You're flying along in IMC and have a complete instrument failure. But...

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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This was a pilots and paws mission and you happened to be transporting 1000s of butterflies to someone that adopted them.

You can't see a damn thing and all gauges have failed.
You look quickly in the back seat and see hundreds of coffee cans with holes punched in the lids so the butterflies can breathe.

You decide to open all the coffee cans because if you are going to die, you would like to have the smell of coffee on the way down just because.

Oh no, the butterflies are escaping, they are flying all around the cockpit every which way...

Could you try to orient the plane somewhat relative to the butterflies that are airborne and keep the plane level-ish?

Granted butterflies are not going to be perfectly vertical but would they being neutrally buoyant be able to discern up from down regardless of G force since they are not in any way affixed to the aircraft?
 
Do the butterflies have gyroscopes?

What if you were transporting cats and ducks?
 
If they are flying instead of sitting, then you have no extra weight and climb above IMC.
 
Its a silly premise but the question is legit.
Would a flying bee, fly, butterfly, etc maintain their proper attitude relative to the earth if you were banking 60 degrees and coordinated.
 
how do insects react to lower pressure situations?

If I find a bee can I climb to 12,500ft and hope he dies in less than 30 minutes?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Its a silly premise but the question is legit.....
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yes, yes, absolutely a legitimate question............
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I suspect insects react to perceived gravity the same way we do. As noted in another thread, a depressurization at a high altitude can drop a wasp to within foot smashing range.
 
cowman said:
What kind of butterflies?
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I just read that butterflies won't fly unless their body temp is in the mid 80s so I'm assuming you'd be screwed if you're relying on those lil bastards to help u.
 
They are inside and the airmass inside is moving at the same speed as the aircraft. Go up, they go down, go down, they are plastered to the ceiling.
 
Geez this is an easy one....CPA calls for deploying the red handle in the presence of butterflies. :wonderwoman:
 
The butterflies will react to perceived gravity and try to fly relative to that as their "ground level". If you are in IMC with no gyros, your fluctuating attitude would cause centrifugal forces to be superimposed on the force of gravity, hence changing the perceived "down" direction. Therefore, the butterflies would be of no help to you in determining "true up", not any more than a weight bobbing on a string (with some damping). To test this, you can release them while turning in a constant bank, and you should see them flying relative to the floor of the aircraft and not the ground (assuming coordinated turn).
 
Is the compass still working? If so, turn south and use it to stay wings level. Then use the butterflies postion in the cabin to determine pitch.

But for the love of god don't have anything sweet in the cabin or you might find yourself with all your butterflies trying to feast before they die...
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Could you try to orient the plane somewhat relative to the butterflies that are airborne and keep the plane level-ish?

Granted butterflies are not going to be perfectly vertical but would they being neutrally buoyant be able to discern up from down regardless of G force since they are not in any way affixed to the aircraft?
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Are they Monarch butterflies? If so, they'll take you to Central America for the winter but will overfly Texas. But if you want to stop in TX you could always pull right? But the Monarchs will continue onward for the border, unless Trump gets elected and then I don't know of they could clear the wall he's gonna build. But they like home brew so you wouldn't mind them crashing your place for the winter would you?

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6PC broached this topic to me while we were having dinner last week. As you can imagine, it was an entertaining conversation what with us trying to determine which, if any animals, insects, or anything else in nature could serve in this way. My conclusion was that nothing would help, but Bryan demanded actual testing and data.

In fact, we were proposing so many different theories that the guy at the next table turned to us and told us that if we ever actually tested "that butterfly idea" he definitely wanted to see the YouTube video...
 
RussR said:
6PC broached this topic to me while we were having dinner last week. As you can imagine, it was an entertaining conversation what with us trying to determine which, if any animals, insects, or anything else in nature could serve in this way. My conclusion was that nothing would help, but Bryan demanded actual testing and data.

In fact, we were proposing so many different theories that the guy at the next table turned to us and told us that if we ever actually tested "that butterfly idea" he definitely wanted to see the YouTube video...
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This is 100% true.

I forgot all about the guy at the other table.
 
Wasn't there a space shuttle flight where they took bees, moths and butterflies in space to see how they flew?
 
Zeldman said:
Wasn't there a space shuttle flight where they took bees, moths and butterflies in space to see how they flew?
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I've seen a video of cats in a zero-g airplane. They look pretty confused.
 
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Spatial disorientation with instrument failure and you had time to open coffee cans?

I would think that you.d be better of telling the butterflies that they're doomed, and start dropping coffee cans from the ceiling of the cabin to see if they fall straight down or at an angle to check your angle. Or better yet, open a coffee can and pee into it (cuz you're probably not going to have any issue peeing in that situation...just control the solids) and put that in the seat next to you to check for level or bank in flight.
 
Are the African or European moths? What is the status of the strobe lights?
 
In a 60 degree level, coordinated turn you'd be pulling 2Gs. That would make the butterflies feel twice their weight. Unless those butterflies (insects) have been doing butterflies (workout) I'm guessing they'd have a hard time (butter)flying.
 
mjburian said:
In a 60 degree level, coordinated turn you'd be pulling 2Gs. That would make the butterflies feel twice their weight. Unless those butterflies (insects) have been doing butterflies (workout) I'm guessing they'd have a hard time (butter)flying.
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Why would they feel the g's if they are not affixed to anything?
The air in the plane doesn't go to my feet in a bank. Or does it?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Why would they feel the g's if they are not affixed to anything?
The air in the plane doesn't go to my feet in a bank. Or does it?
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If they're flying "straight and level" in relation to the ground, you're going to "scoop" them with the plane, right? They fly straight in space, but the plane is moving so they'll effectively fall towards the floor. (I think.) Once on the floor, they'll continue to get "scooped" providing them with the feeling of being twice as heavy.

Right? (Disclaimer: Flight got scrapped this morning, so passengers and I went to brunch and drank, instead.)
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Why would they feel the g's if they are not affixed to anything?
The air in the plane doesn't go to my feet in a bank. Or does it?
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They're going to experience the same outward/downward force that you're feeling when in that bank. Basically, the plane is turning, and the inertia of your body (and butterfly bodies) wants to continue straight, hence the g force. It doesn't matter whether they're affixed to the plane or not.

Edit: Actually, after thinking about it for awhile, the b-flies would need to contact part of the aircraft to feel the g's...smacking into the side window or whatever.
 
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Old-timer technique if you're caught above a layer without gyros...a south heading has no acceleration errors. The turning error leads, so if the compass changes heading you know immediately which way the airplane is starting to turn so you can stop the turn early.

The basis is that you're VMC above the layer so you can turn to south and stabilize before descending into the clouds.

Of course, real pilots spin through the clouds to start with. ;)
 
No

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
 
MauleSkinner said:
Of course, real pilots spin through the clouds to start with. ;)
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Especially if your flying an Antonov An-3. The AFM specifically states to stall the plane to the ground if your caught in IMC or above a layer. As the plane descends at the rate of a typical parachute.

"If the engine quits in instrument conditions (blind flying when you can't see the ground) or at night, the pilot should pull the control column full aft (it won't stall) and keep the wings level. The leading-edge slats will snap out at about 40mph (64km/h), and when the airplane slows to a forward speed of about 25mph [40km/h], the airplane will sink at about a parachute descent rate until the aircraft hits the ground."
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Why would they feel the g's if they are not affixed to anything?
The air in the plane doesn't go to my feet in a bank. Or does it?
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If you hold the turn long enough the heavier molecules in the air will sink to the bottom as long as there is no convective motion in the atmosphere.
 
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