Yet another example of how bad Hawaii hates General Aviation.

When fuel finally hits $12 a gallon that airport will be abandoned anyway.
 
Doesn't say why the HDOT wants to close the airport. What do they want to do with the land?
 
WDD said:
Doesn't say why the HDOT wants to close the airport. What do they want to do with the land?
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Funny thing is... The property belongs to the US Army. Between sunset and sunrise, it is closed to civil use.

Unless some Colonel and local politician are making a back-room deal for their retirement plans, I don't see how the state benefits by closing down 130 jobs and $12M a year income.

Not sure what the local government has against GA, but their antics go back several years when, literally overnight, they hiked the property taxes on the only seaplane base in the state by more than 200% (from $28,000 to $90,000). There was no way they could survive that.

https://www.kitv.com/story/36808149/island-seaplane-state-hikes-lease-rent-by-62k
 
smv said:
Not sure what the local government has against GA
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There has been a big NIMBY segment that is trying to ban the sightseeing tourist flights due to congestion and noise. Granted I can get how the excessive noise of hundreds of tour operators overflying some of the most beautiful and pristine natural areas could ruin the ambience.
 
midwestpa24 said:
There has been a big NIMBY segment that is trying to ban the sightseeing tourist flights due to congestion and noise. Granted I can get how the excessive noise of hundreds of tour operators overflying some of the most beautiful and pristine natural areas could ruin the ambience.
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Yep. Not a fan of that, and not a fan of paramotor operators flying over local sporting events. That's not really a NIMBY thing.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Yep. Not a fan of that, and not a fan of paramotor operators flying over local sporting events. That's not really a NIMBY thing.
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Oh I get it. You are way out in a secluded area looking for that beautiful overlook or waterfall, but every 45 seconds an R66 or Jetranger passes by at low level. There has to be some happy medium between total shutdown and overload. I don't what or how that would work. I know that's what led to the restrictions around the Grand Canyon, so at least some part of the Canyon is kept free of the constant overflights.
 
midwestpa24 said:
There has been a big NIMBY segment that is trying to ban the sightseeing tourist flights due to congestion and noise. Granted I can get how the excessive noise of hundreds of tour operators overflying some of the most beautiful and pristine natural areas could ruin the ambience.
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I took a couple of glider rides there when I was stationed on the island. Unless things have changed significantly its not all that busy.

Maybe I wasn't really looking for it but the aerial sightseeing activity really wasn't noticeable when I lived there. It was there but definitely not at a level to ruin other people out enjoying the sights.
 
By most of the population GA is considered an ultra rich activity. The rich are evil and should be stopped any way possible, doncha know?
 
It Notes:

"AOPA noted that the airport is used for flying lessons, skydiving, and glider rides, contributing $12 million to the state economy and supporting 130 jobs. But during the pandemic, it has taken on even greater importance as economic forecasts suggest the state might not recover until after 2023, AOPA said."

Two questions/observations
(1) why is the importance of the airport even greater now during the pandemic? With Hawaii having been (still is?) in one of the most severe-you-get-arrested coronavirus lockdowns I can't imagine there has been much tourist activity, or otherwise, at that airport.. this seems a non sequitor
(2) The airport "contributes $12M to the state economy and 130 jobs".. I assume that's over a 12 month span.. that's a pathetic figure for how much land an airport takes up.. for comparison O'ahu in 2019 averaged $22.4M spent by visitors EACH DAY.. so in one day O'ahu makes nearly twice as much money off visitors than the airport does in a whole year. That's a lot of land not really doing much.. I can understand a desire by non aviators to put that land to other use

Plus, with most of Hawaii's tourists spending their money on heli rides those don't need a 9,000 ft runway. The seaplane thing is a bummer, but of all the times I've been to Hawaii I've never seen water anywhere near calm enough to support seaplane ops. I'm sure it exists somewhere, but I haven't seen it anywhere on Maui or Kauai

https://www.hawaiitourismauthority....rism-econ-impact-fact-sheet-december-2019.pdf


Trust me, I hate airports closing as much as the next guy, depressing that something like an average of 1 field closes a day. But, we're also operating in a free market. If you can't pull your weight and earn your keep, so to speak, then an airport is otherwise a fairly big waste of space. In some cases you have hundreds of acres of space sitting there that needs maintenance, upkeep, etc., just so a handful of decrepit planes can use it a few times a day

To save airports we need to save GA..!
 
Tantalum said:
2019 averaged $22.4M spent by visitors EACH DAY.. so in one day O'ahu makes nearly twice as much money off visitors than the airport does in a whole year. That's a lot of land not really doing much.. I can understand a desire by non aviators to put that land to other use
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Speaking of arguments that don't follow... The property is training ground owned by the Army, not by the state. To think that closing the airport automatically opens the ground to state profit making is just silly. Beyond that, it is located near the end of a one-way-in, one-way-out highway and about as far from Honolulu and Waikiki as you can get without getting wet. It is not like it sits along a heavily traveled route screaming out for a layby for weary travelers.
 
smv said:
Speaking of arguments that don't follow... The property is training ground owned by the Army, not by the state. To think that closing the airport automatically opens the ground to state profit making is just silly. Beyond that, it is located near the end of a one-way-in, one-way-out highway and about as far from Honolulu and Waikiki as you can get without getting wet. It is not like it sits along a heavily traveled route screaming out for a layby for weary travelers.
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The state will take it, rezone it and sell it to a developer in hopes of a giant all inclusive destination resort going in. Of course, I also don't see their tourist economy recovering for some time given their behavior in "these troubling times" so it may just sit as no developer can see their way to a profit without customers.

All it takes is one Senator to tell the Army to give it to the state and it's done.
 
Pugs said:
The state will take it, rezone it and sell it to a developer in hopes of a giant all inclusive destination resort going in. Of course, I also don't see their tourist economy recovering for some time given their behavior in "these troubling times" so it may just sit as no developer can see their way to a profit without customers.

All it takes is one Senator to tell the Army to give it to the state and it's done.
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And eventually closing the airport is the first step towards that end goal..
 
Tantalum said:
It Notes:


(2) The airport "contributes $12M to the state economy and 130 jobs".. I assume that's over a 12 month span.. that's a pathetic figure for how much land an airport takes up.. for comparison O'ahu in 2019 averaged $22.4M spent by visitors EACH DAY.. so in one day O'ahu makes nearly twice as much money off visitors than the airport does in a whole year. That's a lot of land not really doing much.. I can understand a desire by non aviators to put that land to other use
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It is a single paved runway and the airport area is not really that much. It is also in a less congested part of the island. While the whole island might be making $22M per day, I suspect most of that is concentrated around Honolulu. Closing airports on a small island surrounded by ocean seems like a short sighted move to me.
 
When I was there to take an ultralight flight in 2016, there certainly weren't "hundreds" of sightseeing flights operating out of Dillingham. I didn't see any other aircraft arrive or depart in the two hours I was on the ground. It's a slow 30 mile drive from Honolulu. Tourists often don't have cars and they don't make a 60 mile round trip to do something that can be done by going to the Honolulu airport.

There isn't any tourist development close by the airport, it's mostly a few homes and a Dole pineapple plantation. Waialua is five or six miles away. If the airport is allowed to remain open, it's not going to bother anyone unless they're overzealous anti-everything radicals. If it's closed down, nothing will be developed on the property, because if there was any demand for development, it would already be taking place on land near the airport.
 
3393RP said:
When I was there to take an ultralight flight in 2016, there certainly weren't "hundreds" of sightseeing flights operating out of Dillingham. I didn't see any other aircraft arrive or depart in the two hours I was on the ground. It's a slow 30 mile drive from Honolulu. Tourists often don't have cars and they don't make a 60 mile round trip to do something that can be done by going to the Honolulu airport.

There isn't any tourist development close by the airport, it's mostly a few homes and a Dole pineapple plantation. Waialua is five or six miles away. If the airport is allowed to remain open, it's not going to bother anyone unless they're overzealous anti-everything radicals. If it's closed down, nothing will be developed on the property, because if there was any demand for development, it would already be taking place on land near the airport.
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There are a lot of tech-happy people who think that airports are for your grandpa who flew a biplane. In case of emergencies they can expect to be recused by a drone from their driveway.
 
Tantalum said:
Trust me, I hate airports closing as much as the next guy, depressing that something like an average of 1 field closes a day. But, we're also operating in a free market. If you can't pull your weight and earn your keep, so to speak, then an airport is otherwise a fairly big waste of space. In some cases you have hundreds of acres of space sitting there that needs maintenance, upkeep, etc., just so a handful of decrepit planes can use it a few times a day

To save airports we need to save GA..!
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And to save GA, we need to save airports!

No GA airport, by itself, is going to "pull your weight and earn your keep". The value of EVERY airport diminishes a little for every airport that is closed. An easy example is Meigs. When it was open, it was THE gateway to downtown Chicago. At this point, with no airports anywhere near downtown, there is no reason for someone to fly their own airplane, or charter, to Chicago from many places because taking Southwest into Midway gets you into the closest airport to downtown much cheaper. So every airport that might have sent a plane to Meigs has lost operations and usefulness since Meigs closed.

The point of aviation is to get places quickly. If we get to the point that there are no longer airports that are near things that are desirable to travel to, we're done.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
An easy example is Meigs
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Fair points, and that was a sad place to see go.. but that's not really a fair example of an airport closing because it was unused

SMO is a good example of something that would suck to lose.. a relatively busy airport with no other good options nearby

I can't imagine this airport in Hawaii brings much value, economic, strategic, or otherwise..
 
Tantalum said:
Fair points, and that was a sad place to see go.. but that's not really a fair example of an airport closing because it was unused

SMO is a good example of something that would suck to lose.. a relatively busy airport with no other good options nearby

I can't imagine this airport in Hawaii brings much value, economic, strategic, or otherwise..
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Maybe not to you or me... But it does to someone, and for them it's everything. And if you close it, it will not only cease to bring economic value to its current users, it will also eliminate having it be economically viable for all future purposes.

Heck, build a nice resort around it... Easy to get to for the jet set!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Maybe not to you or me... But it does to someone, and for them it's everything. And if you close it, it will not only cease to bring economic value to its current users, it will also eliminate having it be economically viable for all future purposes.
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Most small airports don't generate enough direct income to balance the ledger, which is why they are government owned and subsidized. That's the hard part for a lot of people to understand that the value of the airport is not necessary dollars and cents in revenue, but the economic opportunities that come with it. Just imagine if all interstates became toll roads and were responsible for collecting all necessary revenue to maintain them. There is value in an interstate or an airport other than the value of the dirt and pavement.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Just imagine if all interstates became toll roads and were responsible for collecting all necessary revenue to maintain them.
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That's a good way to put it

Still, the airports you generally see close don't see much passenger traffic either. If you've got hundreds of thousands of passengers and cargo ops going through your airport then there's a clear value to it

A handful of 172's and Bonanzas are a harder argument to make

I guess my point is, I'm not surprised there are so many airports closing. That interstate also would NOT be built if there was no automobile traffic. And the once sprawling rail network is dying out, at least in the US, for passenger travel

The value, whether directly economic or not, still has to be evident

In the case of our Hawaii airport example I'm not sure the argument can be made
 
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