Wrong Altitude for Direction of Flight

U

Unregistered

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I made a dumb mistake and chose a wrong altitude for direction of flight.

I was using flight following and was handed off from Center, to Approach, to Approach, to Center. The last Center controller advised me of the wrong altitude for direction of flight. He later asked me for my plane type. There were no close encounters with any other plane.

Should I be expecting a letter from the FAA? I have over 500 hours of cross-country experience and this is the first time I used the wrong even/odd altitude.

I have heard controllers tell other pilots they were at the wrong altitude and thought to my self, "that should not happen." I will of course never let this happen again.
 
Unregistered said:
I made a dumb mistake and chose a wrong altitude for direction of flight.

I was using flight following and was handed off from Center, to Approach, to Approach, to Center. The last Center controller advised me of the wrong altitude for direction of flight. He later asked me for my plane type. There were no close encounters with any other plane.

Should I be expecting a letter from the FAA? I have over 500 hours of cross-country experience and this is the first time I used the wrong even/odd altitude.

I have heard controllers tell other pilots they were at the wrong altitude and thought to my self, "that should not happen." I will of course never let this happen again.
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I assume that once you were advised of the wrong altitude you changed altitude. I wouldn't worry about it.
 
Seems unlikely the FAA will do anything. Since it was inadvertent, can't hurt to file an ASRS.

As an aside, I've flown with an almost due north magnetic course where a couple degrees difference would have put me in violation. I may or may not have drifted by that amount, making me in technical violation at times.

I think flights within about +/-3 degrees of due north or south are pretty much a crap-shoot in terms of satisfying the hemispheric rule.
 
I didn't think it was against the regs to fly at the 'wrong' altitudes. Thought it was just a recommended procedure albeit a very important and good one.

Flying VFR below 18,000 you can choose to fly at whatever altitude you like, no?

No violation here because there was no violation. Just a mistake of intent.
 
Bill Watson said:
I didn't think it was against the regs to fly at the 'wrong' altitudes. Thought it was just a recommended procedure albeit a very important and good one.

Flying VFR below 18,000 you can choose to fly at whatever altitude you like, no?

No violation here because there was no violation. Just a mistake of intent.
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Assuming he wasn't otherwise authorized by atc, is it not a violation of 14 cfr 91.159?
 
Not an issue. I have called up ATC asking for flight following at the wrong altitude for my direction of flight, then realized my brain fart and climbed to the right altitude. They said they weren't worried about it.
 
I wouldn't worry about it. If it was a big deal for the controller they would have said "possible pilot deviation advise you call xyz ARTCC when you land." since you said you were in Class E there isn't any separation required anyway for VFR aircraft.
 
I requested and got 10k for a flight from Wyoming to Lincoln NE. No one had a problem with it. 10k put me in between two cloud layers and allowed me to stay VFR and out of icing conditions.
 
ATC has asked me several times to fly at non-standard altitudes. I always did what they asked.... I wouldn't worry about it. Also, if you are in FL, it's different anyways....
 
Garthur said:
I requested and got 10k for a flight from Wyoming to Lincoln NE. No one had a problem with it. 10k put me in between two cloud layers and allowed me to stay VFR and out of icing conditions.
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jmp470 said:
ATC has asked me several times to fly at non-standard altitudes. I always did what they asked.... I wouldn't worry about it. Also, if you are in FL, it's different anyways....
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Well, 91.159 does have the clause "unless otherwise authorized by ATC...."
 
Garthur said:
I requested and got 10k for a flight from Wyoming to Lincoln NE. No one had a problem with it. 10k put me in between two cloud layers and allowed me to stay VFR and out of icing conditions.
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Only in the meteorological sense, as you did not adhere to Visual Flight Rules.
 
roncachamp said:
It is, and ATC can only otherwise authorize for Class B, Class C, and TRSA services.
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That may be in the controller's handbook, but it's not in the regulation, and pilots are not responsible for knowing the rules applicable to controllers. So if the controller authorizes it, then the pilot is not in violation of 91.159.
 
Ron Levy said:
That may be in the controller's handbook, but it's not in the regulation, and pilots are not responsible for knowing the rules applicable to controllers. So if the controller authorizes it, then the pilot is not in violation of 91.159.
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Can you cite a case?
 
On a technical level, you were in violation of 91.159. On a non-technical level, nobody cared enough to point it out until the last controller. It was obviously inadvertant, so file the ASRS form and treat it as a learning experience and a reminder that you're still a student.
 
Teach you to get flight following. Don't talk to cops or atc.:lol:
 
Ron Levy said:
Bad advice, at least as far as ATC is concerned. Unlike the cops, ATC's primary interest is safety. This reminder from ATC enhanced safety. Had the OP not been talking to them, safety would not have been enhanced. End of story.
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Agreed! As a VFR only pilot in the Northeast, I learned to fly at TEB (Teterboro, NJ) and now I'm based on Long Island (FRG). As you know, this is a very busy area of the country!

There are more times than I can count, that I'm glad I was talking (flight following) than not! :yes:. Even flying a G1000 with TIS.
 
redtail said:
Agreed! As a VFR only pilot in the Northeast, I learned to fly at TEB (Teterboro, NJ) and now I'm based on Long Island (FRG). As you know, this is a very busy area of the country!

There are more times than I can count, that I'm glad I was talking (flight following) than not! :yes:. Even flying a G1000 with TIS.
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Geez man, where the hell have you been? Out in Hollywood at the Academe Awards parties? :rofl:
 
Garthur said:
I requested and got 10k for a flight from Wyoming to Lincoln NE. No one had a problem with it. 10k put me in between two cloud layers and allowed me to stay VFR and out of icing conditions.
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Sounds like you were IFR though..When you're IFR the controller can clear you for whatever altitude he pleases/is able to.
 
GCA319 said:
Sounds like you were IFR though..When you're IFR the controller can clear you for whatever altitude he pleases/is able to.
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I'm thinking maybe he was VFR, but operating less than 2500 AGL? But either way, if ATC approved it, the pilot is off the hook (even if the controller might face internal sanctions for approving it).
 
Garthur said:
I requested and got 10k for a flight from Wyoming to Lincoln NE. No one had a problem with it. 10k put me in between two cloud layers and allowed me to stay VFR and out of icing conditions.
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I expect that you were filed as IFR. There isn't a hemispheric rule for IFR flight in controlled airspace. I file or request and am cleared to fly "wrong way" IFR altitudes all the time when they make operational sense as was true in your case. Sometimes ATC can accommodate my request, other times they can't. When ATC has a need to put me at a "wrong way" altitude while IFR, they have no hesitation issuing the clearance.

For "VFR flight" or "IFR flight in uncontrolled airspace", when below 18000 MSL and above 3000 AGL, hemispheric rules apply, but they apply to the course, not your heading.

The lowest easterly VFR hemispheric altitude for direction of flight is 3500 MSL, but for a good part of the country where the surface is at or above 500 MSL, it will start at 5500 feet or higher. Once one is above 3000 AGL, one should be using the VFR hemispheric altitudes for cruise or stay at or below 3000 AGL.
 
aw heck, I've been asked to fly 3200' - 7700' and 2400' - under VFR.

the argument made in thecase of contact from FAA is that ATC 'authorized' the altitude since after traversing several sectors no one asked you to change.

That said - this is not anything to worry about unless you had a fed close by monitoring someone else - even then.

And as John notes- there was a time I asked for 9000 southbound since under 8500 it was bumpy as hell and over 9700 the winds went from a 10kt headwind to a 35 knot headwind - ATC understood when I asked them cause I told them why I was requesting 9000. Was not a problem for 500 miles off airway. I encountered a couple of VFR targets at 8500 and 9500 and they turned me inside a turboprop at 9000 crossing ahead . . .
 
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alland said:
Different in FL ?
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He may have meant flight level, but the state of Florida is different as well. Jacksonville center is famous for assigning wrong altitude for direction for IFR flight going north and south.:eek: I kept thinking I was doing something wrong, but later found out that it's standard operating procedure. :dunno:
 
Florida is different.

For example, when flying South VFR at 8500 feet in Georgia, the left turn at Jacksonville, FL puts you at a heading that becomes substantially East of 180 degrees.

Since so many pilots fly this route, Florida generally has VFR flights remain at the same altitudes as the rest of the East coast.

I've been here in Florida for 30 years and just recently learned this. After Orlando approach explained it to me.

I asked if this encompasses the entire state of Florida, and the response was that west of Orlando, it reverts back to normal operations. I also asked where this was in writing and the controller did not know.

I've never found this "rule" anywhere and would love to see it in writing.

But, I have to admit that now that I fly the at the exact opposite altitudes, I do not have any oncoming traffic!
 
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cujet said:
Florida is different.

For example, when flying South VFR at 8500 feet in Georgia, the left turn at Jacksonville, FL puts you at a heading that becomes substantially East of 180 degrees.

Since so many pilots fly this route, Florida generally has VFR flights remain at the same altitudes as the rest of the East coast.

I've been here in Florida for 30 years and just recently learned this. After Orlando approach explained it to me.

I asked if this encompasses the entire state of Florida, and the response was that west of Orlando, it reverts back to normal operations. I also asked where this was in writing and the controller did not know.

I've never found this "rule" anywhere and would love to see it in writing.

But, I have to admit that now that I fly the at the exact opposite altitudes, I do not have any oncoming traffic!
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It's not in writing anywhere because it's not a rule.
 
John Collins said:
There isn't a hemispheric rule for IFR flight in controlled airspace.
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I've been told that there is such a rule in the controllers' manual (with certain exceptions). While that's not binding on pilots, it affects what altitude assignments they are allowed to give to IFR flights, and those are binding on pilots.
 
Palmpilot said:
I've been told that there is such a rule in the controllers' manual (with certain exceptions). While that's not binding on pilots, it affects what altitude assignments they are allowed to give to IFR flights, and those are binding on pilots.
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True, the assignment of altitudes using a hemispheric rule in the controller's manual is to simplify coordination and makes sense. The exceptions specify the coordination required. The exceptions are for traffic, weather, or aircraft limitations. The regulations are silent on the subject for IFR flight in controlled airspace.
 
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