Writer needs info re communication between pilot and ATC for area west of Dulles

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petersfreeman

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petersfreeman
I am a writer completing a fictional novel that involves my characters in an MD-11F on a flight from Minneapolis to Washington Dulles airport. The pilot needs to contact an ATC while somewhere over Cleveland, Ohio, then later while over Pittsburgh, and later approaching Dulles. Here are my questions/assumptions:

While over Cleveland, I assume the pilot would be in communication with Cleveland ATC. How would they address that ATC? Likewise for Pittsburgh? Likewise for Dulles? My first stab at it would be:

Pilot: CLEVELAND, FED-EX ONE FOUR NINE ROMEO, OVER
Cleveland ATF: FED-EX ONE FOUR NINE ROMEO, CLEVELAND

I assume line of sight range for VHF radio communications. As the aircraft travels towards Dulles airport, when could I expect the pilot to be in range of the Dulles ATC?

The pilot has a problem, not at the point where they would use the MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY call, but they would at least call PAN PAN, PAN PAN, PAN PAN

I assume that is what they would use as that would be what a nautical person would use in a situation that is not at present life threatening, but could develop into one.

Thank you for your advice.
 
Probably talk to “Chicago center” or just “Chicago”.

If its a issue they may just tell ATC something like “ATC be advised our radios are having issues and we will not be able to take the ILS”

Or “chicago we are getting a little flutter in our rudder, wed like to divert to XYZ to have it checked out”

Listen here
https://www.liveatc.net/
 
petersfreeman said:
I am a writer completing a fictional novel that involves my characters in an MD-11F on a flight from Minneapolis to Washington Dulles airport. The pilot needs to contact an ATC while somewhere over Cleveland, Ohio, then later while over Pittsburgh, and later approaching Dulles. Here are my questions/assumptions:

While over Cleveland, I assume the pilot would be in communication with Cleveland ATC. How would they address that ATC? Likewise for Pittsburgh? Likewise for Dulles? My first stab at it would be:

Pilot: CLEVELAND, FED-EX ONE FOUR NINE ROMEO, OVER
Cleveland ATF: FED-EX ONE FOUR NINE ROMEO, CLEVELAND

I assume line of sight range for VHF radio communications. As the aircraft travels towards Dulles airport, when could I expect the pilot to be in range of the Dulles ATC?

The pilot has a problem, not at the point where they would use the MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY call, but they would at least call PAN PAN, PAN PAN, PAN PAN

I assume that is what they would use as that would be what a nautical person would use in a situation that is not at present life threatening, but could develop into one.

Thank you for your advice.
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Cleveland center, Pittsburgh center, Dulles approach would probably work.

It would be likely a plane like that would have five characters in the number, so maybe add one.

Also, if you want to get really technical, go with niner instead of nine, but a lot of pilots don’t do that so not strictly necessary.
 
James331 said:
Probably talk to “Chicago center” or just “Chicago”.

If its a issue they may just tell ATC something like “ATC be advised our radios are having issues and we will not be able to take the ILS”

Or “chicago we are getting a little flutter in our rudder, wed like to divert to XYZ to have it checked out”

Listen here
https://www.liveatc.net/
Click to expand...
Thank you. I know that when the book is published, if I don't have these technicalities correct, pilots such as yourselves with rightly be scornful. To refine one of my questions, is PAN PAN used in aircraft communications, and if so, what are the criteria by which it is used?
 
Real life, at least in the US, no one really uses pan pan.

And entertainment and news has butchered every aviation peace to the point the bar is set quite low.
 
The best I have been able to glean is listening to real life situations posted on YouTube.
Salty said:
Cleveland center, Pittsburgh center, Dulles approach would probably work.

It would be likely a plane like that would have five characters in the number, so maybe add one.

Also, if you want to get really technical, go with niner instead of nine, but a lot of pilots don’t do that so not strictly necessary.
Click to expand...

Thank you. This is a big help.
 
petersfreeman said:
I am a writer completing a fictional novel that involves my characters in an MD-11F on a flight from Minneapolis to Washington Dulles airport. The pilot needs to contact an ATC while somewhere over Cleveland, Ohio, then later while over Pittsburgh, and later approaching Dulles. Here are my questions/assumptions:

While over Cleveland, I assume the pilot would be in communication with Cleveland ATC. How would they address that ATC? Likewise for Pittsburgh? Likewise for Dulles? My first stab at it would be:

Pilot: CLEVELAND, FED-EX ONE FOUR NINE ROMEO, OVER
Cleveland ATF: FED-EX ONE FOUR NINE ROMEO, CLEVELAND

I assume line of sight range for VHF radio communications. As the aircraft travels towards Dulles airport, when could I expect the pilot to be in range of the Dulles ATC?

The pilot has a problem, not at the point where they would use the MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY call, but they would at least call PAN PAN, PAN PAN, PAN PAN

I assume that is what they would use as that would be what a nautical person would use in a situation that is not at present life threatening, but could develop into one.

Thank you for your advice.
Click to expand...
Not today, ISIS... not today...
 
What about range? Would an aircraft flying from Minneapolis to Dulles always have a connection to an ATC? somewhere?

Another question I have is related to nomenclature. What is the most common usage of the word to describe those metal things in which you fly: plane - airplane - aeroplane - aircraft?
 
petersfreeman said:
What about range? Would an aircraft flying from Minneapolis to Dulles always have a connection to an ATC? somewhere?
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Yes they would.
petersfreeman said:
Another question I have is related to nomenclature. What is the most common usage of the word to describe those metal things in which you fly: plane - airplane - aeroplane - aircraft?
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metal tube. Bug smasher etc.
 
petersfreeman said:
What about range? Would an aircraft flying from Minneapolis to Dulles always have a connection to an ATC? somewhere?

Another question I have is related to nomenclature. What is the most common usage of the word to describe those metal things in which you fly: plane - airplane - aeroplane - aircraft?
Click to expand...

"Aircraft" generically refers to flying machines in general that carry people or cargo (except for ultralights, which the FAA decided were "vehicles" because they wanted as little as possible to do with regulating them).

"Airplane" is a flying machine with fixed wings and movable control surfaces. They're the things most people go to airports to fly in when they have someplace to go (or just feel like getting fondled).

"Aeroplane" is what British people call an airplane. They really need to learn English.

Colloquially, "bird," "tube," and "bus" are pretty common slang terms for airliners.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
"Aircraft" generically refers to flying machines in general that carry people or cargo (except for ultralights, which the FAA decided were "vehicles" because they wanted as little as possible to do with regulating them).

"Airplane" is a flying machine with fixed wings and movable control surfaces. They're the things most people go to airports to fly in when they have someplace to go (or just feel like getting fondled).

"Aeroplane" is what British people call an airplane. They really need to learn English.

Colloquially, "bird," "tube," and "bus" are pretty common slang terms for airliners.

Rich
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Thank you, Rich.
 
@petersfreeman -- You used Fedex 149R in your example.

No way in hell a Fedex plane is NOT flying IFR, or *GASP* without a flight plan on file.

The pilot will be in constant contact and need not worry about who to call.

Also, I think Fedex flights are unlikely to have an Alpha character in their call sign. Scheduled airlines never do.

[Someone will correct be about the Fedex flight call signs]
 
By the way, the "Any traffic please advise" was an inside joke.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
By the way, the "Any traffic please advise" was an inside joke.Rich
Click to expand...

Dag nabbit Rich! You've ruined the book for me!

Now there'll be someone debunking Angle of Attack, taking the active, and got'em on the fish finder.

Bugdestroyer 666 departing to the west, LAST CALL.
 
I am not 100% certain but I believe FedEx flights use their flight number instead of the airplane N number as their call sign, such as FedEx flight 705.
 
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petersfreeman said:
To refine one of my questions, is PAN PAN used in aircraft communications, and if so, what are the criteria by which it is used?
Click to expand...

I heard someone call "PAN PAN" a few weeks ago, on a CTAF. It was a helicopter approaching an uncontrolled gravel strip. He said something like "Pan pan, pan pan, Podunk Traffic, helicopter XXXX is heading for the north ramp..." Some pilots chimed in to ask if he needed any help, and he replied he'd hit his helmet on something and "I just need to land and stop the bleeding."

He sounded like he was in control of the situation, but just needed everyone to listen and pay attention and clear the ramp for him. Which is what "Pan Pan" is for: for when you're not having a full-blown emergency, but you need everyone to stop and listen. This was the first time I'd ever heard a Pan Pan. (And he landed safely.)
 
Ravioli said:
@petersfreeman -- You used Fedex 149R in your example.

Also, I think Fedex flights are unlikely to have an Alpha character in their call sign. Scheduled airlines never do.

[Someone will correct be about the Fedex flight call signs]
Click to expand...

Zeldman said:
I am not 100% certain but I believe FedEx flights use their flight number instead of the airplane N number as their call sign, such as FedEx flight 705.
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Correct. FedEx uses flight numbers. 1-4 digits after the “FedEx” callsign. 99.9% of the time, there’s no Alpha character. The only time we would use one is if for some reason two of the same callsign was airborne at the same time. Then they would give one FDX5054 and the other FDX5054A. But more than likely, they would just use a different number anyhow.
petersfreeman said:
...if I don't have these technicalities correct, pilots such as yourselves with rightly be scornful.
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Well, if you want your book to be technically correct, there is no FedEx flight between MSP and IAD.

Also, have you reached out to FedEx to see if they will allow you to use their company name in a fiction book? Might be worth looking into.
 
Sluggo63 said:
Correct. FedEx uses flight numbers. 1-4 digits after the “FedEx” callsign. 99.9% of the time, there’s no Alpha character. The only time we would use one is if for some reason two of the same callsign was airborne at the same time. Then they would give one FDX5054 and the other FDX5054A. But more than likely, they would just use a different number anyhow.
Well, if you want your book to be technically correct, there is no FedEx flight between MSP and IAD.

Also, have you reached out to FedEx to see if they will allow you to use their company name in a fiction book? Might be worth looking into.
Click to expand...

For clarity, in my example here in this forum, I used FedEx, however in my book, I have invented a fictitious company. I do want my book to be technically correct, so I would like to use call signs that would be consistent with those used by any freighting company.
 
genna said:
It’s Potomac approach at Dulles. Also, there is no “Over” in pilot communications

You’ll be going through these Centers Minneapolis, Chicago, Cleveland, Washington. There is no Pittsburgh center. And then Potomac approach.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...ato/service_units/air_traffic_services/artcc/
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Thank you. That gives me what I need to know. That's interesting about the use of "Over". It is quite standard in nautical communication, so I assumed it would be similar in aviation. This link: http://www.pilotage.com/student/radio.htm shows it in use and it looks official, yet when I listen to the YouTube radio communications related to emergency incidents, I don't hear it being used. In my book, I would rather used phraseology that is in general use instead of that which may be officially sanction but ignored.
 
To add some credibility to the script, I would somehow include a bit of cockpit chitchat regarding the aircraft’s Chemtrail production (a common freight carrier activity) - maybe about them turning the dispenser off now that the flight has drawn attention to itself.
Some of the Chem Pilots here could suggest proper wording.
 
There is a member here that wrote a book about ATC communications. I can't think of his id at the moment.
 
When ATF gives flight altitude instructions, is it always in metres or feet in the US?
 
Altitude is Feet, distance is nautical miles, speed is knots. Exception to that, would be above 18,000 feet msl (mean sea level), once there, the altimeter is set to standard pressure (29.92) and the altitude is referred to as "flight level". Flight levels are in 100's of feet, so flight level 190 would be 19,000 ft msl. Other exception on distance, is that visibility is in statute miles.

The one other color I would add for your scenario, is that for a flight under IFR, once in flight, nearly all the communication would be initiated by ATC. Only exception to that would be if pilot wanted to be routed around weather, try to get a more direct routing or if there is an emergency. Most of the time ATC initiated, climb to this altitude, change to a new frequency, traffic advisory etc..
 
genna said:
It’s Potomac approach at Dulles. Also, there is no “Over” in pilot communications

You’ll be going through these Centers Minneapolis, Chicago, Cleveland, Washington. There is no Pittsburgh center. And then Potomac approach.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...ato/service_units/air_traffic_services/artcc/
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Between each hand off, there is an exchange where ATC will tell the pilot to contact the next sector, with the frequency. Then the pilot will call in, state altitude. New ATC will confirm the altimeter setting.

Chicago Center: "Bugsmasher N1234, you are leaving my airspace. Contact Indy Center on 129.95."

N1234: "Contact Indy on 129.95. Thanks for your help."

[changes frequency]

N1234: "Indy Center, Bugsmasher N1234 at 9000."

Indy Center: "N1234 radar contact. Indy altimeter 29.20."

N1234: "29.20"

[adjusts altimeter.]
 
petersfreeman said:
When ATF gives flight altitude instructions, is it always in metres or feet in the US?
Click to expand...

You seem to have the basics (kind of impressive actually for a non-pilot) but it will still take a while to teach you the correct phraseology bit by bit on a message board. Might be easier if you write up the whole set of exchanges you have in mind and someone here can correct it for you.

I commend you for your diligence in making your book as accurate as possible. It is a bit of a pet peeve of mine when novels are glaringly wrong on things (protagonist cocking his Glock, ridiculous aviation stuff, etc...) that a quick proofing by someone with a modicum of experience could easily fix.
 
RudyP said:
Might be easier if you write up the whole set of exchanges you have in mind and someone here can correct it for you.
Click to expand...

To be accurate, EVERYONE here will correct it for days to agree to the "most correct" phraseology. <- That's just what we does :)
 
petersfreeman said:
For clarity, in my example here in this forum, I used FedEx, however in my book, I have invented a fictitious company. I do want my book to be technically correct, so I would like to use call signs that would be consistent with those used by any freighting company.
Click to expand...

Let us know when it goes on sale, I am interested in reading it already.
 
Book "Say Again Please" by Bob Gardner.

Then read the FAA Controller's communciations guide, keeping in mind that pilots don't follow that.

Nobody says "over".
 
Zeldman said:
Let us know when it goes on sale, I am interested in reading it already.
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Thank you. I hope to have it finished in January and handed to my editor, a copyedit done by February, and pitch it to agents of the "big five" in the spring in New York. The publisher has the choice of title and cover design. While I am writing, I use "working titles" for functionality of file naming, reference, etc. For this particular book, I have a working title of "Deadly Delivery". I won't give away the plot as it would spoil the suspense. I have roughed out the outline and written the first chapter of my next novel, "Escape!"

I have a non-fiction book, published by Seaworthy Publications Inc. of Florida, available on Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/Cape-Horn-Bi...1543943994&sr=1-1&keywords=Cape+Horn+Birthday if you are interested in true adventure stories.
 
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