Working on CFI - Advice?

RyanB

RyanB

Super Administrator
Management Council Member
PoA Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
16,523
Location
Chattanooga, TN
Display Name
Display name:
Ryan
I have decided to go for my CFI. I just took the FOI this evening and I’m about to begin the FIA.

All of the other certificates have a very clear cut path of how to get from A to B… CFI on the other hand seems to be a bit more complex. The school I’m using seems to have a pretty successful CFI program so I’ll be heavily reliant on my instructor to guide me to the finish line. The amount of information to learn is a bit overwhelming, but I’ll take it a step at a time. I love talking about flying and I’m getting into it for the simple joy of teaching others, so I hope to be a good candidate. Some friends said to focus on learning the knowledge and don’t worry about the flying part until later on. Any tips on how to navigate the road to CFI is greatly appreciated!

TIA
 
RyanB said:
CFI on the other hand seems to be a bit more complex
Click to expand...
CFI is simple. All ya gotta do is learn EVERYTHING.!! And learn how to teach it so others understand and correlate.

At least the flying part is easy. You have done all the maneuvers before. Now ya just gotta learn the maneuvers from the right seat.!!

If you like your flight school and instructor then you are probably better off staying there. Might also work it with your instructor to work with students on ground study units.

Just remember, the best way to learn is to teach.
 
Start with the CFI ACS. It will reference the other ACSes, AIH, AFH, PHAK and a bunch of advisory circulars and other documents. Get familiar with them and be able to teach the material. Yes, it is mostly ground work. The flying part will go quickly unless you have deficiencies in your flying that have to be corrected (one my CFI students couldn't do a bunch of maneuvers to commercial standards, even though he had just taken the checkride).
 
Last edited:
I would say try to find someone who been instructing for maybe 10 years and ask them to give you examples of how the fundamentals of instruction apply in a
real world settings.
 
Busflyer said:
Advice my Flight Instructor gave me when I was working on my CFI.
“Remember, all students are there to kill you.”
Click to expand...

When I became a CFI, I learned all new ways to kill yourself in an airplane that I never knew existed. You will be surprised how creative your students can be.
 
What kind of CFI do you want to be?
Teacher, Evaluator, Bored Frustrated FO wanna be who gossips about students, Retired Old Guy pretending to be epaulet officer and a gentlemen carrier Air Boss.

OK, I'm going over board here. There are a lot of great CFI's, and there are a few clunkers as well.

Background - I've had several CFI's. Most who bounced to the airlines, one right before my check ride. I've had one old timer. I've had some good ones. An example of a good CFI is one who realizes that what the CFI considers the simplest things the student won't know - because no one has taught it. For example - I learned on Skyhawks, and my first CFI showed me how to add oil - fairly easy. Example of a bad CFI - year or two later, new CFI checks me out on SkyLane. I need to add oil. It's not the same, but he doesn't tell me let alone show me how. His response "It's in the POH". No, it's not.

Some got in the airplane, asked "what do you want to do today?", and the lesson consisted of telling you what you were doing wrong, making me guess what I should be doing. Maybe someday all CFI's will look at the entire lesson plan needed to get to the check ride, tell the student what he/she needs to do next, teach on the ground first what will be done in the air.

Net Net, can't help you with the process of becoming a CFI. Just a suggestion to always keep in mind
 
I'm also working on CFI now. I have had some bad luck finding a CFI that can train me or work around my schedule.
Advice given to me by an older instructor, is to teach the FOI using examples in other parts of your life. The DPE is likely tired of the same stuff different day. He was a scuba instructor and another mentor was a white water rafting coach. I have been teaching Thai boxing for almost 20 years and can relate and share anecdotes and examples for just about all of the FOI. In addition, for the last 6-8 months I've been flying from the right seat and practice teaching to friends and family.
 
My best advice is to know the references for what you teach. Do not teach something just because it was the way you were taught. Find out if it is supported by the FAA materials.

In 2009, I was furloughed from my airline. Nobody was hiring so I got my CFI reinstated and spend the next year flight instructing.

I overheard a young, enthusiastic CFI teaching traffic patterns to a pre-solo student. He told him to fly the departure leg until 500' then turn crosswind.

After the student was gone, I asked him why you turn at 500'. He didn't know. It was the way his instructor had taught him to fly the pattern.

I asked him what the AIM said about when to turn crosswind and he didn't know. We looked it up together and he was surprised to find that it wasn't at 500'.

He then paged around in the AIM and said, "When I get hired at a regional, I should sit down and read this thing!". So, I'm not sure if I got my point across that day.

Look at everything you do in the same way. Why do we start the engine this way? What does the AFM and AFH say about it? How is each maneuver described in the AFH? What does the PHAK say about weather briefings, etc.?

Another thing is that a student is not always ready to learn what you are trying to teach. You will say the same thing over and over and they won't hear it until, one day, they'll hear it and wonder why you hadn't told them that before. That's completely normal.

Different students learn differently. An explanation that makes perfect sense to 80% of your students will not work with the other 20%. For them, find new ways to explain the same thing.

Let the student do as much as they're able to do, plus a little bit more. Do it yourself only when they can't, periodically to demonstrate the correct performance, and when they need to be offloaded a bit while they focus on something else they are learning.
 
RyanB said:
I love talking about flying and I’m getting into it for the simple joy of teaching others
Click to expand...
Same reason I went after mine! It's definitely rewarding on good days, especially after watching a successful and happy first solo or first cross country. It also, like anything, has its moments!
RyanB said:
Any tips on how to navigate the road to CFI is greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...
What helped me was creating my own lesson plans. There are ones you can buy but I was feeling lost, even with a good instructor teaching me I didn't really start "getting it" until I put together my own plans and my own 'course'
 
As a general commentary, the issue with most CFI candidates today (and to be quite honest most adding a rating or certificate), they treated all their previous certificates as a short term memory exercise they had to complete to get a certificate.

If you want the quick and easy, there are accelerated training schools with examiners on staff to rubber stamp your temporary certificate. They will have some low time low experience CFIs to work with you.

If you want to be a good CFI, it is about knowledge and communicating the correct knowledge and procedures effectively.

Assemble your library. Handbooks, ACs, FAR/ AIM ect. https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation.

Study the material in depth. You need to know the who, when, WHY, what and how of every thing.

Accept the fact you are going to assemble your own lesson plans and notebook. Then look the the CFI to work with. You will find more experienced CFIs will to work with you when you a least appear to be prepared.
 
Larry in TN said:
My best advice is to know the references for what you teach. Do not teach something just because it was the way you were taught. Find out if it is supported by the FAA materials.

In 2009, I was furloughed from my airline. Nobody was hiring so I got my CFI reinstated and spend the next year flight instructing.

I overheard a young, enthusiastic CFI teaching traffic patterns to a pre-solo student. He told him to fly the departure leg until 500' then turn crosswind.

After the student was gone, I asked him why you turn at 500'. He didn't know. It was the way his instructor had taught him to fly the pattern.

I asked him what the AIM said about when to turn crosswind and he didn't know. We looked it up together and he was surprised to find that it wasn't at 500'.

He then paged around in the AIM and said, "When I get hired at a regional, I should sit down and read this thing!". So, I'm not sure if I got my point across that day.

Look at everything you do in the same way. Why do we start the engine this way? What does the AFM and AFH say about it? How is each maneuver described in the AFH? What does the PHAK say about weather briefings, etc.?

Another thing is that a student is not always ready to learn what you are trying to teach. You will say the same thing over and over and they won't hear it until, one day, they'll hear it and wonder why you hadn't told them that before. That's completely normal.

Different students learn differently. An explanation that makes perfect sense to 80% of your students will not work with the other 20%. For them, find new ways to explain the same thing.

Let the student do as much as they're able to do, plus a little bit more. Do it yourself only when they can't, periodically to demonstrate the correct performance, and when they need to be offloaded a bit while they focus on something else they are learning.
Click to expand...
Maybe a better explanation is the message has to be tailored to the listener.
 
I will be the contrarian and say creating lesson plans from scratch is completely unnecessary and for most a monumental waste of time. A professional set of lesson plans will ensure you aren’t overlooking anything and serves to guide your studies.

I will never forget the first time I “taught” a lesson to the CFI who was prepping me after months of self study and practice thinking that I had everything nailed. He slunk in his seat said, “all you’ve done is made me wish I bought that bass boat instead of taking flying lessons .” It stung, but he was right. I had to recalibrate my delivery, keep things simple. That one admonition did more for me than all the other CFI training combined.

Lessons these days are almost always one on one. So ditch the lecture style delivery and instead hone a conversational style.
 
Walboy said:
It stung, but he was right. I had to recalibrate my delivery, keep things simple. That one admonition did more for me than all the other CFI training combined.
Click to expand...
That's a good one. You're teaching them what they need to know to meet their goals, not trying to impress them with the depth of your knowledge.

Find out what you student's goals are in aviation and what their interests are in life. Provide more detail, than strictly required, in those areas to engage their interests. Give them additional information and references about what topics that relate to their goals, even if they aren't applicable to their current training, to keep them motivated toward their goals. This is also good customer service as you're looking out for their interests beyond the current lesson.

For example, if you private pilot student is learning to fly so that he can eventually own an airplane and use it for business transportation, talk to him about aircraft ownership when he finds a squawk on preflight. Show him the unique pitch-trim system on a Mooney that happens to be parked on the ramp. Tailor the cross-country training in the context of a business trip, etc.
 
RyanShort1 said:
I would say try to find someone who been instructing for maybe 10 years and ask them to give you examples of how the fundamentals of instruction apply in a
real world settings.
Click to expand...
That outdated hunk of trash? Come on man, we're better than that.
 
Larry in TN said:
One more thing...

Treat your students as customers, not employees. You are there to serve them, not the other way around. Read a couple of books on customer service.

I learned quite a log from this one: https://www.amazon.com/Delivering-K...p-0814417558/dp/0814417558/ref=dp_ob_title_bk
Click to expand...

Most customers don’t require training, direction, evaluation and supervision. Flight students do. This should be addressed as a coaching process not a customer service process.
 
As everyone here probably knows, every student is an individual with different goals and different learning styles. Learn that about each student and adjust teaching style to fit.

I had a few instructors that did not know that and we did not play well together. Once I found an instructor who understood, things moved along quickly. When I started instructing, I tried to follow the example of my instructor.
 
Zeldman said:
At least the flying part is easy. You have done all the maneuvers before. Now ya just gotta learn the maneuvers from the right seat.!!
Click to expand...
While talking about what you are doing (right and wrong).

And watching someone else fly and figuring out what they are doing wrong. They WILL come up with new and interesting ways to do things wrong. And about the time you think you have seen everything, they WILL come up with a new way. :D
 
Walboy said:
I will be the contrarian and say creating lesson plans from scratch is completely unnecessary and for most a monumental waste of time.
Click to expand...
Making your own is a good way to get intimately familiar with the source material. There are other ways to do so, but will take just as much time. You can read the handbooks cover to cover but not only is that boring, but it's been scientifically shown to be the worst study method.
 
Walboy said:
I will be the contrarian and say creating lesson plans from scratch is completely unnecessary and for most a monumental waste of time. A professional set of lesson plans will ensure you aren’t overlooking anything and serves to guide your studies.

I will never forget the first time I “taught” a lesson to the CFI who was prepping me after months of self study and practice thinking that I had everything nailed. He slunk in his seat said, “all you’ve done is made me wish I bought that bass boat instead of taking flying lessons .” It stung, but he was right. I had to recalibrate my delivery, keep things simple. That one admonition did more for me than all the other CFI training combined.

Lessons these days are almost always one on one. So ditch the lecture style delivery and instead hone a conve
Click to expand...
If the FAA believed it was adequate to purchase canned lesson plans, they would have included a section in Chapter 7 of the Aviation Instructors Handbook on how to evaluate commercially produced lesson plans vs how to prepare them.

As a CFI, you are required to be able to produce written lesson plans. To do it effectively, you have to produce and present a lot of them. It’s a constant endeavor to improve the lesson plan each time it’s presented to effectively communicate the content and the message.
 
Last edited:
It really takes actually teaching to figure out good ways to do it. If you can arrange it, have -your- CFI supervise while you “teach” a subject or two to a real live student. Your CFI should only jump in if you “teach” incorrect information or get stumped by the student’s questions. They shouldn’t jump in simply because you explain something in a different way than they do. After the student is gone, your CFI can go through alternative ways to explain whatever you were teaching.

“An amateur practices until they get it right. A professional practices until they stop getting it wrong…”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Clip4 said:
As a CFI, you are required to be able to produce written lesson plans.
Click to expand...

Nope. Just checked the ACS, it says nothing about producing written lesson plans. It says you must produce a lesson plan, which could be a simple outline on the back of an envelope.

Plenty of excellent CFIs out there have never prepared a written lesson plan. CFIs I know who got their ticket from military experience have never even cracked open the FAA Instructor Handbook or even heard of it for that matter.

1720549345787.png
If producing your own lesson plans is an effective way for you to study, then by all means do so.
 
Walboy said:
I will be the contrarian and say creating lesson plans from scratch is completely unnecessary and for most a monumental waste of time. A professional set of lesson plans will ensure you aren’t overlooking anything and serves to guide your studies
Click to expand...
I take a middle ground. I think it's necessary to know how to create lesson plans. Not everything you will ever give a lesson on exists on the day of your checkride. That's in turn means creating some. But it's not necessary to rewrite a book which has been written by experts in the field over the course of many years.

When I did my CFI checkride, I had a big notebook of lesson plans handed down to me by my CFI (not even commercial) and maybe a half dozen I wrote myself. I've written twice as many since, and have modified them from time to time. Actually modified one of my own yesterday. Anyway, seeing the big binder with what were obviously photocopies of photocopies of photocopies, my Examiner said, "Great. No need to reinvent the wheel. Now let see if you know how to use 'em."
 
Last edited:
Walboy said:
Nope. Just checked the ACS, it says nothing about producing written lesson plans. It says you must produce a lesson plan, which could be a simple outline on the back of an envelope.

Plenty of excellent CFIs out there have never prepared a written lesson plan. CFIs I know who got their ticket from military experience have never even cracked open the FAA Instructor Handbook or even heard of it for that matter.

View attachment 131132
If producing your own lesson plans is an effective way for you to study, then by all means do so.
Click to expand...
You may be correct but I guess you snipped the wrong part of the ACS. What you snipped says you need to exhibit the skill to "Prepare an instructional lesson plan..." not "produce."
 
I have always been a strong advocate of building your own lesson plans. It's a skill you need to have, and when else are you going to force yourself to practice that skill then while in CFI training? I've posted my views on this before:

I said:
If you've never written lesson plans for pilot training, then it isn't "reinventing the wheel" to you.

The thought process involved in constructing the lesson plans is the point of doing it, not the result, and that process is very valuable.

I wrote all of my own lesson plans, and I'm glad I did. A lot of my training now is specialized, tailored training - someone puts in a new piece of avionics equipment, and they want me to train them on it. So, I create a lesson plan for that one instance. Maybe I'll use it again sometime later, but maybe not. That's part of what they're paying me for. Had I not developed my own plans in training, I likely wouldn't have the background and experience to do it well now.
Click to expand...

I also said:
This is one case where it's not the result that matters, it's the process. Developing the lesson plans, and thereby developing the ability to structure your thinking is the whole point.

I'll paste something I posted in a similar thread about a year ago:

Build your own lesson plans. That way you will not only understand the material far better, but will be better equipped when a client asks you if you can train them on some non-standard item that you don't already have a lesson plan for. You will know how to construct one for maximum effectiveness and therefore know exactly what needs to be modified or expanded when it isn't working right. It's by far the best way to learn to be an effective CFI.
Click to expand...
 
Clip4 said:
As a CFI, you are required to be able to produce written lesson plans. To do it effectively, you have to produce and present a lot of them. It’s a constant endeavor to improve the lesson plan each time it’s presented to effectively communicate the content and the message.
Click to expand...

Walboy said:
Nope. Just checked the ACS, it says nothing about producing written lesson plans. It says you must produce a lesson plan, which could be a simple outline on the back of an envelope.
Click to expand...

As @midlifeflyer pointed out, the ACS actually says "prepare" lesson plans.

But regardless, note that @Clip4 didn't say anything about the checkride or the ACS in his post. He said "As a CFI" not "As a CFI-in-training". And I absolutely agree. An instructor (in any field) who doesn't know how to prepare a lesson plan isn't much of an "instructor". And to do it well takes practice. What better time to practice than when you're in training to become a CFI?
 
Walboy said:
Nope. Just checked the ACS, it says nothing about producing written lesson plans. It says you must produce a lesson plan, which could be a simple outline on the back of an envelope.

Plenty of excellent CFIs out there have never prepared a written lesson plan. CFIs I know who got their ticket from military experience have never even cracked open the FAA Instructor Handbook or even heard of it for that matter.

View attachment 131132
If producing your own lesson plans is an effective way for you to study, then by all means do so.
Click to expand...

There are many skills and a lot of knowledge that aren’t included in the ACS. Good pilots and CFIs still have to know them.


There is not a single excellent CFI who never prepared a lesson plan, though I suppose there may be some who think they are excellent.

Since you never read or don’t remember the information on pages 7-7 and 7-8 of the Aviation Instructor’s Handbook, I suggest you go back today and read it. No where does it support your opinion and you are demonstrating your total lack of knowledge of FAA instructor material on this topic.


The FAA says, “The development of lesson plans by instructors signifies, in effect, they have taught the lessons to themselves prior to attempting to teach the lesson to learners”. “Successful professionals understand the price of success is hard work and through preparation” vs “creating lesson plans from scratch is completely unnecessary and for most a monumental waste of time.”
 
Last edited:
Military instructors do not develop lesson plans, and they took me from zero to solo in a jet landing on a carrier in a 150 hours. At that point I was proficient in a high performance turbo prop as well. Proficient in 2 ship, 4 ship day and night formation. Proficient in instrument flying and procedures. Aerobatics and air to air gunnery. All in 150 hours from guys who never developed a single lesson plan.

I was a military instructor also. Had to evaluate students to a whole nuther level… and did so without ever developing a lesson plan.

It’s not absolutely necessary.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I take a middle ground. I think it's necessary to know how to create lesson plans. Not everything you will ever give a lesson on exists on the day of your checkride
Click to expand...
I wish I could find the thread, but I believe it was here that an applicant once complained about busting his oral because he was expected to come up with a lesson plan for a Flight Review. He basically claimed it was an impossible task.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I wish I could find the thread, but I believe it was here that an applicant once complained about busting his oral because he was expected to come up with a lesson plan for a Flight Review. He basically claimed it was an impossible task.
Click to expand...
I don’t recall it but my first thought is…

…and yet, his examiner had a lesson plan for the oral.
 
When I took my CFI checkride,(1995) I walked into the office and the examiner asked me if I had what it takes to be an instructor. I stuck my hand in my pocket and handed him a fist full of bills. In return, he handed me my temporary. Ok, not really, he said that is a good start, lets do the rest for fun. He had a real dry sense of humor...

As far as lesson plans, I had gotten my subject the day before, and did a flight plan off that. He looked at it for a few minutes, handed it back and that was it for lesson plans.
 
I used the Backseat Pilot for my lesson plans. Now after I bought them, I went through them updating things for my style, the aircraft being used, etc. I made them my own without having to reinvent the wheel.

During my check ride I brought everything, PHAK, FAR/AIM, lesson plans, etc. I was given a legal note pad and told to generate a lesson plan on the spot for Crosswind landings. I did it from scratch, then pulled out my "binder" just to review and make sure I didn't miss anything...I didn't, and the DPE was quite impressed, which knowing the DPE is impressive. And not to toot my own horn, because I honestly consider myself average at best, but I have had many students rave about my instructing, and DPEs quite satisfied with the students I've sent them. I think I've done ok for an instructor that didn't write his own plans.
 
MauleSkinner said:
But you knew how, and could do it if necessary. That’s the difference.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Just trying to paint a different color than black or white on the question of every CFI must write their own plans.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I don’t recall it but my first thought is…

…and yet, his examiner had a lesson plan for the oral.
Click to expand...
DPEs are required write a Plan of Action for each practical test. The plan of action must include a pre-test, pre-flight and post flight briefing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top