110 with my Model X almost exclusively and that works fine for 99 % of my driving. I set 12 amps (default) at work because it’s a 20 amp breaker and set only 10 amps at home as a safety buffer because it’s a 15 amp breaker. I drive a total of 62 miles a day for work and generally it’s still fully (85 %) charged when I’m ready to leave. Anything for greater distances is simple, I use the closest supercharger.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Being that this appears to be the EV Pickup thread...

It has arrived... my not-cybertruck.. I give you the Chevrolet Avalanche EV... wait, no, they called it the Silverado EV, never mind.

Congrats!

I didn't know much about the Silverado EV, but it looks like they've done some really cool stuff with it. Then I saw the price tag... Yeeeow! That's pretty close to the Cybertruck Foundation Series price. But everything else looks fantastic! The large frunk, the ability to extend the bed into the back seat of the cab AND the tailgate with the extra bits, the range, the towing capacity all make this a welcome entrant to the EV market.

And in only 3 short days it will have enough charge to drive it again after I brought it home from the dealer.
It arrived early and I didn't even get my 240V outlet installed, let alone the 'real' charger. Need to at least slap the outlet together today.

Is this your first EV? Kinda sounds like it. You don't need to wait until it's full to drive it, you just need enough range to get to the next place you charge. FWIW, my mom bought a Tesla Model Y last year and decided not to add 240V charging. She's using the mobile connector to plug into a 120V outlet that was already in the garage. If you don't drive a lot of miles, it's doable.

That said, it looks like the efficiency of the SilEVrado is pretty bad - Only 63 MPGe, so it takes 53 kWh to go 100 miles. That means for each hour you're plugged into 120V at 12A, you're getting a hair under 2.5 miles of range. Yikes.

You think GM would include a fancy cable that could actually use my 20A garage circuits? At least they included the 14-50 so once that's installed I can use it.
Normal outlets are 15A, charge at 12A due to the 80% rule. I did find a setting that apparently the truck defaults to 8A... Switched that to 12 and shaved a whole day off the charge.

That is one annoying thing about GM's 120V charging (former Volt and Bolt owner here). It always defaults to 8A every time you plug it into 120V, and switching the setting to 12A doesn't stick - You have to switch it manually every time. That's one thing Tesla got right - Tesla ramps up slowly and pays attention to what it's getting in an attempt to auto-detect possible issues with the plug; if it detects significant resistance or other issues it will automatically limit the charging speed. GM took the easy way out by just always limiting it and not bothering to pay attention, putting the onus on the user to increase it, but it's a pain for the user that way. Luckily, 240V doesn't do that.

+60% is roughly 120kWh, so 24 hours at 5kW.
Needless to say the actual charger is a 80A(19.2kW) on a 100A circuit once it's installed. Which luckily just fits in the load calculation.

Whoa, this is crazy. Per fueleconomy.gov, EPA range is 450 miles and economy is 63MPGe. That's only a 1.87 miles per kWh, meaning they must have a battery that is 240kWh usable. That is freaking massive, close to double that of the Cybertruck. No wonder it's so expensive!

I am curious... Does it use the SAE-CCS connector, or the NACS connector? If it's SAE-CCS, did they include the NACS adapter with it? (In the image below, SAE-CCS is the big one on the left, NACS is the small one on the right)

 

[flyingcheesehead]

You might have a 20A outlet. Newer building codes require one in the garage. Still slow, but a bit faster than standard 10A outlets, if your charging cable has an adapter for it. Looks like this:

View attachment 131455

The vast majority of EVSEs don't use 20A 120V - There are so many 15A outlets, and badly installed 20A outlets, that the extra bit isn't worth the risk.

Some do offer 20A and 30A (TT30) capabilities, but they're fairly rare. Tesla does offer a 5-20 adapter but not a TT30 currently.

As to the 20A charging, I tested my Model 3 at 15A and 20A 120V charging. 15A was 4mph, 20A was 7mph, so probably about 50% faster charging.

More amperage does not improve charging efficiency, so going from 15 (12) to 20 (16) amps should get you 33% faster charging. More voltage does improve efficiency a little. Were you plugging into the same outlet, or different outlets?

I’ve always liked the Silverado over the Cybertruck. Even though I’m not a truck guy, that thing has excellent range and I actually think the feature to power your entire home for 3 days could add serious utility.

Cybertruck can do that too. I hope Tesla adds it to the rest of their models, it's a cool feature.

 

[chartbundle]

It's a very big battery. If he plugs it in whenever it is home, it shouldn't be too bad. Most people aren't going to use anywhere near its capacity on a daily basis.

This is my only vehicle so I sized the charger for my worst case, also fairly rural. So I figure I get home at 10PM and need 70% for some reason by the next morning. If you have another car, or a consistent commute then you'll not likely need to optimize quite so much.

Whoa, this is crazy. Per fueleconomy.gov, EPA range is 450 miles and economy is 63MPGe. That's only a 1.87 miles per kWh, meaning they must have a battery that is 240kWh usable. That is freaking massive, close to double that of the Cybertruck. No wonder it's so expensive!

I am curious... Does it use the SAE-CCS connector, or the NACS connector? If it's SAE-CCS, did they include the NACS adapter with it? (In the image below, SAE-CCS is the big one on the left, NACS is the small one on the right)

Most see 2-2.1mi/kWh. Which is pretty consistent with my drive home, especially once I get used to regen instead of brakes. I don't know if GM has ever said officially, but it's a 205-220kWh battery.

It's still J1772/CCS. No idea if the 2025 models will make the switch or not. NACS, well, Tesla Superchargers are not yet enabled for GM. I believe you can order the adapter for $25 shipping if you have a GM EV. Supposed to be enabled any day now... for about the last 5 months.

 

[Larry in TN]

This is my only vehicle so I sized the charger for my worst case, also fairly rural. So I figure I get home at 10PM and need 70% for some reason by the next morning. If you have another car, or a consistent commute then you'll not likely need to optimize quite so much.

Sure. It depends entirely on how many miles you tend to drive each day.

12,000 mi/yr is less than 33 miles per day. That can easily be handled with Level 1 charging. Those who drive significantly more will definitely need Level 2 at home to avoid inconvenient charging stops.

I have the Tesla Wall Connector which charges at 48A/240V. I don't need it, but its price dropped to $350, for a short time, a while back. Couldn't pass that up. I don't need anywhere near that speed, though. It does look really nice on the wall of my garage.