Why you should ALWAYS bring a gun camping

dmccormack said:
Where's the BS flag when you need it? :rolleyes2:

You're clearly out of your element here, professor. Sorry, but your reference textbooks were written by folks with visions of Smokey and Bambi.

Ever been stalked by a black bear?

I have -- it's not fun. And there are several others I know who have. Typically it happens in fall, when the leaves start dropping in late September (happens early in the mountains). You can move in any direction, and the bear will follow you.
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Yeah, a bunch of times and and I was unarmed and unafraid. Things were hungry and wanted the food I was carrying. I imagine it could smell the peanut butter. Didn't get any of it, since I tied the stuff up in trees at night.

dmccormack said:
Also, the old saw about a she-bear and her cubs is an old saw because its true. More than one unfortunate has come betwixt with bad results.
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If you can get between a momma bear and her cubs you're either stupid or inattentive.

dmccormack said:
I've also been up in the middle of the night with a bear just a few feet from my tent. The last time it happened he (guessing sex of the beast) decided to high tail it once he caught wind of our dog. Lad was stock still and pointing, and I was very glad I had a compact, readily available firearm.
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One of the ones that tried to get my food came poking around my tent. I banged my pot and yelled. the bear didn't come back that night.

dmccormack said:
Maybe you haven't heard of bears mauling through tents looking for chow? It happens.
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Yeah, to idiots who don't tie their food up in the trees. The one exception is women. The bears can smell the estrogen. Still astoundingly rare.

dmccormack said:
As far as rabid racoons -- they typically move very slowly (which is one sign of disease). I had one come near our dog. I did not shoot as Lad was smart enough to steer wide. But I would be a pretty poor shot if I couldn't dispatch a racoon with a handgun -- don't worry, I can.
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You bet Rambo. But if they're so slow, why can't you just outrun them?

dmccormack said:
As far as snakes -- I did not shoot the last time I walked into a copperhead carpet -- I choose to hop onto a boulder and jump from rock to rock.
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Hmm, so I guess you didn't need a gun, huh?

dmccormack said:
Anyway, you're evidencing the typical bias of educated snobs who presume an air of superiority over anyone who chooses to own and actually carry a firearm is a "rambo wannabe."
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No, I'm pointing out that citing the need to blast snakes to justify your firearm is really dumb. And I may be an educated snob, but I've spent a boatload of time in the bush with snakes, bears, bugs, coons, deer, and all sorts of other critters. Never, carried a gun (what kind of serious backpacker would carry that much weight. Get real) and never missed one.

dmccormack said:
Whatever -- but I'm glad to live in a Right to Carry state and will continue to exercise my Constitutional Right to keep and Bear arms.
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And as I said earlier, if you like your gun and can carry it legally, enjoy. I would die to protect your right to do so. I mean it. Freedom is far more important than security. You can never have the latter, but can loose the former. But don't try and tell me you need your gun to shoot all that dangerous wildlife you've never had to shoot before.
 
SkyHog said:
Proof that being a teacher does not mean you know all.

FWIW, Steingar: I can get out of the middle of the woods with nothing but a compass, a knife, and some matches, living for about 10 days. Can you?

Or did something in your education background teach you survival skills too?
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Nah. I always had this unfortunate habit of carrying maps and, er, food. I guess I'm not a real man.
 
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steingar said:
Nah. I always had this unfortunate habit of carrying maps and, er, food. I guess I'm not a real man.
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You forgot to mention granola.

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My food was dehydrated, and far lighter than a firearm. When you spend real time in the bush weight becomes critical. And I carried granola that I made myself from my own recipe.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
Were you lost? Did you know where you started and where you were going? If no, I'm not sure you can say you "got out of the middle of the woods" - more like "I got dropped off, survived for six days, and went home; all the while I had backup just in case."
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You guys are a piece of work. Nick DID IT! I mean really, come on! :mad:

So then, when we practice engine out procedures is that a meaningless waste of time 'cause, well, the engine wasn't really out, and the plane wasn't really crashing, and we kinda already had an emergency landing spot picked out ahead of time so... :incazzato:

Sheesh!

Way 'ta go Nick! I'll backpack with you anytime. :thumbsup:

[sarcasm on]As for some of these armchair survival experts... not so much, AND I'm not flying with anybody here who hasn't actually crashed an airplane and walked away. After all, how would I know how they would react in a REAL emergency??? [sarcasm off]
 
steingar said:
My food was dehydrated, and far lighter than a firearm. When you spend real time in the bush weight becomes critical. And I carried granola that I made myself from my own recipe.
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Yeah, I know... ammo was my first concern in most of my time "in the bush."

That and noise and light discipline.
 
Sorry, "the bush" means different things to different people. For the backpacking crowd of my youth it meant time away from what we euphemistically call civilization.
 
dmccormack said:
Grizzleys are big enough to take hits from most handguns and keep coming (my MT friends tell me .50 cal is minimum, but since killing a bear is a fed offense, they lug huge cans of pepper spray).

Black bear can be slowed and even stopped with decent defense caliber handgun.
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One shot from a .22LR could stop a grizzly in its tracks. OTOH multiple hits from a 45-70 might not immediately take down a black bear - or a dog for that matter.

Same with a human.

What were we talking about again? Were the Supremes talking about a right to keep and arm bears?
 
steingar said:
Sorry, "the bush" means different things to different people. For the backpacking crowd of my youth it meant time away from what we euphemistically call civilization.
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In my maturity it means going where we need the generator (because air conditioning wont run long on a battery bank). :D
 
Steingar - what I find funny - is that you put all this effort into showing that you probably won't need a gun. At the end of the day though, out in the wild, in some areas, if you do end up needing one the consequences are devastating. It's not hard to carry a gun. It's easy. Why the hell not?

A smart person going out in the wild will carry numerous things to help them survive if things turn for the worse. They probably won't need any of those but they realize there is a chance and if that chance occurs the consequences are devastating.

Carrying a gun is not DANGEROUS to you or others if you know how to properly handle one. They are not heavy. They are not expensive. They are not uncomfortable.

I often get this impression that people think if you have a gun it's a serious risk to you. People that generally think that have very little firearm experience and get nervous if there is a firearm laying on a table in the same room as them. It might just shoot them! Oh no! Yes firearms are dangerous, but so are a lot of things. If you know how to handle them properly you will live a long life without an incident. I received my first gun in kindergarten (.22LR) and I kept it in my room with ammo. I was taught to respect it and I never had any sort of issue.

I've had people close to me that aren't used to guns get very nervous initially when they realize I carry. Once they get used to it - they have always gained to appreciate it - and preferred I carry a gun depending on the circumstance.

Those that know little about guns will often say "What if it just goes off!". I try to explain to them why it can't go off in the holster. If I get a chance I show them the gun disassembled and how it is designed. Once people see what it would take for it to just "go off" for no reason they come to the realization that it isn't going to happen unless a fool pulls the trigger.
 
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I thought we were talking about carrying guns around on an everyday basis. It's morphed into "Man vs Wild" discussion about guns in the wilderness.

I will note, for the record, that Bear doesn't carry a gun.









(OK, I'm willing to bet someone nearby has one. Still....:D)
 
Bear Grylls... egh but Survivorman Les Stroud, he did on one occasion to protect himself from polar bears, other than that he did not.
 
flyersfan31 said:
I thought we were talking about carrying guns around on an everyday basis. It's morphed into "Man vs Wild" discussion about guns in the wilderness.

I will note, for the record, that Bear doesn't carry a gun.









(OK, I'm willing to bet someone nearby has one. Still....:D)
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Yeah -- like Tred Barta hurning Grizzly. He shoots, and his guides -- each holding elephant guns, push him down.
 
jesse said:
Steingar - what I find funny - is that you put all this effort into showing that you probably won't need a gun. At the end of the day though, out in the wild, in some areas, if you do end up needing one the consequences are devastating. It's not hard to carry a gun. It's easy. Why the hell not?

A smart person going out in the wild will carry numerous things to help them survive if things turn for the worse. They probably won't need any of those but they realize there is a chance and if that chance occurs the consequences are devastating.

Carrying a gun is not DANGEROUS to you or others if you know how to properly handle one. They are not heavy. They are not expensive. They are not uncomfortable.

I often get this impression that people think if you have a gun it's a serious risk to you. People that generally think that have very little firearm experience and get nervous if there is a firearm laying on a table in the same room as them. It might just shoot them! Oh no! Yes firearms are dangerous, but so are a lot of things. If you know how to handle them properly you will live a long life without an incident. I received my first gun in kindergarten (.22LR) and I kept it in my room with ammo. I was taught to respect it and I never had any sort of issue.

I've had people close to me that aren't used to guns get very nervous initially when they realize I carry. Once they get used to it - they have always gained to appreciate it - and preferred I carry a gun depending on the circumstance.

Those that know little about guns will often say "What if it just goes off!". I try to explain to them why it can't go off in the holster. If I get a chance I show them the gun disassembled and how it is designed. Once people see what it would take for it to just "go off" for no reason they come to the realization that it isn't going to happen unless a fool pulls the trigger.
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First, if you want to carry one, be my guest. I think I've said that about three times now. Why won't I? First, I don't like guns. My dislike might be as irrational as your like, but its mine and I'll act on it.

Lets say for the sake of argument that I loved guns as much as you guys. You might have to check me for gills, but what the heck. When I set up to go camping, my chief concern was always weight. When I'm going to be schleping everything I'm going to eat and use for a week or two, weight becomes critical. My tent was the lightest one I could buy (I bought one with stakes rather than a dome to save a half pound). Same for my sleeping bag and thermarest. I have never carried an axe to cut firewood, instead I have a lightweight camp stove. I carried one change of clothing (in case the stuff I had on got destroyed) and yes, I usually came out fragrant. Even my boots were selected for light weight. I took a minimum of food, all dehydrated and usually not enough. Like it or not, an extra pound carried over the course of a week over mountains can wind up making your hiking experience fairly miserable.

Even a small gun weighs a pound and a half, and I imagine a full clip of ammo weighs a half pound. That's two pounds of weight for something I am almost certainly not going to need. The mountains of the lower 48 are devoid of Grizzley bears, and they're the only ones that are dangerous to the savvy backpacker. So when someone tells me they need to be armed to go out in the woods it flips my BS meter all the way on. You might like a gun to go in the woods, and be my guest. You'd make a lousy backpacker, but I doubt any of us are spending weeks at a time in the wilderness. I am certainly not in my decrepitude.
 
jesse said:
I often get this impression that people think if you have a gun it's a serious risk to you. People that generally think that have very little firearm experience and get nervous if there is a firearm laying on a table in the same room as them. It might just shoot them! Oh no! Yes firearms are dangerous, but so are a lot of things. If you know how to handle them properly you will live a long life without an incident. I received my first gun in kindergarten (.22LR) and I kept it in my room with ammo. I was taught to respect it and I never had any sort of issue.
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I am a novice firearms enthusiast and enjoy shooting frequently. Like you said, firearms are dangerous and everyone should keep that in mind, even people who do not like them. As for people who get nervous if there is one laying on a table in the same room....that would include me. I do not like visiting someone's home who has unsecured guns. I've got friends who do that, and friends that keep loaded handguns on the bedside table - and that makes me nervous. Every gun should be secured all the time.

There are people who will never like guns, and I respect that. I also do everything I can to display my maturity with guns and my enthusiasm for them as well. It's amazing how many people you bring around with a positive attitude.
 
flyersfan31 said:
I thought we were talking about carrying guns around on an everyday basis. It's morphed into "Man vs Wild" discussion about guns in the wilderness.
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In other words, it's "morphed" back to the original thread topic!

Personally, I'm a live-and-let-live kind of guy on this subject.
 
Gerhardt said:
I am a novice firearms enthusiast and enjoy shooting frequently. Like you said, firearms are dangerous and everyone should keep that in mind, even people who do not like them. As for people who get nervous if there is one laying on a table in the same room....that would include me. I do not like visiting someone's home who has unsecured guns. I've got friends who do that, and friends that keep loaded handguns on the bedside table - and that makes me nervous. Every gun should be secured all the time.

There are people who will never like guns, and I respect that. I also do everything I can to display my maturity with guns and my enthusiasm for them as well. It's amazing how many people you bring around with a positive attitude.
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There is a balance between security an availibility. I have no kids in my home - he'll I don't think another person has been in it for a month. My defensive pistol is kept loaded, chambered, and holstered. That is a safe state.

You are confusing what I said by a gun on a table. I'm not suggesting you leave loaded guns all over your house like they are tv remotes.
 
dmccormack said:
Sorry, but grizzly's are found in at least 4 of the lower 48.

Black bear can be dangerous as well. You just choose to ignore this simple fact.
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Yeah, brown and black bears are very dangerous to the stupid. Not such a big worry for the rest of us. I got the range of grizzlies from this, which shows them only in very limited ranges in the lower 48, and not in the East. It is just a thing on the internet, so if its wrong you have my apologies.

Sorry, I've spent weeks at a time in the woods and interacted with bears. A little knowledge and common sense goes a long way. They're shy, gentle, retiring animals that would rather have nothing to do whatsoever with humans. They're also tremendously strong and will happily eat the same things we do, and thus have to be treated with caution. The presence of bears in your favorite recreational area does not in any way necessitate firearms.
 
steingar said:
Yeah, brown and black bears are very dangerous to the stupid. Not such a big worry for the rest of us. I got the range of grizzlies from this, which shows them only in very limited ranges in the lower 48, and not in the East. It is just a thing on the internet, so if its wrong you have my apologies.

Sorry, I've spent weeks at a time in the woods and interacted with bears. A little knowledge and common sense goes a long way. They're shy, gentle, retiring animals that would rather have nothing to do whatsoever with humans. They're also tremendously strong and will happily eat the same things we do, and thus have to be treated with caution. The presence of bears in your favorite recreational area does not in any way necessitate firearms.
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Your definition of "gentle" is different than mine.
 
Palmpilot said:
Personally, I'm a live-and-let-live kind of guy on this subject.
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Me too, oh wait that would be if I was a guy....

For me it has nothing to do with being scared, of guns, criminals or wild animals. I grew up in a house with unsecured guns. There was an arsenal in my basement and a gun under the bed until about 10 years ago. I just think it would be a PITA to carry and not worth the chance of getting it stolen or losing it. However I'm not passionate about it either way and I find it amusing to read discussions like this.
 
mantakos said:
8000 people die every year from skin cancer. I'm sure many of you live in areas of the country where skin cancer is a higher mortality risk than homicide. Do you keep a bottle of sunscreen in an ankle holster? How come nobody ever posts a thread titled "Why you should ALWAYS bring sunscreen camping"?
-harry
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While there isn't really a point in getting in on this "discussion" (because it isn't one), your sunscreen comment reminds me of

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_SfXyzMxJc

Fast forward 30 seconds. :D
 
sba55 said:
While there isn't really a point in getting in on this "discussion" (because it isn't one), your sunscreen comment reminds me of

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_SfXyzMxJc

Fast forward 30 seconds. :D
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You know something, I just backed my pickup truck into my maid's car a half hour ago. I didn't do a whole lot of damage, but an oil line broke somewhere and it dumped a bunch of oil on my brand new driveway. Now I'm waiting for a wrecker to come pick up her car and I can't go anywhere because it is sitting smack dab in the middle of my drive. I was getting all upset about the whole thing, and your little youtube helped me get everything back into perspective. I think everything is going to work out OK. Thanks.
 
According to wikipedia, there were 9 fatal attacks by bears in the lower 48 from 2000-2009, a little under 1 fatality per year.

The fatality rate from skin cancer is approximately 8000 times that.

So if you're headed out into the great outdoors, and you're not sure what to put in your holster, sunscreen would certainly seem to be the better choice.
-harry
 
dmccormack said:
Grizzleys are big enough to take hits from most handguns and keep coming (my MT friends tell me .50 cal is minimum, but since killing a bear is a fed offense, they lug huge cans of pepper spray).

Black bear can be slowed and even stopped with decent defense caliber handgun.
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Back when I was at Kodiak the standard procedure whenever you were going off the base area on foot was to check out a "bear gun" - a bolt action rifle in a large caliber (don't remember which) and always go in pairs. The normal issue M-16 was not good for bear. The nice thing about going in pairs was picking a partner who was a slower runner than you.

Never got charged, but did see a bunch of BIG bears when I was in Alaska.
 
mantakos said:
According to wikipedia, there were 9 fatal attacks by bears in the lower 48 from 2000-2009, a little under 1 fatality per year.

The fatality rate from skin cancer is approximately 8000 times that.

So if you're headed out into the great outdoors, and you're not sure what to put in your holster, sunscreen would certainly seem to be the better choice.
-harry
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I know that you are trying to come at this from a "logical" point of view. Sunscreen is good. I carried a gun most of my adult life, and carrying sun screen is not as fun as carrying a gun. There is something about packing heat that is just plain fun. I think that is why is is so hard sometimes for people who do carry to explain it to people who don't carry. You can't just say that there is something exciting, and dangerous about carrying a gun. I don't mean dangerous that someone might have an accident with it, but just having all that power hanging on your hip. That is why a person will buy a .50 cal Desert Eagle and then figure out how to hide it under a t-shirt. People who don't carry just don't understand. Once I bought a .400 Winchester Magnum. I brought it home and showed it to my wife. Sharing things with your wife is always a mistake. I always tell people never let your wife know how many guns or cameras you have. OK, but anyway my wife said, "what are you going to do with that." My response was, "you could kill a polar bear with this thing." My wife responded with the logic that we live in Iowa. That is true, but I just plain liked holding all that power in my hands. It was "dangerous." A lot of people like that feeling. A lot of people don't. The thing is, there is always a chance that you can defend your life with your gun. No matter how small that chance is, it is always there, and that chance is what allows a person to justify packing one. It is all a mind game, but then a lot of things we do are mind games. Anyone can justify almost anything, if they spin it in their mind. Frankly, I packed a pistol to Des Moines last night for the first time in probably three years, just because of this thread. I didn't need it, but thank goodness I had it.
 
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Maxmosbey said:
It is all a mind game, but then a lot of things we do are mind games. Anyone can justify almost anything, if they spin it in their mind.
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I think it's a bit like how people feel about carrying a cellphone. Nowadays people think you are nuts if you don't have a cellphone. What about emergencies??!! What if you break down on the road??!! I never carried a cellphone until about 10 years ago and I can remember in my younger days disappearing for days without a cellphone or a gun. But I'll have to admit that now I feel naked without my cellphone.... :redface:
 
Everskyward said:
I think it's a bit like how people feel about carrying a cellphone. Nowadays people think you are nuts if you don't have a cellphone. What about emergencies??!! What if you break down on the road??!! I never carried a cellphone until about 10 years ago and I can remember in my younger days disappearing for days without a cellphone or a gun. But I'll have to admit that now I feel naked without my cellphone.... :redface:
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I remember when the cell phone was the ultimate "see how important I am" status symbol. And hey, then (and now) people said that they were dangerous and put the folks who carried them at risk (radiation) and others too (distraction).
 
I was describing camping in the lower 48, where the most dangerous animals you're likely to encounter are your fellow men. Bears come in a distant second, and the ones down here are usually not altogether dangerous if teated properly.

Alaska has grizzlies, and that's an entirely different story.

And like Max said (and I said before, three times) enjoy your guns. Carry or wear them wherever laws allow. Just don't justify their presence by the rational argument that you're fighting off snakes, or bears, or the forces of evil for that matter. The irrational reason that you like guns and like having one on you are more than sufficient.
 
TMetzinger said:
I remember when the cell phone was the ultimate "see how important I am" status symbol. And hey, then (and now) people said that they were dangerous and put the folks who carried them at risk (radiation) and others too (distraction).
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New law in Iowa, no texting while driving. How in the heck are they going to enforce that one? It is going to be a hard one to prove in court. "I wasn't texting your honor, I was getting driving directions."
 
steingar said:
I was describing camping in the lower 48, where the most dangerous animals you're likely to encounter are your fellow men. Bears come in a distant second, and the ones down here are usually not altogether dangerous if teated properly.

Alaska has grizzlies, and that's an entirely different story.

And like Max said (and I said before, three times) enjoy your guns. Carry or wear them wherever laws allow. Just don't justify their presence by the rational argument that you're fighting off snakes, or bears, or the forces of evil for that matter. The irrational reason that you like guns and like having one on you are more than sufficient.
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You were fine until you essentially said that "liking guns is irrational".
 
mantakos said:
According to wikipedia, there were 9 fatal attacks by bears in the lower 48 from 2000-2009, a little under 1 fatality per year.

The fatality rate from skin cancer is approximately 8000 times that.

So if you're headed out into the great outdoors, and you're not sure what to put in your holster, sunscreen would certainly seem to be the better choice.
-harry
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How many of those approximately 8000 skin cancer fatalities were caused
by exposure to the sun in the great outdoors? If we are to compare
fatality rates, we need to exclude other factors.
 
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