Will I be able to take to CPL written before I get my PPL?

You can take as many writtens in any order as long as you have a CFI/CFII signoff.
 
“ATP”. I hate that name for a school, as it implies you will actually receive an ATP grade certificate.
 
In theory, yes. But practicality, maybe not.

Part of what you are paying for at any Part 141 is ground school specific to the certificate currently being trained for. I matter what, 141 curriculum makes you be in that class and pass the quizzes and testing. Passing the quizzes and testing gets the endorsements to take the knowledge test.

Knowing that, where is the value to putting horse before cart?

Plus there are many knowledge test items that won’t make much sense to you until you have experienced some flight time to gain the context. Otherwise your overhead lightbulb will be just 40watts instead of 100watts
 
What benefit are to trying to achieve?
 
frfly172 said:
What benefit are to trying to achieve?
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Well it lights a two year fire under his butt for taking the checkride. Of course, it didn't work for me. I retook the instrument written three times before I got around to actually taking the checkride.
 
I'd take it one at a time.

You have a limited amount of time to pass your check ride after you pass a written test (2 years). May not be a factor in your case with your school - not sure. Take the written test for the particular rating right before you start the training for it.

Besides, as you also have to get IFR trained, I would focus on that before the commercial part.
 
It was probably the GADO back then. I remember popping over to the GADO near my house to take my private written. I also was tasked to pick up the safety movies for our flying club meetings down at Martin Marietta since I lived closer to the GADO than anybody else.
 
Just know that you cannot train for multiple certificates (ratings) at the same time. Doesn’t necessarily apply to written exams, but in the case of anticipating another rating before you finish the current one you’re working on - can’t do it.
 
Ryanb said:
Just know that you cannot train for multiple certificates (ratings) at the same time. Doesn’t necessarily apply to written exams, but in the case of anticipating another rating before you finish the current one you’re working on - can’t do it.
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Who says? People do it all the time, notably with the commercial and instruments. Some 141 schools even have a combined program. In fact, nothing prohibits you from counting the same time toward different things provided it fits the description of the requirement for the certificate/rating being sought.
 
flyingron said:
Who says? People do it all the time, notably with the commercial and instruments. Some 141 schools even have a combined program. In fact, nothing prohibits you from counting the same time toward different things provided it fits the description of the requirement for the certificate/rating being sought.
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The FAA says. In the case of the OP, some of the requirements for the commercial certificate, can’t be counted until after he receives his private certificate.

For example, in 61.127(b)(1) there’s 20 hours of flight training in the areas listed, which have to be accomplished after you have earned your private certificate. Night time as an example, is part of the 20 hours, so you can’t count the time prior to earning your private pilot certificate. The time you logged for your private pilot training counts towards your time requirement in 61.129 (a) (1) and (2), but not (3) which is training specifically to meet the commercial training requirements. So, because you may have completed some of the 20 hours during your private training, you can’t count them toward the commercial. Can’t double dip, because that training has to be logged towards the rating the student is pursuing.
 
That's an assertion, but you've not provided any justification for it. Certainly, your blanket statement is wrong as people train in parallel for things legal all the time (different aircraft categories/class, instrument vs. commercial, instructor vs. commercial, etc). I'm not even buying your specific example.
Are you telling me that I need to have explicit instruction in how to preflight an airplane for a commercial if I've already received it for my private? Again, I'm not buying it.

The only requirement the regs places on a applicant for the commercial pilot certificate with regard to a private certificate is that they must have one before applying.
 
flyingron said:
That's an assertion, but you've not provided any justification for it. Certainly, your blanket statement is wrong as people train in parallel for things legal all the time (different aircraft categories/class, instrument vs. commercial, instructor vs. commercial, etc). I'm not even buying your specific example.
Are you telling me that I need to have explicit instruction in how to preflight an airplane for a commercial if I've already received it for my private? Again, I'm not buying it.
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Did you even read the reg? I’m guessing not because it specifically outlines what training requirements are needed for that rating. You would see that ‘preflighting’ isn’t one of them. I had the conversation with a DPE just a few weeks ago.

Again, don’t buy it, it’s no skin off my back. Just don’t be pouty faced if you show up for a check ride with logged experience that doesn’t count.
 
Ryanb said:
Just know that you cannot train for multiple certificates (ratings) at the same time. Doesn’t necessarily apply to written exams, but in the case of anticipating another rating before you finish the current one you’re working on - can’t do it.
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I have known of folks who took their Private and Instrument checkrides on the same day.
 
dmspilot said:
You're a nice guy, but you too frequently post things that are patently false.
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I guess the DPE who I discussed this with has incorrectly discontinued check rides then.
 
Ryanb said:
For example, in 61.127(b)(1) there’s 20 hours of flight training in the areas listed, which have to be accomplished after you have earned your private certificate.
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That's debatable, and even if that were to be true, that is a specific case and it wouldn't be fair to generalize that to "you can't train for multiple ratings at once".

Ryanb said:
I guess the DPE who I discussed this with has incorrectly discontinued check rides then.
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Well, they can be wrong, or the actual narrative of what happened may be distorted.
 
smv said:
I have known of folks who took their Private and Instrument checkrides on the same day.
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I know guys who took their commercial and instructor on the same day. I actually think they took their commercial from the right seat and knocked it all out at once.

Is @Ryanb saying that I can't work on my Commercial SEL while I'm also working on my MEL ATP? I'd like to see that in writing, not just "a DPE told me..."
 
dmspilot said:
Well, they can be wrong, or the actual narrative of what happened may be distorted.
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The example we talked about was...

A primary student flies a TAA aircraft during his/her private pilot training and tries to count that toward commercial training requirements.

He said it did not count.
 
DPEs are not empowered with making any reads on the regulations. Nor do they generally have any training to do so. All they are is higher time instructors with the political connections to get their designation.

You keep throwing out 61.127 like it means something to this argument. All it says is you need this knowledge and instruction. NOWHERE does it say you have to hold a private ceritificate while getting the instruction (any more than you don't need a student pilot certificate to do anything other than solo in the private training).
 
Having taken the Private, then Instrument and then reviewing the Commercial, they build on each other nicely. Taking them in that order makes sense.
 
((...remembers the days when Cap’n Ron, Rotor & Wing, and some other notables would tangle with us over the reg’s and how they fit into the thread starter’s question...))
 
Ryanb said:
A primary student flies a TAA aircraft during his/her private pilot training and tries to count that toward commercial training requirements.
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Flying it isn't sufficient. You have to been trained in it in the specific operations listed in 61.127(b)(1). If the instructor provides that training and logs it appropriately, there's no reason it doesn't count just because the student didn't have his private ticket at the time.
 
Since there is no endorsement for the ATP flight test (other than a type rating), I was required to have my logbook screened to show I had all the required flight experience to take the ATP airplane written test.

Now that you are required to prove you have been to some kind of school as in:
§61.153 Eligibility requirements: General.
(e) After July 31, 2014, for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating or an airline transport pilot certificate obtained concurrently with an airplane type rating, receive a graduation certificate from an authorized training provider certifying completion of the airline transport pilot certification training program specified in §61.156 before applying for the knowledge test required by paragraph (g) of this section;

and

(g) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas of §61.155(c) of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought;


Yeah, I know... This has not much to do with the OP, but I had a free minute or two...
 
Christ.... I’m so happy I got all these so called *ratings* well before POA existed. If not, I may still be working on my Private
 
Ryanb said:
Thanks for proving my point. Come back and play anytime! :)
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Huh? Your problem is that nothing says that that training has to be done with a private certificate. You've not said one thing that supports your assertion.
 
Ryanb said:
The example we talked about was...

A primary student flies a TAA aircraft during his/her private pilot training and tries to count that toward commercial training requirements.

He said it did not count.
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Interesting...
Let's say one student trains in his own SR22 and another trains in his Bonanner.

During the student pilot training ALL the SR22 owners time during PPL will all be TAA (HP irrelevant).

The Bonanner's student time is even more interesting in that he not only had 10hrs Complex (probably 60...80) but also required the Complex endorsement just to solo! Once again the HP endorsement is not relevant to the discussion.

Actually, if you go the route of Complex for CPL is the endorsement even required or just the 10hrs? If not the student getting the Complex has already exceeded the training requirements. But obviously during the time your DPE indicates not counting.

The Complex in this example seems as it would count rather easily.

I guess the other obvious one then would be if a PPL student pilot did a 250nm solo cross country that met the CPL requirements.
 
Reading the regs nothing seems to indicate the experience requirements are tied to a time frame of license/rating training.

Actually it seems as if a student pilot could perhaps take the PPL and CPL on the same day (in that order of course). He/she would be a 250hr+ student pilot :) I think they would have a Commercial 50nm restriction afterwards without IR.
 
But ... back to reality. :). Get your ppl. Fly x country and let your training solidify. Get your IFR. An earlier post for me was very informative. By getting the IFR you’ll be in a much better spot to get the commercial. The real battle is the IFR.
 
Ryanb said:
Thanks for proving my point. Come back and play anytime! :)
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Your point was absolutely not proven.

Ryanb said:
I guess the DPE who I discussed this with has incorrectly discontinued check rides then.
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https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

Ryanb said:
Instrument isn’t included in 61.129.
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https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/special-pleading

This is what you claimed and have proven to be incorrect.

Ryanb said:
Just know that you cannot train for multiple certificates (ratings) at the same time.
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That's what you need to prove or admit you were incorrect.
 
Of course you can train for multiple certificates or ratings at the same time. There may be a couple of particular things you can't do, especially related to the Private, but the general statement is most definitely not true.

I had a client who bought a multiengine airplane while training for his instrument rating at a flight school in a Cherokee. While we waited until he passed his instrument checkride in the Cherokee to really focus on ME training, we certainly did some training towards his ME rating while he was working on his instrument in the SE.

I've had clients who, during the course of instrument training, have asked to see a commercial maneuver or two, as a little break in the heavy IR work. I certainly logged "chandelles" or whatever in their logbook.

if I was in the middle of, say, adding a glider rating, and wanted to go to one of those weekend seaplane rating courses, there's no problem with that.
 
Don't anyone tell Ryan I was training for my Instrument, Glider, and ASES all at the same time. Sometimes all in the same day. ...but obviously not in the same aircraft. Even though my certificate at one point said I had Private Privileges for "Airplane Single Engine Land and Sea Glider" (the comma was real hard to see). :eek:
 
smv said:
Don't anyone tell Ryan I was training for my Instrument, Glider, and ASES all at the same time. Sometimes all in the same day. ...but obviously not in the same aircraft. Even though my certificate at one point said I had Private Privileges for "Airplane Single Engine Land and Sea Glider" (the comma was real hard to see). :eek:
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I would really like to fly in one of those seaplane gliders, though...
 
RussR said:
I would really like to fly in one of those seaplane gliders, though...
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You have not lived until you get towed aloft by a cigarette boat. :p
 
Directly addressing the OP question, yes you can do both the PPL and COMM at the same time, but your COMM grade is likely to suffer on the COM, and is a permanent record.

I took Commercial ground school while training for PPL simply because it was available.

Before I completed the course, my CFI signed me off for the PPL written test, I passed easily, and took my PPL check ride.

I completed the COMM course, passed, and received the paper to take the FAA written test.

A few years later, I signed up for both COMM and Instrument training, took both ground tests the same day, and passed both, then a few days later, took the two check rides on consecutive days, and passed both.

So, obviously, I studied for the COMM written test while studying for the PPL written.
I studied for the COMM written test and Instrument written test at the same time.
I studied for the COMM and Instrument flight tests at the same time.
 
Ryanb said:
I guess the DPE who I discussed this with has incorrectly discontinued check rides then.
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Wouldn't have been the first time and won't be the last time a DPE screwed up. Nobody's infallible.
 
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