When I took a tour of Oakland Center many years ago, I found out that they're really in Fremont. If I call them "Fremont Center" some day, do you think they would appreciate the joke, think (i.e, find out) that I'm a dufus, or just go "Huh???"
ZOA Question
- Thread starter Palmpilot
- Start date
vkhosid
Cleared for Takeoff
Technically, they're in Hayward...
???
The FAA seems to think they're still in Fremont.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ice_units/air_traffic_services/artcc/oakland/
The FAA seems to think they're still in Fremont.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ice_units/air_traffic_services/artcc/oakland/
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2005
- Messages
- 9,486
- Display Name
Display name:
Pilawt
"Los Angeles" ARTCC is in Palmdale, a 71-mile drive from KLAX.
vkhosid
Cleared for Takeoff
My apologies....apparently, I can't read a map
Seanaldinho
Pattern Altitude
Most of them are located outside of the city proper, the idea being in the event of an attack they will be protected.
vkhosid
Cleared for Takeoff
LOL....or, the more reasonable explanation...it was cheaper to be located in the ****hole that is fremont, than it was in oakland?
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
You might get any reaction. My guess is most likely it would come across as kinda dufusey. It never happened to me but I probably woulda thought, big deal, so you know where we are.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Boston Center isn't even in Massachusetts. It's in New Hampshire
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,621
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
That's actually what we we're told in ATC school as well. It's an old Cold War thing. They wanted the ARTCCs located out away from major cities in the event of a nuclear war.
JAX Center, not even in Jacksonville. It's in the middle of nowhere in Hillard FL.
denverpilot
Tied Down
I've heard that OWT too. Of course, if they were silly enough to believe controllers were going to hang around and do stuff at them in the fallout and later nuclear winter, well... anyway.
Don't forget: North Dakota still has enough nukes to plaster most of the planet. Try not to **** them off.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,621
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
I've heard that OWT too. Of course, if they were silly enough to believe controllers were going to hang around and do stuff at them in the fallout and later nuclear winter, well... anyway.
Don't forget: North Dakota still has enough nukes to plaster most of the planet. Try not to **** them off.
Well if it's been hardened properly, I suppose they expected them to be around...for a little while at least.
http://www.zlcalumni.com/history-through-1966
denverpilot
Tied Down
I think any sense of duty one felt would be pretty much over with in the first 24 hours. If that long.
He old joke applies. Mechanical and electrical engineers make weapons, civil engineers make targets.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,621
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
I think any sense of duty one felt would be pretty much over with in the first 24 hours. If that long.
He old joke applies. Mechanical and electrical engineers make weapons, civil engineers make targets.
I don't know about sense of duty but if I found an "aviation soul mate" in the facility, I could continue on living in the nuclear aftermath.
My understanding is that Fremont is a lot less of a xxxxhole than Oakland!
denverpilot
Tied Down
I don't know anything about either one but I suspect once you need waders, a full face mask, and a septic truck, the differences don't matter much after that.
I don't know anything about either one but I suspect once you need waders, a full face mask, and a septic truck, the differences don't matter much after that.
The 2013 crime rate in Oakland was almost seven times what it was in Fremont.
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Oakland-California.html
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Fremont-California.html
I've heard that Oakland has been improving since then, but I don't have the numbers.
Harold Rutila
Pre-takeoff checklist
If I call the Detroit Pistons the Auburn Hills Pistons...see where this is going?
Timbeck2
Final Approach
The Greater Cincinnati Airport is in Kentucky.
Everskyward
Experimenter
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2005
- Messages
- 33,453
- Display Name
Display name:
Everskyward
Kansas City is in Missouri.
vkhosid
Cleared for Takeoff
But to answer your question, Oakland is one of those "hip/cool" places to live...I'm willing to bet rent is substantially higher in oakland than in fremont...no matter how good your chances are of being murdered.
Plus, Fremont is more flat, I think...less hill/mountains to get in the way of radio transmissions.
Caramon13
Pattern Altitude
Everskyward
Experimenter
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2005
- Messages
- 33,453
- Display Name
Display name:
Everskyward
I never thought of Oakland as being "hip" or "cool" but there are good neighborhoods and bad. The better areas are towards the hills. They have also cleaned up the area around Lake Merritt.
vkhosid
Cleared for Takeoff
Don't get me wrong...from someone who has lived in SF for close to 27 years, I still see Oakland as a crime-ravaged city. The exorbitant prices of living in SF have forced a lot of people out to oakland, and the neighborhoods are slowly improving because of the gentrification. As a matter of fact, the hipster population of oakland has exploded in recent years. With all of this, rent is steadily rising as well.
And, as we all know, hipsters always live in the cool part of town.
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2005
- Messages
- 9,486
- Display Name
Display name:
Pilawt
... "The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim" ... ?
Everskyward
Experimenter
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2005
- Messages
- 33,453
- Display Name
Display name:
Everskyward
I'm not part of the hipster scene, but I have relatives who live in the Oakland hills and it's pretty nice. I know they get odd looks when they say they live in Oakland, though. My family is native to the SF area. In fact I have a condo in SF. I also learned how to fly at Oakland airport many years ago, and was back for SB50 (the passengers went, not us). They put us up in a hotel on the estuary. I was wondering about the neighborhood, but as long as you stayed on the estuary side it was pretty nice.
vkhosid
Cleared for Takeoff
Fair enough...but you know that saying the Oakland Hills are the same thing as Oakland is like saying that Henderson is the same as Las Vegas....
While TECHNICALLY, Oakland Hills may be part of Oakland, they are two VASTLY different places.
Next time you're in town, let me know. We'll grab a beer.
There are some very nice neighborhoods in Oakland, and some very not nice ones, so I'm sure that rents vary widely within the city. As for the terrain situation and its effect on radio propagation, there's no significant difference. If anything, Fremont has higher terrain nearby than Oakland does.
Washington Center is in Leesburg, VA.
Nobody ever gets things right in the press. We had a story about a controller at ZDC arrested on drug charges. Turns out he was a flight service specialist at the Leesburg AFSS. Next I saw an article on central flow but the pictures are the PCT Tracon (the one taken the one time in it's history when the room lights were on).
Nobody ever gets things right in the press. We had a story about a controller at ZDC arrested on drug charges. Turns out he was a flight service specialist at the Leesburg AFSS. Next I saw an article on central flow but the pictures are the PCT Tracon (the one taken the one time in it's history when the room lights were on).
CRAFT
Pre-Flight
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2011
- Messages
- 64
- Display Name
Display name:
CRAFT
I think any sense of duty one felt would be pretty much over with in the first 24 hours. If that long.
He old joke applies. Mechanical and electrical engineers make weapons, civil engineers make targets.
Interesting, when I worked at a known primary target (Minuteman ICBM site) abandoning my duty or duty station post strike never crossed my mind.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Well a couple of assumptions were in my comment about leaving the Center...
- Massive destruction, not localized. As in MAD type scenarios.
- Whatever we call SCATANA today had been implemented. Nothing's flying anyway except your buddies in uniforms. You guys have AWACS and similar assets, you probably don't need the Center kids hanging around and they probably wouldn't last long anyway.
- Controllers say at, ZDV, take a gander from the parking lot and see the horizon glowing to the south (DEN) and north (CYS / FE Warren) and decide there's really no point in hanging around waiting for a nice northerly or southerly wind shift, and the only way "out" might be up US 287 toward Laramie, if they feel like surviving.
- If they feel like not surviving, a drive north up I-25 a ways toward FE Warren should take care of that in a relatively painful and gross week or so of vomiting and losing hair, skin, and other lovely maladies.
You guys down in the holes may have had it a little better than folks in a "blast certified" blockhouse on the surface... at least for a while. And assuming the yield assumptions were correct about how far down y'all needed to be.
I always got a kick out of knowing before the Bell System breakup that numerous COs for both local and AT&T were "hardened", including some of the microwave sites feeding the kids down at NORAD. I have the engineering drawings of the outhouse used at those sites, and I'll be the first to say it'd be stripped off the mountain and gone... it wasn't rated... so if you hung out inside and survived the attack at one of the microwave sites, indoors, you could come outside to enjoy the effects of the air burst that wiped the tower off the face of the earth... yay! Let's go outside! LOL... but it was fun to see the "Fallout Shelter" signs at telecom sites and radio sites in the 90s, all left there long after AT&T sold the place. Always had nice big generator diesel tanks at those sites...
But hey, we've gotten better at this emergency management stuff. Remember our latest one where they told us duct tape would save us? ROFLMAO...
Us above-ground-pounder civvies on the surface never had much of a good option, back in those days. And here I say that like "it's over", but of course, it really isn't. We just don't get the weekly "Alert" drills from the city sirens anymore, and nobody believes "Duck and Cover" crap like they might have back then. Glad y'all would stay in the hole, but my assumption above was that you'd already launched...
Unlimited nuclear war is a total **** sandwich no matter how or where you are.
Just get under your desk. I learned that in 6th grade!
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
This! Me too...
PaulMillner
Line Up and Wait
Richard,
Something to keep in mind...
In a typical year, 100 people are murdered in Oakland.
Oakland is 78 square miles... 95 of those 100 murders take place in a 10 block by 10 block area, or less than one square mile.
My advice? Stay out of that drug dealers' den... Buy your drugs elsewhere, and you'll be fine.
Paul, in Oakland
I have absolutely no concern about going to my cousin's house in Oakland. Like I said, "There are some very nice neighborhoods in Oakland, and some very not nice ones..."
Unit74
Final Approach
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2014
- Messages
- 6,992
- Display Name
Display name:
Unit74
I don't think the name has anything to do with where they are at. Its the sector they are controlling. Its all over remote radios and VoIP these days... Hence,"Switch to my frequency" when you talking to the same guy but crossed from one sector to another.
Gucci Pilot
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2014
- Messages
- 2,066
- Display Name
Display name:
Gucci Pilot
Those two.