your difficult maneuver

FastEddieB said:
The idea of a “chant” is a good one, though. Instructors use them all the time when demonstrating new maneuvers, to keep the student aware of what’s going on throughout the maneuver.
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Yes, but my CFI’s chants were always Gregorian. And he seemed to be fingering a string of beads the entire time I was flying...
 
FastEddieB said:
Shouldn’t the bolded above read: “Increase the pitch, increase the pitch...”*? From entry to the 90° point the pitch should be smoothly increasing throughout. And the bank should be gradually and smoothly decreasing at a constant rate from the 90° to 180° reference points. Right?


*Maybe you meant “Hold the back pressure?”
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Pitch stays the same. AOA, therefore back pressure, increases as speed decreases.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
ateamer said:
Pitch stays the same. AOA, therefore back pressure, increases as speed decreases.
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We are discussing the first 90° of the turn, leading up to “There’s 90°” in the chant.

Here’s a description of the first half of a chandelle:

“The pilot enters a chandelle at a pre-determined airspeed in the normal cruising range for the aircraft. To begin the maneuver the pilot first rolls the aircraft in the desired direction with the controls (the ailerons), and quickly but smoothly establishes a medium-banked turn. In most small aircraft (cruising speeds of 100–175 KIAS) this bank will be about 30° to 40°. This will begin a turn of the aircraft in the direction of bank. Simultaneously, full power is applied and a smooth pitch up is started with the controls (the elevators on the empennage). The angle of bank stays constant during the first 90° of the change of heading, while the pitch angle increases steadily. At the 90° point in the change of heading, the aircraft has the maximum pitch angle (which should be close to the critical angle of attack at the level stall speed of the aircraft).”

Now, the pitch should, in fact, stay the same for the second 90° of turn, but that’s not what I was addressing, which was the “hold pitch” chant prior to the 90° point.
 
Power on stalls were a PITA for me, at first. Eventually I figured them out.

Tantalum said:
Hot starting a fuel injected 172R
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Try cold starting an Arrow with plugs fouled by guys who flooded it a million times with 100W oil and a weak battery.

IK04 said:
Steep turns, really? I always enjoyed them. Still do.

I always thought Chandelles required the most effort and connecting the lazy 8's and making them pretty was difficult.
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Jason Miller makes Lazy 8s so easy.
 
ktup-flyer said:
The 182 makes the "ground effect" part of soft field takeoffs pretty much nonexistent. It's damn near impossible to hold it down and keep it from climbing at the weights I usually fly at
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ktup-flyer said:
The 182 makes the "ground effect" part of soft field takeoffs pretty much nonexistent. It's damn near impossible to hold it down and keep it from climbing at the weights I usually fly at
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Steep turns to the left. And add me to the list of Lazy 8’s for commercial maneuvers. I felt redeemed to see that one mentioned so many times. I thought it was just me
 
Two quick questions for everyone:

Is it acceptable to add or reduce power on the descending Lazy Eight portion?

If the manufacturer doesn't have recommendation power settings, do you have to go to full power on Chandelles?

I couldn't find my answer in the airplane flying handbook.

Thanks in advance!
 
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Emergency landings. I was always high. In retrospect, I think it might be cause we trained where there were few really good fields, so it required you to be spot on. I got to where I was ok, but the first one I absolutely nailed was on my checkride.
 
bflynn said:
Emergency landings. I was always high. In retrospect, I think it might be cause we trained where there were few really good fields, so it required you to be spot on. I got to where I was ok, but the first one I absolutely nailed was on my checkride.
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High is better than low. I try to be high on final for an emergency landing, then slip as necessary to get down. If you're too low on final, you're screwed.
 
Luscombe8fan said:
Two quick questions for everyone:

Is it acceptable to add or reduce power on the descending Lazy Eight portion?

If the manufacturer doesn't have recommendation power settings, do you have to go to full power on Chandelles?

I couldn't find my answer in the airplane flying handbook.

Thanks in advance!
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No and yes.
 
@Peter Ha - When I was learning Steeps my CFI asked, "How you doing?" I said, "Not good." He took the yoke and asked what was wrong. I said I wasn't holding bank or altitude. He said, "I meant how are you feeling?" I said I'd feel better when I do it right. We had a good laugh and went back to crappy Steeps for a while.
 
Half Fast said:
High is better than low. I try to be high on final for an emergency landing, then slip as necessary to get down. If you're too low on final, you're screwed.
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Not really. The one time I thought I might have a real issue and tried to land without touching the throttle, I kept thinking what you just said and I ended up WAY too high and nearly ran off the end of the runway.... even holding a slip all the way down.....

I've done a hundred simulations, and I have a glider rating, and the one time I did it for real I botched it by being too high. I stopped with a little runway left and turned out there was no major issue, but it taught me a lesson.
 
MauleSkinner said:
No and yes.
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I am flying the commercial maneuvers in an RV. Many of the VFR maneuvers are energy gaining. Meaning coming out faster or higher than starting. This is common with some of the acro maneuvers as well.
 
Luscombe8fan said:
I am flying the commercial maneuvers in an RV. Many of the VFR maneuvers are energy gaining. Meaning coming out faster or higher than starting. This is common with some of the acro maneuvers as well.
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You need to find the correct starting speed/power and target pitch so that the Lazy 8 comes out without a power change.
 
Hands down and without a doubt: Autorotation. Nothing I have ever done in any fixed wing -- be it Glider, ASEL, ASES, or AMEL -- come anywhere near being as difficult.
 
smv said:
Hands down and without a doubt: Autorotation. Nothing I have ever done in any fixed wing -- be it Glider, ASEL, ASES, or AMEL -- come anywhere near being as difficult.
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Really? Weird. I have always felt that autorotation to a landing is an extremely simple process. Your options are very limited, so you need to focus on setting up the landing.

Was maintaining rotor RPM the difficult part for you? That can be distracting.
 
IK04 said:
Really? Weird. I have always felt that autorotation to a landing is an extremely simple process. Your options are very limited, so you need to focus on setting up the landing.

Was maintaining rotor RPM the difficult part for you? That can be distracting.
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Yes... I was SO worried about overspeeding the rotor that I was never able to fully concentrate on the rest of the process... Although the CFI deemed me worthy of Solo Flight, I never really felt comfortable with autorotation. Unfortunatley after only four hours of solo the school went bankrupt and I was never able to finish my training. The cool thing is that it was twelve years ago and I am STILL paying off that loan. (Thanks, Jerry). :mad:
 
I dislike accelerated stalls. The hardest one for me to perform well is the Chandelle. Haven't tried for quite some time, don't miss it.
 
Lazy 8s. If I fly them lazy then i'm either fast or high My work around was to fly it at like 2000 rpm and use the margins to pass the maneuver. If I fly them super aggressive(30 in pitch 60 in bank) then I could hit my starting alts/speeds on the nose all day long.
 
falconkidding said:
Lazy 8s. If I fly them lazy then i'm either fast or high My work around was to fly it at like 2000 rpm and use the margins to pass the maneuver. If I fly them super aggressive(30 in pitch 60 in bank) then I could hit my starting alts/speeds on the nose all day long.
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Did you try the aggressive pitch with 30 bank?
 
When I was training for my private, my stalls were aweful and I couldn't hold altitude during my steep turns. Once I started looking outside it got so much easier. Just wish I would've learned that before my checkride.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Did you try the aggressive pitch with 30 bank?
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I did but the DPE emphasized that it was a "LAZY" maneuver when I was working on my commercial so my CFI and I worked out the low power slow thing and just hoped I only had to do just two turns of the lazy 8 lol.. My CFI initial DPE though wanted it done aggressively though which was fine with me.
 
falconkidding said:
I did but the DPE emphasized that it was a "LAZY" maneuver...
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Your DPE was clueless, apparently.

nothing new under the sun, though...the DPE for my CFI checkride 30 years ago complained mightily about how many people thought that’s why it was called that...and the real reason was still in the AFH at the time.
 
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Steep turns took forever for me to be able to do them up to standard.
 
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