Young Eagles - Count Me Out :(

Sinistar

Sinistar

En-Route
Joined
Sep 9, 2016
Messages
3,735
Display Name
Display name:
Brad
TLDR Summary: Just did not enjoy it.

Let me start with saying I love giving rides to people! I also want to say our local EAA chapter is made up of great, dedicated pilots and volunteers and run things very safely and smoothly.

Rewind several months: The local EAA chapter asked me to join and to fly Young Eagles. For some reason which I can not figure out (gut), I was hesitant but decided lets do it. So I joined our local chapter and did the security and YE stuff. Our first event was canceled due to wx so we flew on our backup weekend. I feel like things were just off and/or out of [my] control for the event.

I went to bed the night before thinking it would be canceled with TAF's indicating OVC0800 and thunderstorms. I woke up at 6am and it was raining hard and lightening at home, about 25 miles east of the airport. Then I heard my phone beep 10 minutes later with a email and it was on. The new TAF and local AWOS showed it had cleared up for a bit. So hurried to the airport. I had plenty of time to preflight and get the plane ready. But I missed the earlier planning.

I pretty much had one request dating back to when they first asked me and then again that morning. I wanted to start with just one kid or if it was a really young kid, then also their parent. But then I learn that morning that parents aren't really supposed to ride due to the liability/insurance provided by the EAA. So that put me off a bit. Then throw in the fact my first flight I was given 3 sisters vs 1 kid. Hmmm. The last thing I am gonna do is make a big deal so I take them up. I'm gonna chalk that up to peer pressure and more importantly my PIC ass not making a decision.

Now thrown in a couple more factors. The first being quite obvious, what was supposed to be calm wind was now 10G15 @ 80deg crosswind (doable) but throw in the swirls around the nearby tree line and does things even a sailor would curse.

The other one was bothering me most...a low overcast bank of clouds slowly moving in from the north. You could see it from the ground, just past that same tree line.

So I take my time and tell the parents what we'll do, the safety brief etc. Of course I am really thinking about that overcast moving in. One of the 3 girls says she's a bit nervous. I tell her she can stay back but her older sister (13) talks to her, calms her down and we go. Take off goes great. Then I make my first good decision. We are gonna fly towards that friggin' solid OVC, its not getting between me and the airport! Actually its pretty much just what I thought, solid overcast with bases 1100agl and tops at 2700agl. So I go up higher and 1001ft above it :) All three girls are loving it. Seeing a endless sea of beautiful white clouds below us out one window and endless green farmland to the south. None of them use a phone. They just look out the window and talk and point at things. For the first time I think "Maybe this is gonna be awesome". I then tell them the ride will be kind of short but they got to see what a lot of Young Eagles riders never see - those beautiful clouds from above. The crosswind landing goes really good. You know in the Hollywood movie where the hero gets a perfect hug from the cute kid...I got exactly that hug...twice :)

Next flight. They give me 3 again. One daughter's dad is a CFII...hmmm. He's really great about it. His daughter has never flown with him and he didn't know it was a Skylane vs Skyhawk...hmmm. The other 2 daughters were pretty overweight and glued to their phones. I explained to the one in front how to get out of the seat and it took a while. And those clouds are moving in. And the wind is building.

Here I make my first mistake...the 2 girls are talking and the Unicom is busy so I ask them to be quiet and I turn down COM1 to get the winds (damn winds). Yep winds are up and gusts are up. I have the girl up front read me the pre-takeoff checklist. It quiet so I announce. I roll across the line and do my early turn to look for traffic. WOW...152 on short final. First time in my life that has happened. I hold. I am sure he's cursing me for being that guy. Its way, way too quiet on the unicom. Damn...COM1 is turned down. Fortunately I did my check for final traffic right after rolling over the line so he had plenty of room to land. I still haven't seen him but I will apologize face to face as soon as I can.

This 2nd takeoff is a bit tricky, I am probably about 250lbs heavier than I has planned for. Fortunately I had left off plenty of fuel on the last fuel up before the event just for this very case. So I wasn't overweight, but that crazy swirling wind and DA around 2500 meant keeping it down on the runway a bit longer than normal. The climb out is a bit anemic but okay. Skylane's are pretty awesome in this scenario especially in the Midwest.

I go the same direction. Now the OVC is getting close. 4 of the 6 pilots are thinking the same thing. I got a 172 behind me. The 414 has just descended and we pass about a mile apart. And then another 182 (arriving late) is a mile away and we are now both under the OVC heading towards the downwind. I will say, ADSB was darned nice here. The other 182 was equipped so I was seeing him on the tablet and helped me see him just under the clouds. The girls got a fun (yet bumpy) left 360. But they were on their phones most of the time, but mostly taking pictures. Then comes the landing, it was really swirling...damn...go around. All I am thinking about is the girls dad who is the CFII and why I went around. The second one I planted on the upwind wheel..why didn't I do that first time? The CFII dad was super cool about it back on the ground.

The girl who's dad is the CFII was very greatful for her getting a flight. They other two didn't say much, went off texting pictures or whatever they do. Their dad was very greatful. Unfortunately, he believes his older daughter will be going into the airforce and will go right into being a pilot after high school. I tried to explain she will need to get a college degree first or have to go enlisted and try get into the academy. I didn't say anything about her BMI as that would be my fat arse pot calling the kettle black.

That second flight felt so out of my control that I called it and put away the plane. The OVC was moving in and others where hanging it up too. In the end I flew 6 of the 45 total with 6 planes flying, most were taking 3 kids, there was a single 152 and the 414 bumped up the average taking 4 or 5 kids on two different flights. He is such a good, patient pilot.

As I was scrubbing the 734,234 bugs off the plane I just kept thinking this wasn't fun. I really enjoy giving one person a longer ride where it has time to go wherever it wants to go. I don't think YE flights are for me. One other pilot commented about the phones and how they didn't even look out the window. Plus not having the parent on the flight just didn't feel right. Who knows, maybe it was just a bad day.

Kudos and props to those have hauled 100's of kids!!!
 
First, there is an adult waiver so parents can ride along. I sent two parents with their kids yesterday.

Never expect every kid to be excited about the ride. Lots of parents heart about Young Eagles and bring their kids out for a "free airplane ride". Thing is, you never know when the fire might be lit in someone and they will go on to a career in aviation.

If it is not for you, well I can't change that for you. You re PIC and should have been sure to tell the coordinator you wanted to fly one. Having three in the plane with you can be trying, especially if they start jabbering with each other.

Sounds like your chapter does not use www.yeday.org to manage their rallies. They might want to give it a try.
 
Fortunately it all ended okay, but the description of the whole event sounds a bit chaotic. If you were not feeling comfortable, you should have exercised those ADM skills and said NO!
 
Ryanb said:
Fortunately it all ended okay, but the description of the whole event sounds a bit chaotic. If you were not feeling comfortable, you should have exercised those ADM skills and said NO!
Click to expand...
If I could tweak your statement and change "chaotic" to "rushed" I think it would be dead on description. Mainly because the original weekend was aborted due to wx and this weekends backup was Father's Day which I think everyone was trying to avoid. The irony being today would have been better wx.
 
Rgbeard said:
Not everyone is cut out to do these types of things.
Click to expand...
This is true. These kids, as well as their families are trusting that you’re fully competent to perform the flight. You owe it to them to ensure that their belief is correct. If you feel even the slightest bit behind the 182 or that the weather conditions are beyond what you’re capable of flying, than you need to use good ADM and say ‘I’m out!’.

Just my 2c
 
EppyGA said:
First, there is an adult waiver so parents can ride along. I sent two parents with their kids yesterday.

Never expect every kid to be excited about the ride. Lots of parents heart about Young Eagles and bring their kids out for a "free airplane ride". Thing is, you never know when the fire might be lit in someone and they will go on to a career in aviation.

If it is not for you, well I can't change that for you. You re PIC and should have been sure to tell the coordinator you wanted to fly one. Having three in the plane with you can be trying, especially if they start jabbering with each other.

Sounds like your chapter does not use www.yeday.org to manage their rallies. They might want to give it a try.
Click to expand...
Well I told them I wanted to start by flying 1 and would work up to it. I told them that a few months back when I told them I'd join. And I told them the morning of that I wanted to start with one. But I am sure they see a 182 and think "WTF...load it up".

So there is an adult waiver. I take it this is single EAA form that is signed by the parent on the day of? I'm new to the EAA and Young Eagles so I have no clue what waivers and paperwork is needed vs optional. I will look into yeday!
 
Sinistar said:
Well I told them I wanted to start by flying 1 and would work up to it. I told them that a few months back when I told them I'd join. And I told them the morning of that I wanted to start with one. But I am sure they see a 182 and think "WTF...load it up".
Click to expand...
Again, even so, you’re the PIC correct? Not comfortable? Say so.
 
I don't know man, it sounds to me like you kinda did enjoy it. I think you're being a little hard on yourself (not a bad thing) for the incident with the 152 and having to do a go around. Don't sweat it. The first was a good lesson and the second, well there's nothing wrong with going around, unless you're on fire or out of fuel.

Give it time, you'll feel better and my bet is you'll be doing it again. Kids can be fun.
 
Let me open with saying I have never done what you have done. I look forward to trying it.

It’s sounds like you just got a bit nervous about the whole thing. I would have. Rushed, word weather, unfamiliar kids... The first time I took extended family up with kids I was a bag of nerves Kinda of looking for some outs. But I enjoyed it in the end and they still talk about it. I still get a bit nervous about putting someone new in the plane. Even if they are a pilot.
I bet if you give it a bit of time and a few more chances you’ll find that rewarding feeling you are looking for.
 
Here's the parent waiver.....

Some chapters seem to want to discourage parents from riding along. We do not encourage nor discourage. If someone asks, we will do it. Previously, we had a lady running our registration that never wanted parents flying. Never did understand that.
 

Attachments

  • waiver_adult_orientation_ride.pdf
    73 KB · Views: 7
In 21014 I was given a young guy that was really into RC modeling. That was his first of many Young Eagle flights. When we started our youth build program he joined that and began to earn credit for his future training. Last October he earned his Private Certificate. He just graduated from HS and will head off to college to get his other ratings and continue his path for flying. BTW, since earning his certificate he has flown over 30 Young Eagles for us.

Another young man took Young Eagle flight with us and joined our youth build program. He soloed two days after his 16th birthday and took his check ride on his 17th birthday. His IR ride is scheduled for Thursday. He's had to cancel it due to weather a couple of times. He will be headed off to continue his road to an aviation career. He's flown 26 Young Eagles since earning his Certificate.

Another of our Young Eagles and youth build members is now a Naval Aviatior training in the Texan T6-B at the Corpus Christie NAS.

You never know who you're lighting the fire in.
 
I’ve not done young eagles but my flight school did a few airbus events for low income kids. I hated it yet enjoyed it. I don’t like having to “entertain” kids but I like seeing them get excited about something. A lot were just there for a ride and food but I enjoyed flying one little black kid probably 10 years old that flew up front with me asked relevant questions looked to have a natural hand for flying and seemed to love it. I enjoyed flying with him but felt bad he was in and out of foster care and with his mom, goes to a crap school maybe he’ll be one of the few that can escape those life circumstances, I hope so. Dude was sharp, good attitude.
 
I love giving people rides, but I’m a control freak. I wouldn’t want someone else dictating the terms.
 
I was once a "chaperone" at a YE event..wore the vest and escorted kids and parents to and from the planes.

After the flight I'd always ask the little tykes, "Well, how was it?" I got some blank looks and 1000-yard stares, but it was really cool to see the one kid with the wide grin who was bursting with excitement. Future pilot material! :)
 
Our EAA chapter only flies high school kids. They come in, calm and cool. Most have that same look after they fly. I'd say about 1 out of 15 comes back with their cheeks all rosy and they just can't stop smiling. That's who we do it for, not the other 14 :)
 
SToL said:
I don't know man, it sounds to me like you kinda did enjoy it.

Give it time, you'll feel better and my bet is you'll be doing it again. Kids can be fun.
Click to expand...
This. I actually got the impression that it was the peripheral stuff that you are (rightfully?) hard on yourself about that was the issue - and those things could be issues on ANY flight you take. Write yourself up a YE checklist, make some hard personal lines that you won't cross, and give it another go.
 
I'm sorry the weather wasn't so great during the event. I hope you give it another try.

I love flying Young Eagles events. I've flown for two different chapters this year. The one in which I'm a member & one 40 miles west in Richland, WA.

I've flown 17 flights so far this year with a total of 51 kids. It's true that not all of them are enthused about the flight but there's always a few that get that gleam in their eyes. Those make it all worth it.
 
Last edited:
I did my first YE event earlier this month after also being grounded for weather on the original weekend. All of mine was a single kid with a parent (except one parent who had an infant they had to stay on the ground for). I'm not a kid person, but actually enjoyed the experience. I let the kids fly if they wanted to and because of most of our kids being local, I would fly over their house (which probably excited the parent more than the kid...). I recommend giving it another shot on a better day. If you still don't like it, then you know it's the event and not just a bad day.
 
It is so worth it to fly kids. I've never been nervous and 95% of kids are grateful, funny, smart, respectful, and engaged. Once one set of girls was way too cool for their own good, but they still said thanks at the end. We do high school and middle school kids. Most of the time, they can't stop smiling and the younger ones are quivering with excitement when they land to tell others about what they did.

Funny: One kid asked if I could do a knife edge maneuver. In a Tecnam Eaglet? Nope, but you can look at the little houses and cars and do some shallow turns.

Inspiring: (Second hand) The young lady was nervous about going up, but she overcame that and decided to go. Once up, the pilot offered to let her fly. Wide eyed, she said she couldn't do that. But he insisted and again, she stepped up and took the controls. Being a CFI, he had her do turns, ascent/descents, etc. As she flew he looked at her in surprise thinking she was a ringer. But nope, never flew before as she held altitude, heading, and speed. She looked at him and said, "I can do this!". The pilot laughed and said, "Yes, you certainly can".

Wonder: The one girl kept saying over and over, "This is so beautiful!". The other said, "It seems scary on the ground, but up here it isn't!". The third one said,"This is the coolest thing I've ever done in my life!"

Heart breaking: There was a conference for the blind over in D.C., so some of the parents arranged to come over with their sight-impaired/blind children for airplane rides. The flight school offered free rides. One girl wanted to fly over Pennsylvania, so the pilot took her up to the MD/PA state line and circled. Though she couldn't see, she was thrilled. She could feel the vibration of the plane and the G-forces as he circled. They actually took her up a second time.

The second boy was profoundly blind, white cane and all. He held my arm as I guided him to the plane. I took his cane and we helped him up over the wing into the cockpit. He was all smiles as we buckled him in. The pilot latched the canopy and the boy waved out at the ground crew and parents he couldn't see. After the flight he was all smiles, thanking the pilot and everyone around him. I gave him back his cane and guided him back to the fenced area. He went on about how wonderful it was and described what it felt like to take off, turn, listen to the engine and the wind and finally land.

I look for and treasure these moments when doing YE, even just as ground crew. Flight is wonderful but sharing it with kids is even better. Give it a second try and I think you'll find it provides some of the most precious moments you'll ever have as a pilot.
 
Last edited:
It just sounded like marginal weather. Otherwise nothing unusual here. My advice is to arrange ahead of time with the organizers to take 1 kid at a time so they can plan how to handle the number of kids. If you don't, they're in a bind and it's not fair to them. Also make good use of the isolate switch on the intercom if you have it. Always always brief passengers, especially kids, about sterile cockpit procedures. This is all part of being a pilot, not just a Young Eagles pilot.
 
Unfortunately YE flights all seem to be in the bumpy afternoons. I have had most of the OP hesitations and never gotten involved with with YE per se. Owning my own new 172 I was always afraid one kid would get sick on a mid day flight.
 
1.always schedule YE rallyes for the morning....we start at 7:30 am in the summer, 8 am the rest of the year.
2. make sure the YE coordinator understands the pilot makes the final decision both how many in the airplane and go-nogo. Last month, I did one flight then switched to ground ops because I didn’t like the weather. If I don’t feel comfortable letting the kid fly, no reason to keep going. We do this for the kids ( and the irs tax deduction )
3. barf bags. I’m the only one in the chapter that had a need....my interior was about 2 yrs old. Guess what....not a drop in the airplane....barf bags! Explain this in advance.
4. we run a mandatory ground school the evening before. Our ‘auxillary’ ( same chapter, different day, different location) runs a mandatory 30 min ground school during the YE day for each ‘wave’ of kids. We’re scheduled with groups 18 months out. The other crew has a public, open to all signup. Those kids are scheduled to,arrive every 30 min for orientation then flying. They run 4-5 groups in a morning. And we talk about the barf bags, too.
 
I haven't done YE, and I rarely offer rides. If someone asks or suggests they want to fly I offer a ride, I can tell if they really want to go or not at that point. If so I make it happen. Rides vary between an hour to most of the day.
 
Well I just did the online training and submitted the background check for YE. I always thought you needed your IR.
 
I really enjoy flying Young Eagles. I wish there had been something like that when I was a kid. I always loved airplanes and wanted to fly, but had no access.

Sorry you kind of got into a not-so-great situation. I understand how it happens, but you really do have to take control of your own flying. Otherwise, your YE coordinator will probably just use you and your plane up. Not on purpose, but there's enough demand that you could make 100% of your flying time just Young Eagles, and completely burn out in a few months.

If you only want to take one at a time, then simply (nicely) refuse to take more than one at a time. If the weather doesn't work for you, then say so and stop flying. It's OK, you're PIC. I've flown 40-something YEs so far, one at a time in my RV-12. My co-owner flew a couple last weekend, his first time. When the weather got a little too "sporty" to suit him, he stopped flying. But when it gets too bumpy or too windy, it's not enjoyable for anyone.

I like having a 2-seater, so there's only one kid at a time. I'd say 8 or 9 out of 10 do some flying while we're up (another reason to do it in really good weather). I don't know how many middle school kids I've sent back to school on Monday being able to say they can't drive a car yet, but they've flown an airplane. They think it's pretty cool.
 
Most of my flying is in Mexico the past seven years. We've hosted several YE style events during that time.

I found out that one of my Jóvenes Aguiles (Young Eagles, in Spanish) entered an aviation university in the fall. She was a great passenger when she rode with me. Comes from a very poor family. Asked lots of good questions and it absolutely made my day to find out that she had been so excited about the flight that she went on to pursue a career.

Having that happen makes it all worthwhile for me.
 
Did the first Young Eagles event in the Mooney the other day. Biggest problem was trying to fit into a flight pattern dominated by Skyhawks. Had a really good time, I'm pretty certain a couple of those kids are going to wind up in aviation in some capacity. I have to admit, if the wx was making things the least bit scary, even just a bit less than fun I'd bag it. We aren't going to get kids into aviation by giving them bad flights.
 
I did it this year first time and had a riot... out group flew 158 kids that morning... it was windy but straight down runway do we had so evcircumstances on our side you didn’t.

Give it another chance... maybe speak up at a meeting on how you feel things could be done better or safer...
 
My first ye experience was just a few weeks ago. First ride was a pair of sisters, second a pair of brothers. Everything seemed very well organized and the weather played nice. Had some pretty cool aircraft there. The Tiger on the left is what I was flying, one of our club aircraft.

upload_2019-6-17_23-29-20.jpeg

My first two young eagles. As soon as we were wheels up they were just ooohing and awwwwwing.

upload_2019-6-17_23-31-33.jpeg

And I don’t know why, but my landings were butter with the kids aboard. Usually they are .... more like oatmeal.

Just wanted to share my experience. Also a tip. Not sure how your chapter handles it but they asked me how many headsets I brought. I knew I didn’t want to carry more than one or two so I brought two spare headsets and that’s what I was assigned.
 
steingar said:
Did the first Young Eagles event in the Mooney the other day. Biggest problem was trying to fit into a flight pattern dominated by Skyhawks. Had a really good time, I'm pretty certain a couple of those kids are going to wind up in aviation in some capacity. I have to admit, if the wx was making things the least bit scary, even just a bit less than fun I'd bag it. We aren't going to get kids into aviation by giving them bad flights.
Click to expand...

We have a pattern we fly and we just have the faster planes head further out and join back up in the 45. Also, pilots can use their ADSB display to find the gaps and adjust for spacing. Our volunteer planes have ADSB out, but also the kids with their young, sharp eyes are great at spotting planes and it's fun for them.
 
Sorry you had a bad experience. Did you have a talk with the coordinator and express your concerns ? you are the PIC . I have a two seat airplane, so I get to fly one at a time.
 
I've had everything from young kids who chatter continually to older kids actually interested in learing, boy scouts working on their merit badges (we told the BSA to take a hike on their requirements, they could accept the EAA terms or go fish), etc... If I got one kid who got interested in aviation from all this I'd be happy. At least I exposed people to the idea that recreational aviation exists and isn't some rich man's game.

Years ago at a charity event (Plane Pull) I spent more time putting air cargo guys (the event took place at the FedEx hangar) in the plane (didn't get a chance to fly them). Here are people who work day in and day out around airplanes, but none of them had even gotten to touch a small plane. They had a blast as well.
 
mcdewey said:
We have a pattern we fly and we just have the faster planes head further out and join back up in the 45. Also, pilots can use their ADSB display to find the gaps and adjust for spacing. Our volunteer planes have ADSB out, but also the kids with their young, sharp eyes are great at spotting planes and it's fun for them.
Click to expand...
That's pretty much what I did. I got chewed out a little b the Chapter President for not following the plan, but I really needed the space to configure the aircraft for landing. Indeed I tried to follow their pattern n my last run, got behind the airplane and wound up with a crap landing. Might try fiddling with some low power settings to let me fit in with Skyhawks better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top