Winter engine start options when electricity is not available

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josephades

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Winter is right around the corner and I was wondering if there were any options to help pre heat the engine when electricity is not available at the tie down where I park the plane

My plane does have a 100w/120v pre heater attached. I was thinking to have a solar setup. Put the solar panel itself right on top of my lock box, and the rest of the equipment inside the box. For this much electricity, seems like it's not going to be so easy.

Was wondering if I can get input from others who are more experienced in this dept

Thanks in advance!

(1976 Piper Archer II)
 
Doubt that solar is going to have the juice to keep the plane warm
 
I use a Red Dragon and a 1500W generator to power my oil pan heater and a small heater inside the cabin..:).
 
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James331 said:
Doubt that solar is going to have the juice to keep the plane warm
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Even it does (100 watt solar panels are 5'x3'), it won't when it really matters, in early morning hours. By afternoon if sunny the plane should warm up enough unless it's below 0F
 
You can buy a pre-made combustion pre-heater or you can shade tree engineer one on your own.

Solar panels are OK sometimes, but they have limitations (clouds, snow are issues) and one big enough to keep your airplane warm will be uge.SolarArray10Kw.JPG
 
John
It does get cold here, some days I wished I lived in the lower 48. If I ever retire I would like to winter down south and spend the summers in AK.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I recommend using a hose hooked up to the hot water heater. Just basic horse sense.
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Why do you heat your hot water? I guess it's cheaper to run than a cold water heater but you'd have to pay more for the hot water to begin with...
 
Here's a post I made on the supercub site a few years back. I still have the ammo box heater but honestly I prefer to plug my Reiff Turbo XP system into a 1000watt portable generator. I park outside and don't have access to power so portable power or combustion heat is all I use.


Homemade heater box instructions.

1) Buy surplus Army ammo box, cut a couple of 3" holes in the top and weld in approx 3" lengths of 3" rigid conduit nipples. I added stove door rope seal and a little hi-temp silicone to seal things up. Drill 1" holes around the bottom perimeter of box for air vents.
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2) I prefer my MSR XGK expedition stove as a heat source. Any stove with a detachable fuel tank will work.
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3) Buy a couple of 5' pieces of 3" hi-temp scat hose.
heater_003.jpg


4) Set it up and light it!
heater_004.jpg


Here's a top view of the unit ready to burn.
heater_005.jpg


My heater is cheap, durable, easy to make, and everything stores inside the ammo box. Get out in the garage and get busy!
 
Sump your tanks, pour the 100LL on the engine, ignite. It will make the engine kind of warmish.

We have portable preheaters at the FBO I work at during the winter. It is a kerosene heater you use to heat a shop and a generator to power it.

This kerosene heater.
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Don't sump tanks when park in freezing temps. Ice won't drain through the valve but it sure as heck will get stuck in it and cause a leak.
 
Joshuajayg said:
Sump your tanks, pour the 100LL on the engine, ignite. It will make the engine kind of warmish.

We have portable preheaters at the FBO I work at during the winter. It is a kerosene heater you use to heat a shop and a generator to power it.

This kerosene heater.
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It requires electricity.
 
Stewartb said:
Don't sump tanks when park in freezing temps. Ice won't drain through the valve but it sure as heck will get stuck in it and cause a leak.
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I prefer to see the leak on the ground as oppose to flaming out because ice plug the fuel pickup.
 
Joshuajayg said:
We have portable preheaters at the FBO I work at during the winter. It is a kerosene heater you use to heat a shop and a generator to power it.

This kerosene heater.
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I'd be careful using that heater to heat your shop. The one I had like that put out a decent amount of CO. OK, for an open garage, but lousy for enclosed space.
 
flyingron said:
I'd be careful using that heater to heat your shop. The one I had like that put out a decent amount of CO. OK, for an open garage, but lousy for enclosed space.
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Agreed. We didn't use one to heat a shop but I have often seen them used for that.
 
I don't use diesel heaters on airplanes because they stink, even with Pearl Kerosene. I do find reason to have portable heat for other tasks. Screw a cheap inverter on the side and a 12v battery will run it fine.
 

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flyingron said:
I'd be careful using that heater to heat your shop. The one I had like that put out a decent amount of CO. OK, for an open garage, but lousy for enclosed space.
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My propane version would set off the CO alarm fairly quickly unless I set it up to suck outside air with a door cracked open.

The other thing that makes lots of CO is oxygen / acetylene welding. It's surprising (at least to me) how quick that sets the alarm off. Cutting probably isn't as bad because you are blasting it with lots of extra O2.
 
teejayevans said:
I prefer to see the leak on the ground as oppose to flaming out because ice plug the fuel pickup.
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Silly boy. Ice cubes won't drain through pin holes. The first time you shove your sample cup into the hole and find it frozen solid? Walk away. That frozen moisture isn't going anywhere. I park outdoors all winter in Alaska so I have a little practical experience with it. Jamming a quick drain open is not what you want to do after spending half a day prepping for a flight.
 
flyingron said:
I'd be careful using that heater to heat your shop. The one I had like that put out a decent amount of CO. OK, for an open garage, but lousy for enclosed space.
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Pretty much every tented construction site I've ever worked on or seen is inflated by diesel or propane heaters. Nobody tips over from that. The smell keeps you from spending too much time in the fumes.
 
Another popular preheater. This one isn't made anymore. It's a Coleman Survival Cat. There are other propane catalytic heaters on the market. Whether they'll work for you is determined by whether you can fit one inside your cowl. Not fast but given enough time they work fine.
 

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Stewartb said:
Silly boy. Ice cubes won't drain through pin holes. The first time you shove your sample cup into the hole and find it frozen solid? Walk away. That frozen moisture isn't going anywhere. I park outdoors all winter in Alaska so I have a little practical experience with it. Jamming a quick drain open is not what you want to do after spending half a day prepping for a flight.
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I got that, but OP recommended not checking the fuel. Sooo, do you not fly in freezing temps in Alaska or not check the fuel?
Personally I find a 3rd option.
 
I don't sump tanks in winter temps. I don't drain my gascolater unless engine preheat has warmed it above freezing. If I suspect ice needs to be addressed I'll add isopropyl to my tanks. Sumping for water in sub freezing temps doesn't work. Nobody ever told me that. I learned it the hard way.

When it finishes getting light here I need to make a flight. I'll be dealing with frost on the plane since I didn't put covers on. Not quite preheat temps but those aren't far off. Winter is coming quickly.
 
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teejayevans said:
I got that, but OP recommended not checking the fuel. Sooo, do you not fly in freezing temps in Alaska or not check the fuel?
Personally I find a 3rd option.
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That's great if a third option is available...but see if you can find a fuel starvation accident where water in the fuel tank that was already frozen on the ground caused a problem in flight.
 
The propane ones that run off a 12V battery for the blower and hook it to the battery of your car. Park the car next to the airplane, hook up the hose from the heater to the airplane, hook up the battery to the blower and go into the FBO and wait an hour or so. What a hassle. I took off in 10 degree weather once without any preheat. I did it, but dont recommmend it. I had to scrape frost off the wings. Yuck. It was COLD!

In some really cold climates they take the oil out the night before and pour it in hot the next morning. Now thats tough!

I once changed a clutch in the gravel parking lot of a liquor store in Farmington NM in the dead of winter. With no gloves so there!

I was in Alamosa CO once and it got to 49 below!
 
Thanks everyone for your input! A lot of great solutions that I will be analyzing.

If I jump start the plane through my car, is that an option? From my understanding, the plane will start in cold weather, it's just the battery that takes a beating in the cold, therefore, there is not enough juice to get the plane started.

One mechanic also suggested pouring a few ounces of 100LL into the oil tank to help the oil "move around" easier


timwinters said:
@josephades

Maybe I missed it but, where are you?
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KFRG
 
Tannis engine heaters require 240 watts for four cylinders, and 460 watts for six cylinders. Would a portable gas-powered generator be capable of delivering that much power for at least six hours?
 
No...don't go dumping gas into the oil. That'll be sure and screw up your engine.

Cold starts are the most abusive events on our engines. Dissimilar metals shrink and expand differently at extreme temperatures. So, in the cold there are many parts that "rub" due to shrinkage. :eek:

If you want to wear out an engine quick....go and do lots of colds starts.

Pre-heating is your friend in reducing engine wear.
 
josephades said:
If I jump start the plane through my car, is that an option? From my understanding, the plane will start in cold weather, it's just the battery that takes a beating in the cold, therefore, there is not enough juice to get the plane started.

One mechanic also suggested pouring a few ounces of 100LL into the oil tank to help the oil "move around" easier
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The problem is also accelerated wear on your engine without proper lubrication from warm oil...if your battery is good and you prime properly, you shouldn't need a jump.

The airplanes that used to inject fuel into the oil for cold starting did it before shutdown so it was thoroughly mixed, not as a preflight fix...the damage will probably be done by the time the thinned oil gets into the system if you add the fuel on preflight. They also had charts for the amount of fuel to add based on the ambient temperature for starting to minimize the damage (which still happens with this solution).
 
In a bind, dryer hose from Lowe's/Home Depot/etc. to pipe car exhaust into the cowling will provide heat but also expect impressive amounts of condensation.
 
Yes, cold starts are hard on engines but I don't live in the tropics so I deal with it. TCM says pre-heat when the engine is cold soaked below 20* F. Lycoming says 10* F. I use low-20s for all my engines but how I heat and for how long depends on lots of factors. I've started a TCM in single digits because I had to. I've frosted plugs trying to start in the teens, too. The 20s are no big deal. Get a good pre-heat system and give it time to work. I have a box on my table from Reiff as I write this. My new Cub will get the Turbo XP system just like my other planes have. With 3-4 hours on my 1000w generator my engines are toasty. I can get by in 0* or above temps with 2 hours but more is better. Red Dragons are junk. You won't use one long enough to heat your oil. The cylinders will get warm and will fire easily but that goo in your sump won't circulate. Oil pad heaters aren't much better. The oil is warm so the engine will spin but the cylinders are cold. That's a great way to frost plugs. My combustion heaters work but they require that I attend to them. Standing around in sub-zero temps isn't fun. A generator is way better. I can go back to bed, back to work, or just in for coffee and don't have to worry about fire.

By the way, my 1975 Cessna 180 was factory equipped with an oil dilution system that shot fuel into the sump prior to shutdown so the oil would be thinned for the next cold start. It's long gone but the practice of putting fuel into the oil used to be common. These days we have multi-vis oils. That's a much better solution.
 
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I live in a relatively warm climate, but do some pre-heating when the temps are below 40F and more as the temps go lower. My solution for a quick pre-heat is the sump heater plus a blow drier (on low heat/low airflow) through each of the cooling air intakes. I generally see a 20-40 rise in oil temp and a 50 degree rise in CHT's in 20 minutes or so. If I have longer, I'll either run the sump heater overnight or will start heating with both blow driers and the sump heater, then turn off one or both of the blow driers once the cylinders are up to temp.

I currently have electricity in my hangar. Before that, I kept a generator at the hangar.
 
Stewartb said:
Red Dragons are junk. You won't use one long enough to heat your oil. The cylinders will get warm and will fire easily but that goo in your sump won't circulate.
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I dunno...we used to get oil to operating temp and cylinders quite warm to the touch with one. Maybe you're doing it wrong. ;)
 
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