Would you ride with this guy?

The problem with Creationism is that it assumes an omnipotent God would leave evidence to point to the act of creation.

Back to the OP, though, if you read "Flight of Passage", Rinker's dad repositions the Cub from a distant airport to their neighbor's grass strip so they can refurbish it for the big flight. The description of the bird's landing is pretty dang close to how the Cub was landed (in similar conditions).
 
OK, if say one of our adventures to Mars it returned a cockroach that could only have come from Mars, would it be more important than a cockroach found in say, any fine restaurant here on earth? Or would they just step on it and squash it?

John
 
John Baker said:
Lets see now, from a clever and highly skilled bird to Darwinism, God, medical miracles, Dinosaurs, J-3 Cubs, what's going to be next? This is a great thread, I love it. It has everything. Jets, sombody do jets.
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How about a little galactic evolution of barred spiral galaxies or expansion rate of the Universe? (Hey Kath, where'd you go? I haven't seen you around in a while.)

IMO, the thread drift is obligatory. Despite our overall intelligence, education, training, experience, opposed thumb, creativity and flat out cleverness, we have to divert the attention away from the undeniable fact that we've all had our collective butts kicked by a little bird.
 
steingar said:
Millions of years of evolution can do wonderful things.
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+1 It certainly can
Nature is beautiful in the ways that things evolve, Birds are at the top of such beauty.

steingar said:
Birds are highly evolved and adapted to function in their environment. From hollow bones for weight reduction to a countercurrent system for respiratory efficiency and more.
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+2
To everyone out there:
*Ahem, contrary to common belief, Darwin did not solely come up with the idea of natural selection. One guy did not just randomly say hmm this might be true. In reality, the entire scientific community pitched in their ideas of it, and it became a widely accepted theory. Evidence was presented for both sides, and thus within the biological and most of scientific community Evolution is an accepted theory.
 
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fgcason said:
IMO, the thread drift is obligatory. Despite our overall intelligence, education, training, experience, opposed thumb, creativity and flat out cleverness, we have to divert the attention away from the undeniable fact that we've all had our collective butts kicked by a little bird.
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I fully agree :D We have had our butts royally handed to us. I dont think the OP intended this to be a spin zone topic though... SO change of topic anyone?
 
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Mtns2Skies said:
To everyone out there:
*Ahem, contrary to common belief, Darwin did not solely come up with the idea of natural selection. One guy did not just randomly say hmm this might be true. In reality, the entire scientific community pitched in their ideas of it, and it became a widely accepted theory. Evidence was presented for both sides, and thus within the biological and most of scientific community Evolution is an accepted theory.
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For the time being, a large number of folks adhere to a certain theory.

There. That's all settled.
 
dmccormack said:
For the time being, a large number of folks adhere to a certain theory.

There. That's all settled.
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Is it this theory?

Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.


It is for this reason that I’m writing you today, to formally request that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. I’m sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also based on science, not on faith.


Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by observable evidence.


What these people don’t understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.
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or maybe this theory:


Wiki said:
Xenu, also Xemu (pronounced /ˈziːnuː/[1][2][3]) was, according to the founder of Scientology and science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions[4][5] of his people to Earth in a DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them using hydrogen bombs. Official Scientology dogma holds that the essences of these many people remained, and that they form around people in modern times, causing them spiritual harm.[1][6] Members of the Church of Scientology widely deny or try to hide the Xenu story.[7][8]
These events are known within Scientology as "Incident II"[9], and the traumatic memories associated with them as The Wall of Fire or the R6 implant. The story of Xenu is part of Scientologist teachings about extraterrestrial civilizations and alien interventions in Earthly events, collectively described as space opera by Hubbard. Hubbard detailed the story in Operating Thetan level III (OT III) in 1967, warning that the R6 "implant" (past trauma[10]) was "calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) [sic] anyone who attempts to solve it".[11][10][12]
The Xenu story is part of the Church of Scientology's secret "Advanced Technology",[9] normally only revealed to members who have already contributed large amounts of money.[13] The church avoids mention of Xenu in public statements and has gone to considerable effort to maintain the story's confidentiality, including legal action on the grounds of both copyright and trade secrecy.[14] Despite this, much material on Xenu has leaked to the public via court documents, copies of Hubbard's notes, and the Internet.[7]
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Personally I think the L.Ron theory is hooey but the FSM one makes a lot of sense ;)
 
Did you see the part in the Peregrine video, about it pulling 10Gs out of a dive. That would be like me doing a pull up and weighing 1 ton. My arms would fall off.

Oh, and I think I am going to convert to the FSM thingy. Church would be way more enjoyable!
 
The difference is the theory of evolution is supported by literally reams of data. I have described some of it, and there is a great deal more, some of it in a very technical format. The evidence for creationism, or the FSM, or Xenu or whatever other faith-based explanation is simply nonexistent.
 
steingar said:
The difference is the theory of evolution is supported by literally reams of data. I have described some of it, and there is a great deal more, some of it in a very technical format. The evidence for creationism, or the FSM, or Xenu or whatever other faith-based explanation is simply nonexistent.
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+1
HOWEVER I repeat, this post was to show the beauty of these animals, not be turned into a SZ topic
 
So noted. Seeing any animal do what it is best adapted to is usually poetry in motion.
 
John Baker said:
So, what do you guys think about pigeons, the feral kind, city pigeons, street pigeons?

John
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Ok, I will bite. Hmmm

Pigeons = Government workers.

1- too many are hanging around,
2- alot of motion and nothing really getting done.
3- they leave a huge mess and cleaning up after them is a full time job.
4- Illegal to shoot them.
5- can't eat them..... see above.
6- They will be here after all of us will be gone, like cockroaches.

Other then that I have no problem with them.:lol::lol::D:aureola:
 
John Baker said:
So, what do you guys think about pigeons, the feral kind, city pigeons, street pigeons?
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Pigeons make me think of visiting NYC as a kid, which we did often. Adults thought they were dirty so of course that made them attractive to me...
 
steingar said:
The difference is the theory of evolution is supported by literally reams of data. I have described some of it, and there is a great deal more, some of it in a very technical format. The evidence for creationism, or the FSM, or Xenu or whatever other faith-based explanation is simply nonexistent.
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So it is not Spin Zone to state unequivocally that some philosophical position is correct while the contrary position is by default limited to SZ?

Interesting....
 
dmccormack said:
So it is not Spin Zone to state unequivocally that some philosophical position is correct while the contrary position is by default limited to SZ?

Interesting....
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tin-foil-hat.jpg



:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
dmccormack said:
So it is not Spin Zone to state unequivocally that some philosophical position is correct while the contrary position is by default limited to SZ?

Interesting....
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If you are offended by a completely academic discussion of a scientific point of view versus a nonscientific one, then please say so and earn the first ever "ignore" from me. Evolution is not philosophy, it is Science. I actually thought the Spin zone was for topics of a political nature, of which Evolution is not in and of itself in most circles.
 
The earth is obviously flat. If you want to conclusively prove this, just look down a runway, it's flat. Unless it's the runway at Catalina Island, then it's not flat, it has a hump. The earth is not flat, it's humped.

All life on earth was brought to this planet by space aliens. If you want conclusive proof, just look at the pyramids or crop circles.

John
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I fully agree :D We have had our butts royally handed to us. I dont think the OP intended this to be a spin zone topic though... SO change of topic anyone?
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I AM the OP and have no clue how a discussion on the wonders of a bird would have managed to drift into spin zone material.

The thread drift is hilarious and I'm getting a kick out of the divergence. I however don't do spin zone, period. I'll delete my original post and all subsequent posts in this thread if it gets punted to the basement.

this post was to show the beauty of these animals
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Exactly...along with a little humor along with how easily they can make us all look like total klutzes.
 
Frank, I have to take issue with your OP on one point: your hero DOES have de-icing equipment. It's built-in. Birds are warm-blooded. :P
 
John Baker said:
So, what do you guys think about pigeons, the feral kind, city pigeons, street pigeons?

John
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Urban pigeons rock, because without them, there'd be no raptors in NYC (the rats are too big and mean for hawks and falcons to mess with). :D

They can be a nuisance, but they sure are something to see in their "intended" environment- like along the Palisades. First time I saw that, I thought "aha, now I get what pigeons are about..."
 
Frank, I have to take issue with your OP on one point: your hero DOES have de-icing equipment. It's built-in. Birds are warm-blooded. :P
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I helped a bird which had an anti-icing equipment failure!
It was a Jesus-bird (can't remember its real name, maybe egret but they call it that because it runs on the top of the water before takeoff). Landed in my backyard several years ago, fully iced-up one winter. We thawed it out while the blue norther passed then released it. I take it back, the anti-ice was working but even birds can't handle severe!
 
azure said:
Frank, I have to take issue with your OP on one point: your hero DOES have de-icing equipment. It's built-in. Birds are warm-blooded. :P
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I would question the effectiveness of such ice when compared to hot wings on a jet. :)

Of course, if there's freezing rain out the bird is probably saying to itself "What am I doing out here?!" and trying to find a warm hole to nest in.
 
Getting back to birds...
Today I watched a sparrow fly across the highway, approach at about a 40* glide path from above a moving SUV down to the ground toward, but stopping short of, the 5' retaining wall at the edge of the shoulder of the road. Thinking about that, sparrows (and most non-aquatic birds) don't have any takeoff or landing roll at all. Interesting. I wonder what their landing speed is.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Getting back to birds...
Today I watched a sparrow fly across the highway, approach at about a 40* glide path from above a moving SUV down to the ground toward, but stopping short of, the 5' retaining wall at the edge of the shoulder of the road. Thinking about that, sparrows (and most non-aquatic birds) don't have any takeoff or landing roll at all. Interesting. I wonder what their landing speed is.
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We have all sorts of birds at our feeder, and water birds visit the stream across the road. It's interesting the see the differences in approach and landing -- ducks & geese are like jets, using sturdy gear to absorb the impact.

Finches, sparrows, chickadees, and nuthatches all seem to hover for an instant before extending gear.

Birds must experience less turbulence given the small parcels of air they occupy and the built-in shock absorption designed into feathers.
 
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azure said:
Frank, I have to take issue with your OP on one point: your hero DOES have de-icing equipment. It's built-in. Birds are warm-blooded. :P
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Good point. I would think the extreme flexibility of the wings and the surfaces moving across itself would be more effective than heat. It's kind of like inflatable deicing boots for every square inch of wing area, top, bottom, front and rear.

Of course, if there's freezing rain out the bird is probably saying to itself "What am I doing out here?!" and trying to find a warm hole to nest in.
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And at that same moment, an airliner gets hosed down with deice fluid, rolls onto the runway and shoves the throttles forward. The bird knows better.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I would question the effectiveness of such ice when compared to hot wings on a jet. :)
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Yup, all that insulation works both ways.

Of course, if there's freezing rain out the bird is probably saying to itself "What am I doing out here?!" and trying to find a warm hole to nest in.
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Which just goes to show that some pilots don't have the sense that God gave birds!

Well, most birds anyway (just saw Dave's post).
 
This is one of my favorite bird videos. Especially at the 1:42 mark.



edit: D'oh - this wasn't already posted, was it? I didn't go through every post to check!


edit again: D'oh - yeah it was, way back on the first page. Ah well - I'll watch it again anyway.
 
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jesse said:
Didn't get me. I don't read start to finish. I jump around by reading a little of the start, a little of the end, and then fill the rest in if I think it's worth reading.
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You youngsters and your short attention spans......

:D:D
 
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