Will a Covid 19 vaccine be mandated

Status
Not open for further replies.
I have no doubt that it will be mandated... at least in some States.
 
I believe it will be in schools in most states, and in many businesses.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
Probably but the lawsuits will make a lot of lawyers rich. It will be great to see the what plane should I buy threads from all the pilot lawyers.
 
tspear said:
I believe it will be in schools in most states, and in many businesses.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Businesses have no right to force someone to ingest something into their body. If a business were to fire me for that it's time to seek council.
 
Not sure how a discussion about a mandate that would come from a political body could possibly avoid becoming political. Good luck with that.
 
Someone feel free to explain what purpose a mandate would have. If you think the vaccine will work, then you get it and you are in no danger from those that don't get the vaccine.
 
Salty said:
Someone feel free to explain what purpose a mandate would have. If you think the vaccine will work, then you get it and you are in no danger from those that don't get the vaccine.
Click to expand...

Can't touch the first part, but I believe that "no danger" would be more accurately described as "less danger".... not sure all that many vaccines are 100% effective.
 
Not wanting a vaccine is not a protected class. An employer in almost all states is free to fire you if you don't get vaccinated.
 
Said all I wanted or needed to say in the other thread.

IBTL
 
I doubt the Federal government will require it, as far as I know they don't mandate vaccines to things like measles and mumps. I think once the vaccines are out you might have to get your kid vaccinated if you want them to go to school, and you might need one to show up for work. I have no doubt my employer will require it, and I've no compunction about doing so. Coronavirus can be a really bad deal, I'd rather just skip that party. It will be very interesting to see how the new mRNA vaccines hold up in Phase III.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Businesses have no right to force someone to ingest something into their body. If a business were to fire me for that it's time to seek council.
Click to expand...
Many business will require it as per terms of employment. And yes, you could be fired if you do not comply. This is done in many industries with flu shots and other vaccines.

'Tim
 
Salty said:
Someone feel free to explain what purpose a mandate would have. If you think the vaccine will work, then you get it and you are in no danger from those that don't get the vaccine.
Click to expand...
I'm not an expert but I believe it has to do with herd immunity. Vaccines only work if most people get them. If a decent chunk of the population (maybe 10%) does not "believe in" or "trust" medically accepted vaccines and chooses not to get it, then it may barely help even if the other 90% actually gets the vaccine. Individually they are not typically a silver bullet.
 
Salty said:
Someone feel free to explain what purpose a mandate would have. If you think the vaccine will work, then you get it and you are in no danger from those that don't get the vaccine.
Click to expand...

The FDA has stated publicly, under emergency use, FDA will approve vaccines which show at least 50% efficacy. Only if one or more show much higher will the bar be raised.
Pure speculation, but one comment I have seen is the FDA has created bands of efficacy. They will only approve vaccines in the highest achieved band.

Tim
 
RingLaserGyroSandwich said:
I'm not an expert but I believe it has to do with herd immunity. Vaccines only work if most people get them. If a decent chunk of the population (maybe 10%) does not "believe in" or "trust" medically accepted vaccines and chooses not to get it, then it may barely help even if the other 90% actually gets the vaccine. Individually they are not typically a silver bullet.
Click to expand...
So, if the vaccine doesn’t protect you, why would it be mandated?

Of course, the answer is, if everyone gets it then it’ll work, but I hope everyone can see that is circular logic.
 
Salty said:
Not sure how a discussion about a mandate that would come from a political body could possibly avoid becoming political. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...
I just said that to make the moderators feel better. I actually don’t care.
 
tspear said:
The FDA has stated publicly, under emergency use, FDA will approve vaccines which show at least 50% efficacy. Only if one or more show much higher will the bar be raised.
Tim
Click to expand...

There is precedence for that. The first-ever shingles vaccine was only about 50% effective. It was approved because there wasn't anything else, and 50% is a lot better than nothing. Within 10 years a ~97% effective vaccine hit the market. We're likely to see something similar with Covid...the first vaccine approved will be useful, but better vaccines will follow, and quickly (there wasn't a lot of work being done on shingles during the 10 years between vaccine approvals).
 
I don't believe it can be mandated at the federal level, at least not for the public. Members of the armed forces will certainly be required to get it. I'm sure most states will require it for schools, as they should. Private companies and many other countries will require it. Ultimately I think for adults it will just make life easier to get vaccinated if you want to travel and do a lot of things.

I will definitely get it once I see one that has verifiable data. As stated elsewhere I will not under any circumstances ever take a vaccine approved before November, though there will doubtless be one.
 
Salty said:
So, if the vaccine doesn’t protect you, why would it be mandated?
Click to expand...
Presumably, because it will protect you if just about everyone gets it. It will help somewhat on an individual basis, but not fully protect you if only you get it... unless we get really lucky with the effectiveness of the vaccine.

Of course, the answer is, if everyone gets it then it’ll work, but I hope everyone can see that is circular logic.
Click to expand...
I can't see why it's circular logic. You have to think of the spread of disease from the perspective of the population rather than just the individual. You getting the vaccine does not make my vaccine suddenly behave differently. The objective is to reduce the average risk of the virus jumping from one person to another successfully on any one particular occasion. If you can get the odds of that jump low enough, any sequence of spreading from person to person will be unable to explode exponentially because the overall resistance of the population is still high. Then the few people it spread to are treated, die, or just recover, without having successfully spread the virus further.
 
RingLaserGyroSandwich said:
Presumably, because it will protect you if just about everyone gets it. It will help somewhat on an individual basis, but not fully protect you if only you get it... unless we get really lucky with the effectiveness of the vaccine.

I can't see why it's circular logic. You have to think of the spread of disease from the perspective of the population rather than just the individual. You getting the vaccine does not make my vaccine suddenly behave differently. The objective is to reduce the average risk of the virus jumping from one person to another successfully on any one particular occasion. If you can get the odds of that jump low enough, any sequence of spreading from person to person will be unable to explode exponentially because the overall resistance of the population is still high. Then the few people it spread to are treated, die, or just recover, without having successfully spread the virus further.
Click to expand...
Like I said
 
No, I don't think it will be mandated. First of all, there isn't enough supply. Second, looking at it from a threat standpoint, it doesn't appear to be that deadly except to the elderly. Sure, we don't want to spread it, but with a little common sense and voluntary vaccine adoption, it's controllable.

Common sense...hmmm...ok, maybe it will be mandated.
 
If I've already had it, have the antibodies in my system, what would be the point of getting the vaccine?
 
RingLaserGyroSandwich said:
How is it circular logic? That's the part I'm hung up on.
Click to expand...
Unless everyone gets it, the argument can always be made that it would have worked if everyone got it. The only way to prove it will work is for everyone to get it.

if I say that the only way I can prove myself right is for you to do it my way and see, well....
 
Salty said:
Unless everyone gets it, the argument can always be made that it would have worked if everyone got it. The only way to prove it will work is for everyone to get it.

if I say that the only way I can prove myself right is for you to do it my way and see, well....
Click to expand...
Herd immunity doesn't require 100% participation, and nobody is suggesting that it is. The "circular logic" you refer to involves a logical fallacy. In fact some scientists have suggested that we could achieve herd immunity with as little as 30% participation.
 
misteryan said:
Herd immunity doesn't require 100% participation, and nobody is suggesting that it is. The "circular logic" you refer to involves a logical fallacy. In fact some scientists have suggested that we could achieve herd immunity with as little as 30% participation.
Click to expand...
I agree it's a logical fallacy. That's my point. The people that would push a mandate are going to use that fallacy.
 
Salty said:
I agree it's a logical fallacy. That's my point. The people that would push a mandate are going to use that fallacy.
Click to expand...
I was referring to your argument containing a logical fallacy. You're countering an argument that nobody is making. :)
 
misteryan said:
I was referring to your argument containing a logical fallacy. You're countering an argument that nobody is making. :)
Click to expand...
I'm countering the argument that will be made to support a mandate.
 
Salty said:
Unless everyone gets it, the argument can always be made that it would have worked if everyone got it. The only way to prove it will work is for everyone to get it.

if I say that the only way I can prove myself right is for you to do it my way and see, well....
Click to expand...
Neither the virus nor the vaccine care about who is proved right or wrong. What matters is what will actually happen if say, 80%+ of the population gets the vaccine due to voluntary choice or some type of mandates. I provided my own rudimentary explanation for why it's necessary for a sizeable portion of the population of the population to receive the vaccine in order for it to stop the overall spread of the virus. Your apparent concern that you can't easily prove me wrong without getting the vaccine yourself is besides the point. My goal isn't to force people to get a vaccine they don't want, it's to end the pandemic and stop the high death rates. Fortunately, none of us here are in a position to make any actual decisions that will have an impact on policy.
 
That's true, and I will vote/etc., but the individual impact will be so much less than 1% that it rounds to 0% for conversational purposes, in my opinion.
 
Salty said:
I'm countering the argument that will be made to support a mandate.
Click to expand...
Again, nobody is making the argument you're suggesting. There are exemptions to existing vaccine mandates, to the extent that generally speaking, no more than 90% of the population is vaccinated against any one thing. Which is widely accepted as being more than enough.

Nobody is suggesting that 100% of the population has to be vaccinated.
 
tspear said:
Actually I disagree. Vote, and contact your congressional critters. Both affect policy.

Tim
Click to expand...
You'd be amazed at how much elected officials care about the will of the voter. And I don't say this in jest.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top