WTF California? They want to tax my aircraft when it hasn’t even been there?

mandm said:
Why give them any authority to BS claims? They don’t deserve a response…
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They are the government. You aren’t giving them authority, they have it.

Someone made a mistake. There is an authoritative way to prove they are wrong and they cannot refute it. Just do it and be done. The OP has spent more time arguing here than it would have to take a picture and close the case.

pop quiz, which hazardous attitudes are on display?
 
craig andrews said:
Yea. They said they were not going to drop this and it would remain active and they would continue to pursue until I sign and mail back their stupid form.

My brilliant wife told me to just ask them if whomever misrepresented my tail number being at their airport, also signs and attests to that fact under the same penalty of perjury. However, my wife is always thinking at a higher level than me, so maybe she actually wants them to come take me away. To be on the safe side, I did not take her advice.
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At this point, they’re not going to just quit because you’re angry about it. Adult up, fill out the form with documentation and be done. This isn’t worth you fuming about, just close it out.
 
There is always a simple solution to a problem like this. Don't over complicate or stress or have rage dreams about fighting the power ...

A simple statement of the aircraft's location at that time and that it was in fact not in California will suffice. When signed simply add the words Under Duress next to your signature.

Once you have responded it is incumbent upon them to perform due diligence and prove it was in taxable status. With out provable taxable status this just becomes a tedious and sometimes drawn out process of answering them with a lot of "NO" and not worrying about it much beyond that. What you should never do is ignore the letters or refuse to respond etc, just answer truthfully and refute/contest the situation and move on. Honestly most of the time refuting/contesting inaccurate info once or twice is usually enough, if it persists or they get to the "threatening" stage that's when you get the advise of a tax attorney and party on. Otherwise just answer the letter and don't worry until it's time to actually worry.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Where can you get 5 year old ADSB data, without having to pay for it?
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Looks like he would only need it to Jan 2023. With the free flightaware account I have, I can pull ADSB logs back 6 months, which would be enough in this case. If OP sends me the N-number, I can try to pull his record.
 
craig andrews said:
Yes, this is what they are claiming, i.e., that while I live 1300 miles from San Diego, I hangar in San Diego for the convenience.
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I'm sorry you are having to deal with this, but that phrasing absolutely cracked me up. "Hey baby, weather looks great in San Diego today, I'm going to catch a Southwest flight out there and do some flying. I should be home in time for lunch tomorrow!"
 
EdFred said:
You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Calling someone 'naive' as the totality of his response to a suggestion on how to handle the issue isn't a personal attack?
 
172andyou said:
I'm sorry you are having to deal with this, but that phrasing absolutely cracked me up. "Hey baby, weather looks great in San Diego today, I'm going to catch a Southwest flight out there and do some flying. I should be home in time for lunch tomorrow!"
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It isn't that rare for people to live out of state, and possibly have a second home in California, and have a plane that might bounce between the locations. There are legal ways to do without incurring California property tax/use tax, but you would generally be wise to consult a tax attorney who specializes in these issues to make sure you're dotting i's and crossing t's, because, yes, the tax agencies want their pound of flesh.
 
craig andrews said:
I suspect they will call my base airport and ask them to go out and see if my plane is in the hangar.
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And I will go check if the plane in question is in the hangar in question as soon as 100 bucks is deposited into my account...minus taxes, of course... :lol::lol:
 
172andyou said:
Calling someone 'naive' as the totality of his response to a suggestion on how to handle the issue isn't a personal attack?
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No, he said the response was naive. Big difference.

"The sky is paisley."

"That's the dumbest thing I've heard."

"Personal ATTAAAAACK!!!"

No. No it's not.
 
172andyou said:
No, their tax code allows them to tax any aircraft *based* there. So a resident of Nevada that bases their plane in California is still subject to California property taxes. Just like a resident of Nevada that owned a vacation house in California would be subject to property taxes.

So they are asserting that OPs plane was based there.
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Yeah but I would think the proof would require some kind of long term lease agreement. I could fly to CA for a month vacation and be parked there for a month and I'm certainly not based there and not paying property tax on my plane in CA as well as my home state. Classic overreaching gov't
 
Sounds like it’s a scam, it’s problem not from any government department in cali.

californias tax depart is called “franchise tax board”. If it has anything else on it, then it is for sure a fraud,

I wouldn’t pay them a dime,
 
Zeldman said:
And I will go check if the plane in question is in the hangar in question as soon as 100 bucks is deposited into my account...minus taxes, of course... :lol::lol:
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Then that means you owe us money :D
 
luvflyin said:
It’s happened to me. My plane was in California for half a year. Just slightly less than half a year actually. The Property Tax folk sent me the pay the Property Tax letter. I replied with a letter explaining why it was in California for that period of time. That was the end of it. Later I got a letter from the State Board of Equalization. That’s the Sales/Use Tax folk. Not that simple with them. They required documentation showing that the plane was elsewhere, not in California, for more than half of the year. That took more than just a few hours of my time to gather the information showing where it was and send it to them.
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Sounds like a nightmare scenario. Putting the burden of proof on the owner is ridiculous.
 
Or, if you're annoyed to the point of aggression have a CA resident hit 'em with a blizzard of the CA equivalent of FOIA requests for any/all docs and comms related to the charge. Then expand the requests based on those responses. Also file the complaints for the delayed responses, since it's near certain they won't get them to you in a timley manner. . . . find the name of an agency head, give him/her a call, maybe a local pol out there, local news. CA gov'ts are ravenous, and have the accountability of, well, CA gov'ts.
 
Bob Noel said:
The government only has authority granted to it.
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Just like fiat currency, cryptocurrency and government. It’s value is only what the people believe it is. You give it value because that’s what you were taught to, but can you live a life without giving value or power to those things? Difficult yes, but a different way of thinking.
 
bflynn said:
Adult up, fill out the form with documentation and be done. This isn’t worth you fuming about, just close it out.
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"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."
 
Sundancer said:
Or, if you're annoyed to the point of aggression have a CA resident hit 'em with a blizzard of the CA equivalent of FOIA requests for any/all docs and comms related to the charge. Then expand the requests based on those responses. Also file the complaints for the delayed responses, since it's near certain they won't get them to you in a timley manner. . . . find the name of an agency head, give him/her a call, maybe a local pol out there, local news. CA gov'ts are ravenous, and have the accountability of, well, CA gov'ts.
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Why does he need a CA resident? They opened the door with involving him.

The other thing is, I would ignore at least the first 1 or 2 letters, unless they were sent Certified or Registered. Opps, I must not have gotten them, or thought they were junk mail.
 
Aviatorbrew said:
Sounds like it’s a scam, it’s problem not from any government department in cali.

californias tax depart is called “franchise tax board”. If it has anything else on it, then it is for sure a fraud,

I wouldn’t pay them a dime,
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The Franchise Tax Board collects income tax. Property taxes go to the county, in this case, San Diego County as stated by the OP.
 
Having dealt with tax agency snafus before, I have found the quickest way to resolve things is to be truthful, firm, professional, and direct. Even the densest tax agent will eventually give up when buried in the facts. It's a PITA for sure, but if you don't respond, things can escalate quickly and get expensive. Put the onus on the tax agency to dispute your documentation, and put it in writing via registered mail. It seems very likely that this whole fiasco resulted from a likely typographical error, and things are threatening to spiral absurdly out of control.

I would submit any and all documentation available disputing their allegations, indicate that you have no intention of complying with their request for tax payment due to lack of evidence supporting the request, and politely but firmly ask that the tax request be fully dismissed without conditions. Dollars to doughnuts they will move on at that point. It's unlikely they will be able to effectively dispute your documentation, because they don't have anything useful to share. Keep in mind the low level clerks don't know real tax cheats from administrative foul-ups. They just have a case to pursue. Convince them to pursue some other case.
 
OK, I dun skrewt up. My Michigan registration renewal ended up underneath some other stuff and I didn't find it until March. Oops. Sent it in with the penalty for being late. OK, that's on me. Eventually I got back two registration certificates (showing the date paid) along with a letter telling me it's a crime to be flying without a valid registration - all on the same day. I ignored the letter. Today I got registration certificates 3 and 4 also showing that I paid. I wonder how long this will go on...
 
Daleandee said:
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."
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Seriously. This is a "first request". I wouldn't see this as any different than the time the IRS said I filed my taxes late. Uhh...no, I didn't... and here's the certified mail record to prove it...

I get it. They screwed up. Tell them they screwed up (in writing, using the form they provided), and move on.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
OK, I dun skrewt up. My Michigan registration renewal ended up underneath some other stuff and I didn't find it until March. Oops. Sent it in with the penalty for being late. OK, that's on me. Eventually I got back two registration certificates (showing the date paid) along with a letter telling me it's a crime to be flying without a valid registration - all on the same day. I ignored the letter. Today I got registration certificates 3 and 4 also showing that I paid. I wonder how long this will go on...
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Well, if you ever lose one (or two, or three), you're all set!
 
schmookeeg said:
Would calling the response "complete jerkdom and unhelpful" cover both sides of this split hair?
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I'm pretty sure you'd have to say something like, "You should be the king of jerkdom because you're such a jerk and everything that comes out of your mouth is stupid and useless!" in order for it to be personal attack.

Even smart people say or do dumb stuff every now and then, and calling them out on it by saying the opinion or the thing they did was dumb isn't personally attacking them or their character. It's a permutation of that whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" idea. You can call an opinion idiotic without calling the person who said it an idiot.
 
SkyChaser said:
I'm pretty sure you'd have to say something like, "You should be the king of jerkdom because you're such a jerk and everything that comes out of your mouth is stupid and useless!" in order for it to be personal attack.

Even smart people say or do dumb stuff every now and then, and calling them out on it by saying the opinion or the thing they did was dumb isn't personally attacking them or their character. It's a permutation of that whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" idea. You can call an opinion idiotic without calling the person who said it an idiot.
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:D so "no" I guess.

I frequently manifest unhelpful jerkdom, and found the "naive" remark to be exactly that.
 
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