Why you should ALWAYS bring a gun camping

dmccormack said:
Even a pellet gun will "hurt."

The real question is -- will it hurt enough for you to stop doing what you were doing?
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As far as those in the picture, I'm willing to bet the answer is "yes."
 
dmccormack said:
None, hunh?

Oh -- sorry, this is the "Guess what the teacher's thinking" game. B)
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So far my favorite stupid excuse was one of yours, that you need a gun while hiking to kill snakes. You owe me a new keyboard for that one. Of the three venomous snakes in your area, only the northern copperhead gets large enough to kill a grown man, they're scarce and fast as lightning. If you actually saw one far enough away to shoot it you could likely step out of the way. I guess you could use your piece to get revenge after the serpent inflicted its mortal wound upon you, although revenge on a dumb animal is pretty stupid. Can be satisfying though.

Sorry, everything I've read in this thread is an idiotic rationalization. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with you owning and carrying your firearms. I would die to defend your right to do so, though I would prefer it if you did not do so in my domicile. If it makes you feel safer, fine. It is irrational, but so are many of the things we do every day. If you like your gun and like to have it on you, fine. I am really sorry you have to worry about local ordinances, it sucks that you could commit a crime just by crossing an artificial boundary.

Where my problem comes in is the idiotic rationalizations (to kill a snake while hiking, :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:). Facts have been thrown your way in this and other threads to show that on the balance, you really aren't all that much safer with your weapon. BUT WHO CARES? If you like it, fine. Enjoy. Just don't try justifying it rationally. Next you guys will be rationally trying to justify this whole flying thing. That ought to get hilarious fast.

That is what the teacher thinks. And in this one instance, the teacher is utterly correct.
 
steingar said:
... I have no problem with you owning and carrying your firearms. I would die to defend your right to do so, though I would prefer it if you did not do so in my domicile. If it makes you feel safer, fine. It is irrational, but so are many of the things we do every day. If you like your gun and like to have it on you, fine. I am really sorry you have to worry about local ordinances, it sucks that you could commit a crime just by crossing an artificial boundary.
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My sentiments also. I don't own one, don't want one, or feel I need one. But, the right to "keep and bear arms" stikes me as a very important freedom. It says "You have a right to defend yourself from scum" (and brother, there is a lot of scum out there).

steingar said:
...BUT WHO CARES? If you like it, fine. Enjoy. Just don't try justifying it rationally.
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That is fine except, there are people out there putting forth justifications for taking away the right. To defend against them a little justification helps. "Because I like them!" doesn't play well in the court of public opinion or the chambers of the SCOTUS.

steingar said:
Next you guys will be rationally trying to justify this whole flying thing. That ought to get hilarious fast.
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Ok, now that's just crazy talk. :goofy:
 
Dart said:
That is fine except, there are people out there putting forth justifications for taking away the right. To defend against them a little justification helps. "Because I like them!" doesn't play well in the court of public opinion or the chambers of the SCOTUS.
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It certainly works better than some of the contrived explanations offered here.
 
steingar said:
I mind guns a lot less than the utterly stupid and vapid arguments used to justify them. There are lots of really good reasons to own and carry guns, though I haven't read any in this thread.
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Wait, what? No "You need to move to a better area?"

I think you're starting to see what I mean!
 
steingar said:
Next you guys will be rationally trying to justify this whole flying thing. That ought to get hilarious fast.
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

In a way it's the same thing. Imagine how your friends who don't care for flying feel when you proselytize about it. I'll tell people I'm a pilot if they ask, but I don't go any further unless they express curiosity.
 
steingar said:
So far my favorite stupid excuse was one of yours, that you need a gun while hiking to kill snakes. You owe me a new keyboard for that one. Of the three venomous snakes in your area, only the northern copperhead gets large enough to kill a grown man, they're scarce and fast as lightning. If you actually saw one far enough away to shoot it you could likely step out of the way. I guess you could use your piece to get revenge after the serpent inflicted its mortal wound upon you, although revenge on a dumb animal is pretty stupid. Can be satisfying though.

Sorry, everything I've read in this thread is an idiotic rationalization. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with you owning and carrying your firearms. I would die to defend your right to do so, though I would prefer it if you did not do so in my domicile. If it makes you feel safer, fine. It is irrational, but so are many of the things we do every day. If you like your gun and like to have it on you, fine. I am really sorry you have to worry about local ordinances, it sucks that you could commit a crime just by crossing an artificial boundary.

Where my problem comes in is the idiotic rationalizations (to kill a snake while hiking, :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:). Facts have been thrown your way in this and other threads to show that on the balance, you really aren't all that much safer with your weapon. BUT WHO CARES? If you like it, fine. Enjoy. Just don't try justifying it rationally. Next you guys will be rationally trying to justify this whole flying thing. That ought to get hilarious fast.

That is what the teacher thinks. And in this one instance, the teacher is utterly correct.
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I do not let a snake pass without death. If he's close enough to be seen, he dies, because I'm scared to death of snakes.

While I don't carry a gun so that I can kill snakes, I would shoot one in a heartbeat if I happened to have my gun on me when I saw it.

Damn serpents of the devil!
 
SkyHog said:
I do not let a snake pass without death. If he's close enough to be seen, he dies, because I'm scared to death of snakes.

While I don't carry a gun so that I can kill snakes, I would shoot one in a heartbeat if I happened to have my gun on me when I saw it.

Damn serpents of the devil!
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Now that's just weird. Snakes are good at keeping the ground squirrel population down so that my septic field doesn't get dug up as much. Coyotes are good for that too.
 
My neighbors want me to shoot the rabbits and groundhogs on my property, claiming that they're vicious creatures who will attack their kids. If I shoot the groundhog, it will be for one reason: So my dog stops jumping at the front door and window. Man does that ever get him excited.

In the mean time, I'll leave 'em be.
 
Snakes are vertebrates, just like us. The eat pesky rodents and mostly try and keep out of our way. They're far more frightened of us, and with good reason. A lot more people kill snakes than the other way around.
 
steingar said:
So far my favorite stupid excuse was one of yours, that you need a gun while hiking to kill snakes. You owe me a new keyboard for that one. Of the three venomous snakes in your area, only the northern copperhead gets large enough to kill a grown man, they're scarce and fast as lightning. If you actually saw one far enough away to shoot it you could likely step out of the way. I guess you could use your piece to get revenge after the serpent inflicted its mortal wound upon you, although revenge on a dumb animal is pretty stupid. Can be satisfying though.

Sorry, everything I've read in this thread is an idiotic rationalization. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with you owning and carrying your firearms. I would die to defend your right to do so, though I would prefer it if you did not do so in my domicile. If it makes you feel safer, fine. It is irrational, but so are many of the things we do every day. If you like your gun and like to have it on you, fine. I am really sorry you have to worry about local ordinances, it sucks that you could commit a crime just by crossing an artificial boundary.

Where my problem comes in is the idiotic rationalizations (to kill a snake while hiking, :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:). Facts have been thrown your way in this and other threads to show that on the balance, you really aren't all that much safer with your weapon. BUT WHO CARES? If you like it, fine. Enjoy. Just don't try justifying it rationally. Next you guys will be rationally trying to justify this whole flying thing. That ought to get hilarious fast.

That is what the teacher thinks. And in this one instance, the teacher is utterly correct.
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Sorry, but I don't have your snake charming skills. I fish, and have walked into NESTS of copperheads -- several dozen in the area of a small room.

I've also encountered rabid racoons, she-bears, and feral dogs.

FWIW, black bears in our neck of the woods get big -- we've had a 733 pounder harvested about 12 miles from my house.

Whatever, professor -- this is one outdoorsman who is happy to carry.
 
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As for the BB gun references, my dad bought my brother and me a couple when we were five. Now that I'm a father I can't imagine getting my kids one. They are absolutely not toys, and I've seen WAY TOO MANY kids shot in the eyes. If you're old enough to shoot a BB gun, you're old enough for a .22, so that's what I started my son with.

As for CCW, I'm with a few other folks here in that I just don't think it's needed 99.9% of the time. But have no problem with others carrying and I do carry on occasion, for ex. walking at night, camping, etc. I honestly never think I'll need it; it's really just peace of mind. Someone made the comparison to an ELT and I think that hit the nail on the head.

As for some of the bulk some guys around here carry, obviously trying to let others know what's behind the belt, I just scratch my head. More than anything, they're making themselves a target from some lowlife. But also, for self-defense in an unlikely situation to begin with a smaller handgun makes more sense. I like the LCP and Kel Tec. I use my larger handguns only for target practice.
 
steingar said:
Snakes are vertebrates, just like us. The eat pesky rodents and mostly try and keep out of our way. They're far more frightened of us, and with good reason. A lot more people kill snakes than the other way around.
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I love snakes and had several in my youth (native species only, caught for awhile then released). Florida is distinctive in having native representatives of three of the four families of venomous snakes (no hydrophiidae, aka sea snakes). India, for all its famed Cobras has only one family - elapsids.

I certainly don't approve of the "kill all snakes" mentality. I have a neighbor that moved in a few years back. Within days he killed a lovely mature eastern coach whip we (my other neighbors) had enjoyed for years. As a young snake, he had crawled up my fireplace ash pit to warm himself in the house. I understand the new neighbor's reaction. None the less, it was heart breaking to see it happen.

In the wild I leave venomous snakes alone but, no venomous snakes are allowed near the house. I've nailed two hefty corals in my garden.
 
Gerhardt said:
As for the BB gun references, my dad bought my brother and me a couple when we were five. Now that I'm a father I can't imagine getting my kids one. They are absolutely not toys, and I've seen WAY TOO MANY kids shot in the eyes. If you're old enough to shoot a BB gun, you're old enough for a .22, so that's what I started my son with.

As for CCW, I'm with a few other folks here in that I just don't think it's needed 99.9% of the time. But have no problem with others carrying and I do carry on occasion, for ex. walking at night, camping, etc. I honestly never think I'll need it; it's really just peace of mind. Someone made the comparison to an ELT and I think that hit the nail on the head.

As for some of the bulk some guys around here carry, obviously trying to let others know what's behind the belt, I just scratch my head. More than anything, they're making themselves a target from some lowlife. But also, for self-defense in an unlikely situation to begin with a smaller handgun makes more sense. I like the LCP and Kel Tec. I use my larger handguns only for target practice.
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Each of our children was exposed to a .22 by age 4. They learned a gun was NOT a toy. The girls were both good shots and knew what to do if they were over a freind's house and someone got hands on an unsecured firearm.

My son starting shooting at 3 1/2, and eventually become an expert archer, shotgun, and later rifle shot. he just earned a slot to the US Army's Sniper School, and consistently shoots expert and has become a range resource for his commanders.

Gun safety is the result of firearm discipline.
 
dmccormack said:
Sorry, but I don't have your snake charming skills. I fish, and have walked into NESTS of copperheads -- several dozen in the area of a small room.

I've also encountered rabid racoons, she-bears, and feral dogs.

Whatever, professor -- this is one outdoorsman who is happy to carry.
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If the snakes were truly alarmed and any danger they would have bitten you before you could pull your almighty piece there, Rambo. If there were a bunch they were probably mating, and far more interested in that activity than you. I know I would be.

I doubt many people could hit a raccoon in that big a hurry, they're tiny things. Bears in your part of the country can usually be scared off with a bit of yelling or other noise, they're docile creatures. Even moms with cubs are unlikely to charge if you use a bit of common sense. Grizzlies are anther story altogether, but they don't occur in the East.

Now feral dogs, that's one where a piece could really come in handy. Dogs hunt in packs and can be really effective. Blast a couple and they'll get the idea to leave you along, not much else will do. Indeed, that's the first honest to gosh non-rationalization gun excuse I've read in this or any other gun thread. Congratulations, you get an A.
 
dmccormack said:
...

Gun safety is the result of firearm discipline.
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It certainly helps, but at the end of the day you're still dealing with kids. You can take an ordinarily responsible kid, put them in the company of friends, and really dumb things happen.

Am I saying don't expose your kids to firearms? Not at all - if you ask me, it's a very important thing to do, not the least of which involves what you've mentioned in your post.

I'm just saying don't fool yourselves into thinking that your kids are infallible.
 
steingar said:
If the snakes were truly alarmed and any danger they would have bitten you before you could pull your almighty piece there, Rambo. If there were a bunch they were probably mating, and far more interested in that activity than you. I know I would be.

I doubt many people could hit a raccoon in that big a hurry, they're tiny things. Bears in your part of the country can usually be scared off with a bit of yelling or other noise, they're docile creatures. Even moms with cubs are unlikely to charge if you use a bit of common sense. Grizzlies are anther story altogether, but they don't occur in the East.

Now feral dogs, that's one where a piece could really come in handy. Dogs hunt in packs and can be really effective. Blast a couple and they'll get the idea to leave you along, not much else will do. Indeed, that's the first honest to gosh non-rationalization gun excuse I've read in this or any other gun thread. Congratulations, you get an A.
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Where's the BS flag when you need it? :rolleyes2:

You're clearly out of your element here, professor. Sorry, but your reference textbooks were written by folks with visions of Smokey and Bambi.

Ever been stalked by a black bear?

I have -- it's not fun. And there are several others I know who have. Typically it happens in fall, when the leaves start dropping in late September (happens early in the mountains). You can move in any direction, and the bear will follow you.

Also, the old saw about a she-bear and her cubs is an old saw because its true. More than one unfortunate has come betwixt with bad results.

I've also been up in the middle of the night with a bear just a few feet from my tent. The last time it happened he (guessing sex of the beast) decided to high tail it once he caught wind of our dog. Lad was stock still and pointing, and I was very glad I had a compact, readily available firearm.

Maybe you haven't heard of bears mauling through tents looking for chow? It happens.

As far as rabid racoons -- they typically move very slowly (which is one sign of disease). I had one come near our dog. I did not shoot as Lad was smart enough to steer wide. But I would be a pretty poor shot if I couldn't dispatch a racoon with a handgun -- don't worry, I can.

As far as snakes -- I did not shoot the last time I walked into a copperhead carpet -- I choose to hop onto a boulder and jump from rock to rock.

Anyway, you're evidencing the typical bias of educated snobs who presume an air of superiority over anyone who chooses to own and actually carry a firearm is a "rambo wannabe."

Whatever -- but I'm glad to live in a Right to Carry state and will continue to exercise my Constitutional Right to keep and Bear arms.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
It certainly helps, but at the end of the day you're still dealing with kids. You can take an ordinarily responsible kid, put them in the company of friends, and really dumb things happen.

Am I saying don't expose your kids to firearms? Not at all - if you ask me, it's a very important thing to do, not the least of which involves what you've mentioned in your post.

I'm just saying don't fool yourselves into thinking that your kids are infallible.
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Rule 1 of parenting: Trust, but verify.
 
dmccormack said:
...
I've also been up in the middle of the night with a bear just a few feet from my tent. The last time it happened he (guessing sex of the beast) decided to high tail it once he caught wind of our dog. Lad was stock still and pointing, and I was very glad I had a compact, readily available firearm.

Maybe you haven't heard of bears mauling through tents looking for chow? It happens.

\]
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Wait, I could be wrong but I thought smaller guns like pistols only **** off bears? I thought it takes a serious rifle to do much damage.

And as Mari said, this is pretty much a SZ topic and getting rather dangerous.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Wait, I could be wrong but I thought smaller guns like pistols only **** off bears? I thought it takes a serious rifle to do much damage.

And as Mari said, this is pretty much a SZ topic and getting rather dangerous.
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Grizzleys are big enough to take hits from most handguns and keep coming (my MT friends tell me .50 cal is minimum, but since killing a bear is a fed offense, they lug huge cans of pepper spray).

Black bear can be slowed and even stopped with decent defense caliber handgun.
 
dmccormack said:
Where's the BS flag when you need it? :rolleyes2:

You're clearly out of your element here, professor. Sorry, but your reference textbooks were written by folks with visions of Smokey and Bambi.

Ever been stalked by a black bear?

I have -- it's not fun. And there are several others I know who have. Typically it happens in fall, when the leaves start dropping in late September (happens early in the mountains). You can move in any direction, and the bear will follow you.

Also, the old saw about a she-bear and her cubs is an old saw because its true. More than one unfortunate has come betwixt with bad results.

I've also been up in the middle of the night with a bear just a few feet from my tent. The last time it happened he (guessing sex of the beast) decided to high tail it once he caught wind of our dog. Lad was stock still and pointing, and I was very glad I had a compact, readily available firearm.

Maybe you haven't heard of bears mauling through tents looking for chow? It happens.

As far as rabid racoons -- they typically move very slowly (which is one sign of disease). I had one come near our dog. I did not shoot as Lad was smart enough to steer wide. But I would be a pretty poor shot if I couldn't dispatch a racoon with a handgun -- don't worry, I can.

As far as snakes -- I did not shoot the last time I walked into a copperhead carpet -- I choose to hop onto a boulder and jump from rock to rock.

Anyway, you're evidencing the typical bias of educated snobs who presume an air of superiority over anyone who chooses to own and actually carry a firearm is a "rambo wannabe."

Whatever -- but I'm glad to live in a Right to Carry state and will continue to exercise my Constitutional Right to keep and Bear arms.
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Proof that being a teacher does not mean you know all.

FWIW, Steingar: I can get out of the middle of the woods with nothing but a compass, a knife, and some matches, living for about 10 days. Can you?

Or did something in your education background teach you survival skills too?
 
SkyHog said:
...

FWIW, Steingar: I can get out of the middle of the woods with nothing but a compass, a knife, and some matches, living for about 10 days. Can you?

....
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Have you ever tried?
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
I'm just saying don't fool yourselves into thinking that your kids are infallible.
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No kidding. I was an example of that as a kid. I learned to shoot when I was young too and I knew where my dad kept one loaded. I would open the drawer and look at it. I even showed it to a couple friends. Although I didn't go any further than that I know some other kids would have.
 
tdager said:
Come on harry you know better than that, you cannot say "all" in any context, period. Every group is made up of individuals with differing viewpoints, habits, etc.

The problem is you want to use the "all" factor and then say it fails when one does not fall into that, which we both know is disingenuous.
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but wasn't the whole "Jim Fixx" thing doing PRECISELY that???
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
Have you ever tried?
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Yes, although I had backup in my Uncle, who knew where we were at all times, but kept his mouth shut aside from conversation. Northern New Hampshire (summer, not winter, I'm not stupid), with the clothes on my back, a box of strike anywhere matches, a knife and a compass.

While rough, it was pretty fun, actually, aside from the ant stings I got one morning.

edit: Oh, and we were only out for 6 days, but I had enough matches and gumption to go for 4 more if I had to.
 
dmccormack said:
Each of our children was exposed to a .22 by age 4. They learned a gun was NOT a toy. The girls were both good shots and knew what to do if they were over a freind's house and someone got hands on an unsecured firearm.

My son starting shooting at 3 1/2, and eventually become an expert archer, shotgun, and later rifle shot. he just earned a slot to the US Army's Sniper School, and consistently shoots expert and has become a range resource for his commanders.

Gun safety is the result of firearm discipline.
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I took both my kids out to the range when they were young. I even bought a .22 pistol for them to shoot. My thought was that if they got their curiosity out of their system, they would not be tempted to pick up a pistol and play with it. I also wanted them to be familiar with guns so that they could be safe with them. They are both grown now, and neither one has any interest what so ever in guns, and never have. My son's grandfather gave him a .22 rifle, and a 12 ga shotgun. You would have thought that his grandfather had given him a bannana peel. He has never touched them. They are in the basement with my guns. I have asked him several times if he wants them, and he always says that he does not. My daughter will go out shooting sometimes, but she can take them or leave them. She is an athlete and she would rather throw clay pigeons than shoot them. She does not have a gun of her own. I told her one time that if she ever wanted one she could have one of mine, but she has never wanted one of them. I one time talked to her about self defense, and she said that she keeps a baseball bat in her room.
 
SkyHog said:
Yes, although I had backup in my Uncle, who knew where we were at all times, but kept his mouth shut aside from conversation. Northern New Hampshire (summer, not winter, I'm not stupid), with the clothes on my back, a box of strike anywhere matches, a knife and a compass.

While rough, it was pretty fun, actually, aside from the ant stings I got one morning.

edit: Oh, and we were only out for 6 days, but I had enough matches and gumption to go for 4 more if I had to.
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"You could drop this guy off at the Arctic Circle wearing a pair of bikini underwear, without his toothbrush, and tomorrow afternoon he's going to show up at your pool side with a million dollar smile and fist full of pesos."

Were you lost? Did you know where you started and where you were going? If no, I'm not sure you can say you "got out of the middle of the woods" - more like "I got dropped off, survived for six days, and went home; all the while I had backup just in case."
 
SkyHog said:
Yes, although I had backup in my Uncle, who knew where we were at all times, but kept his mouth shut aside from conversation. Northern New Hampshire (summer, not winter, I'm not stupid), with the clothes on my back, a box of strike anywhere matches, a knife and a compass.

While rough, it was pretty fun, actually, aside from the ant stings I got one morning.

edit: Oh, and we were only out for 6 days, but I had enough matches and gumption to go for 4 more if I had to.
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Which proves that one can survive outdoors without a firearm...so you pretty much reinforced Steingar's point. :wink2:
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
"You could drop this guy off at the Arctic Circle wearing a pair of bikini underwear, without his toothbrush, and tomorrow afternoon he's going to show up at your pool side with a million dollar smile and fist full of pesos."

Were you lost? Did you know where you started and where you were going? If no, I'm not sure you can say you "got out of the middle of the woods" - more like "I got dropped off, survived for six days, and went home; all the while I had backup just in case."
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We simulated me being lost. I had no idea where we were, except that I knew we were in northern New Hampshire.

But yes, if I got in over my head, my Uncle could have saved it. That wasn't necessary though. I learned a lot that week.
 
SkyHog said:
We simulated me being lost. I had no idea where we were, except that I knew we were in northern New Hampshire.

But yes, if I got in over my head, my Uncle could have saved it. That wasn't necessary though. I learned a lot that week.
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Fair enough. Note the Forrest Taft reference. :)
 
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