Worst Annual Inspection

brien23

brien23

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Brien
Inspections done out of the back of a trunk of a car or one done at a FBO, what bad experiences have you had. I can understand that some would never let anyone other than a FBO work on their plane others might have had a bad experience and go for the trunker. Anybody got any good stories about what some IA Trunker or FBO IA did or did not do to the Aircraft.
 
IMHO....it doesn't matter what vehicle the inspection eye balls rolls up in. An annual is an "inspection".....

FBOs are expensive dealerships...and need a mechanism to recoup the high costs of the bathroom marble and lobby cherry paneling.
 
It's all about the man turning the wrench, not the logo above the door or on the trucks door.

I had a FBO go hog wild doing a bunch of non airworthy stuff I never authorized, the. Wouldn't release my property till I paid them, well the states law did not agree with them, nor did the cop shop, they ended up giving me some free work, most of which I rather of not had done.

Best thing is to find a APIA you like and trust, who knows your type aircraft, and stick with him.
 
I do my own annuals then take it to the cheapest guy in the area for the usual pencil whipped annual. This way I am satisfied it's done correctly, and the FAA is satisfied that the people they collect money from signed it off.
 
Grum.Man said:
I do my own annuals then take it to the cheapest guy in the area for the usual pencil whipped annual. This way I am satisfied it's done correctly, and the FAA is satisfied that the people they collect money from signed it off.
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I'm sure every once in a while....he finds stuff you missed. :D
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
I'm sure every once in a while....he finds stuff you missed. :D
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Not to date, of course it's hard to when the airplane doesn't even get opened up. I know how I put it together and often leave little clues that I can tell if a cover or interior panel has been removed. Other than my self, the interior has not been removed to inspect pulleys and cables in the past 4 years and 3 different A&P's. Don't even get me started on how worthless IA's are.
 
Cowling screws so loose you could undo them with your finger. Nose wheel put on with no tension, so after landing, nose wheel tries to shake itself apart. Cowling not secured resulting in aborted take off. Prop seal split while trying to force prop on, resulting in oil streaming over the windscreen in flight.

Really, the condition inspection that ticked me off the most was one that resulting in 8K worth of work. They hardly did anything. They just spent an inordinate amount of time inspecting and fixing. Got a so called "composite expert" that sanded my gel coat down to bare fiberglass in several areas because of suspected cracks. Left a mess only to find out there weren't any cracks...yeah, I could've told them that.

I've really seen an overall lack of attention to detail in my experience with most A&Ps. Then again, most services outside of aviation I see a lack of attention to detail as well. Really, the only one to blame is myself for not getting my A&P. Could've saved a fortune over the years by doing it on my own.
 
Best I can tell most mechanics do the following at annual on my Grumman.

- Change oil and cut filter
- Re-pack wheel bearings
- Cleaned plugs
- Compression Check
- Check transponder batteries
- Check or replace air filter.

Heck one time I got the plane back and all the tires were low on air...
 
The best guy we've ever used had a big F350 pulling a 32 ft trailer, a full shop on wheels. Generator, compressor, presses, the whole deal. He picked up a full time job servicing the local air ambulances, so now we have to use other guys.
 
Grum.Man said:
Best I can tell most mechanics do the following at annual on my Grumman.

- Change oil and cut filter
- Re-pack wheel bearings
- Cleaned plugs
- Compression Check
- Check transponder batteries
- Check or replace air filter.

Heck one time I got the plane back and all the tires were low on air...
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Most all of which is quite easy and you can do as well.

Owner assist is the way to go!

The issue I had was the ONE time I had to just leave the plane and pick it up.
 
Which I do plus all the other things that are supposed to be done at annual that most A&P's don't do.
 
What I am finding is there's fewer and fewer experienced mechanics left to keep these old piston engine planes in the air. All the kids that graduate from the local tech program where I live want to work on turbines, especially turbine helicopters, because that's where the money is. Can't blame 'em, they got bills to pay and new mortgages too.

No problem finding mechanics that know C-172s and Cherokees, but most of the owners of the more complex older airplanes like Comanches, Mooneys and the Aztec I own, need to become familiar with the maintenance protocols and involved with the maintenance, or stuff just gets overlooked, ignored, or done wrong. I am fortunate there's still a few guys around my airport that know their way around an Aztec, but we lost one to old age earlier this year and the others are really getting on in years.

I thought about selling the Aztec and trading up to a Piper Malibu, but I can't fit in the damn thing. And a Cirrus, any Cirrus, is just not my cup of tea...
 
Grum.Man said:
I do my own annuals then take it to the cheapest guy in the area for the usual pencil whipped annual. This way I am satisfied it's done correctly, and the FAA is satisfied that the people they collect money from signed it off.
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I have no idea where that came from, but I've never paid the FAA any money.
 
GRG55 said:
What I am finding is there's fewer and fewer experienced mechanics left to keep these old piston engine planes in the air. All the kids that graduate from the local tech program where I live want to work on turbines, especially turbine helicopters, because that's where the money is. Can't blame 'em, they got bills to pay and new mortgages too.

No problem finding mechanics that know C-172s and Cherokees, but most of the owners of the more complex older airplanes like Comanches, Mooneys and the Aztec I own, need to become familiar with the maintenance protocols and involved with the maintenance, or stuff just gets overlooked, ignored, or done wrong. I am fortunate there's still a few guys around my airport that know their way around an Aztec, but we lost one to old age earlier this year and the others are really getting on in years.

I thought about selling the Aztec and trading up to a Piper Malibu, but I can't fit in the damn thing. And a Cirrus, any Cirrus, is just not my cup of tea...
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There is a real point here.. there are fewer and fewer IAs working the little airports. I'm seeing more and more specialists working small shops. such as fabric re-covering, avionics, engine rebuilds.
 
Joshuajayg said:
Mmm, mechanic bashing thread :) I never know what to do with these since I'm a working A&P and working pilot.
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Posts that are nothing but serious mechanic bashing make me wonder how well that person manages their own life not to mention their business and employees if they have them. Also makes me wonder what mechanical/engineering/regulations experience they have.

Almost everyone on a pilot forum loves to bash FAA regulation (sometimes even me) but rarely mention anything about similar crap on a different lawn when it comes to what they do for a living themselves (not FAA regulation related)
 
bnt83 said:
Posts that are nothing but serious mechanic bashing make me wonder how well that person manages their own life not to mention their business and employees if they have them. Also makes me wonder what mechanical/engineering/regulations experience they have.
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You'd have to know Brian 23, I take it you don't, I do, and you have no worries.
 
bnt83 said:
Posts that are nothing but serious mechanic bashing make me wonder how well that person manages their own life not to mention their business and employees if they have them. Also makes me wonder what mechanical/engineering/regulations experience they have.

Almost everyone on a pilot forum loves to bash FAA regulation (sometimes even me) but rarely mention anything about similar crap on a different lawn when it comes to what they do for a living themselves (not FAA regulation related)
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Amen.
 
Tom-D said:
There is a real point here.. there are fewer and fewer IAs working the little airports. I'm seeing more and more specialists working small shops. such as fabric re-covering, avionics, engine rebuilds.
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Sounds like a good market.
 
Supply and demand, if I were to get my APIA, I'd want to be heading towards fabric, piston, etc, if no one else wants to take these folks hard earned money ;)
 
With the Demise of GA, fewer good APs, AIs are around which stands to reason. Remember the word GOOD. They have taken their talents elsewhere to try and make a decent living. Choose your mechanic carefully!
 
bnt83 said:
Posts that are nothing but serious mechanic bashing make me wonder how well that person manages their own life not to mention their business and employees if they have them. Also makes me wonder what mechanical/engineering/regulations experience they have.

Almost everyone on a pilot forum loves to bash FAA regulation (sometimes even me) but rarely mention anything about similar crap on a different lawn when it comes to what they do for a living themselves (not FAA regulation related)
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There are problems with all those areas as well. You could throw DOD into that mix also. Worked with plenty of people in the military who had a general lack of knowledge, attention to detail, etc. You have standouts and slackers in every segment of society.

I've come across some fine A&Ps including my present shop but there have been plenty of times over the years that my planes come out worse than when I dropped them off.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
With the Demise of GA, fewer good APs, AIs are around which stands to reason. Remember the word GOOD. They have taken their talents elsewhere to try and make a decent living. Choose your mechanic carefully!
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'Tis true. I could easily make more money working on diesel engines or wind turbines. The only reason I stay in general aviation is because I like it. It doesn't pay the bills (yet). I have been through years of schooling and many additional years of practice to learn what the schools didn't teach me. The outcome is that I still get entry level pay for having people's lives in my hands daily. I am not doing it for the money but it would be nice to actually get compensated for my efforts. I'm tired of renting a basement; I want to own a house. I'm tired of borrowing planes; I want to own my own. But it will be a long while before that happens.

I've met problematic pilots who complain that their airplane shouldn't be that expensive to fix but they don't realize ten years of neglect (or more) makes things unsafe and often unairworthy.

I've met mechanics who don't like airplanes and don't care what happens to them, they just turn a wrench and go home. Other mechanics get burned out by cheap owners who argue an hour's worth of work and then cut corners to keep pilots happy.

It isn't easy and it isn't cheap to be in aviation.

Yes, choose carefully, communicate with your mechanic, and pay your bills.
 
And on topic, I read a disaster about a "maximum braking test" on a Fairchild 24...
 
Jimmy cooper said:
With the Demise of GA, fewer good APs, AIs are around which stands to reason. Remember the word GOOD. They have taken their talents elsewhere to try and make a decent living. Choose your mechanic carefully!
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I think it's demise is great overstated.

Seems the biggest issue I've seen with some APs is just a lack of sales/biz/personal skills, some of the friendly ones I know, have a simple website and phone number, don't mind taking a minute to say WHY something is needed, they do just fine. The guy I use has quite a few toys, nice hangar on the airport, couple planes of his own, modest house, seems to enjoy life.


Joshuajayg said:
And on topic, I read a disaster about a "maximum braking test" on a Fairchild 24...
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I think there was much more to that story.
 
Easy to check the number of ga aircraft now compared to twenty, then thirty years ago. It's around half.
 
missing gear nut
flap miscompare
trim so badly reinstalled, 2 pilots needed full use of 4 arms to keep nose down (yes, preflight could have caught) [wasn't me]
this one is cute; valve stem cap screwed onto protruding wheel bolt instead of adjacent and similarly appearing valve stem

A bad annual is an expensive one.
A really bad annual is one that kills you!
 
Once I was called to repair what another IA found on an annual, when I inspected the owner had a larger list of stuff to fix. After seeing what type of operation the owner was running I said no thanks find some one else. I don't want my name and number anywhere on this mess.
2 years later after he could not find any A&P that would repair his aircraft for what he was willing to pay, he scrapped the aircraft.
 
I've been doing owner-assist now for about twenty years and in general I get two kinds of folks ... those who have bent wrenches on automobiles, boats and such who do the grunt work without complaint (and generally do pristine work) and those who think taking a cowl screw off is too much work. Not many in-betweeners, thank heavens.
 
Last annual, they installed a landing light I didn't want, and the "oh, they drop right in, piece of cake" turned into 2.5 hours labor and a "huh? No... it was a very difficult install. They never fit quite right.". I wash it every couple of months and lose no paint, they wash it once and large flakes come off. My door lock worked when I took it in, and despite no squawk, they 'fixed' it and now I can't even get the key in it. Last annual, com2 didn't work because the audio hadn't been reconnected after removing the altimeter for repair....

Annuals are supposedly for safety. Why is it that I worry more after I get one? *sigh*
 
Did you accept delvery of the plane after they damaged it?
 
I think we should start a thread here about owners who are so cheap they think they should fly for free but think nothing of taking their Lexus to the dealer and paying $150 an hour. :rolleyes: There are probably more of them than bad mechanics. And likt Tom, I've seen some planes come in that were so poorly maintained I wouldn't consider working on them.
 
Mistake Not... said:
Last annual, they installed a landing light I didn't want, and the "oh, they drop right in, piece of cake" turned into 2.5 hours labor and a "huh? No... it was a very difficult install. They never fit quite right.". I wash it every couple of months and lose no paint, they wash it once and large flakes come off. My door lock worked when I took it in, and despite no squawk, they 'fixed' it and now I can't even get the key in it. Last annual, com2 didn't work because the audio hadn't been reconnected after removing the altimeter for repair....

Annuals are supposedly for safety. Why is it that I worry more after I get one? *sigh*
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Because you employ the wrong A&P-IA
OR
You believe all the horror stories, with out considering 2% of the people make 100% of the news.
 
Tom-D said:
Because you employ the wrong A&P-IA
OR
You believe all the horror stories, with out considering 2% of the people make 100% of the news.
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I wouldn't go that far, well over 2% of APs, for whatever reason, tend to suck at customer service as a crowd, some of the best wrenches I've met, great at working on the aircraft, precessional, passionate, but they drive folks away with the troll like attitude they put off and not wanting to answer even the shortest of questions. That's always puzzled me.
 
James331 said:
I wouldn't go that far, well over 2% of APs, for whatever reason, tend to suck at customer service as a crowd, some of the best wrenches I've met, great at working on the aircraft, precessional, passionate, but they drive folks away with the troll like attitude they put off and not wanting to answer even the shortest of questions. That's always puzzled me.
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you view a very small segment of the A&P community.
 
So, the annual was done at a well known Mooney shop, and my friends Lance was down for 7+ months because it took 4 attempts to get the tip tanks to stop leaking. Each time it was incorrectly installed. His exhaust tubes (not a mechanic, so I don't know what they're called), weren't aligned correctly after reinstalling so they interfered with the cowl. Mechanic's proposed solution? Cut away the cowl. lol. Fortunately that was prevented before it could happen and my friend found the correct procedure for aligning the tubes and showed it to the mechanic. This wasn't a back woods shop either, it was at a class C.

I was present when a mechanic hammered a valve out of a cylinder and replaced the piston with a large half moon indentation, reassembled the airplane and it was then flown to OSH for sale.

We could all go on...

2%? lol. Not saying all mechanics are bad, but since there aren't that many to start with, and the number of airports that are within range for an annual are few, it doesn't take many to create a "they're nearly all like that" atmosphere.
 
After reading all these stories, I can't wait to start my first annual on my first plane very soon... :)
 
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