Why is the WingX web site so horrible?

[JimNtexas]

The WingX web site is no longer horrible!

I saw Dr. Goldstein give a presentation about WingX at the AOPA summit and thought it looked pretty impressive.

My FF subscription times out in a couple of weeks and I was planning to try the WX 30 day trial.

I was just looking at http://www.hiltonsoftware.com/, and frankly, I'm shocked at out of date this site is.

It looks like a dead site of a company that is or is about to be out of business.

There is a picture on the home page of an iPad mini, but when I went to the 'download' tab there was no Appstore link. Instead there are instructions on downloading versions for Pocket PC, Blackberry, and Motorola Q.

There is a link to download a 'draft manual' for a 2008 version.

The 'purchase' tab is only for Android and Blackberry. The Android versions says:

Note: WingX for Android currently does not include Sectionals, IFR Enroute charts, or the Moving Map. We're working on adding these features.

The 'supported devices' are list in this order:
Window Mobile 5/6, Palm, iPhone and Pocket PC. No mention of iPads.

The press release section has current information in it, and the main page has that picture of an iPad.

Frankly this web site is so horrible that makes me question if WingX is a viable company.

I got burned badly by Anywhere Map, I don't want that to happen again.

Anyone know why the WingX web site is so out of date?

Edited to add: As of 3/5/2014 the WingX web site is no longer horrible.

 

[DWMCLEOD]

I followed your link. Top right of frontpage has a button that says "Download on the App Store".
That should work....

 

[CT4ME]

'Mystery to me... Luckily the website does not represent the quality of the product. The website looks like something done by a high-school student, ten years ago. Classic case of "working in the business, versus working on the business".

 

[jesse]

The reason is simple: Just because you're a good programmer doesn't mean you're good at web design or marketing.

 

[AggieMike88]

Jesse describes it well. Hilton is definitely putting his time into development and improvement versus the site.

Jim, if you want to see a decent overview of the features, go to Hilton's YouTube Channel and view the 3 intro videos. They are a few versions old, but cover the main features.

Then if you have questions on how to accomplish the desired tasks, post them as a new thread and we will try to help.

 

[JimNtexas]

I really don't think I should have to go to YouTube to get basic information about the product.

I have a useless $1700 Anywhere map system. I'd hate to buy a non-Stratus ADS-B box and have WX go under, leaving me with another useless box.

This web site has pretty much scared me away from WX.

 

[dans2992]

The reason is simple: Just because you're a good programmer doesn't mean you're good at web design or marketing.

Or user interface.

To me, ForeFlight vs WingX is like Apple Computers vs Linux. Sure, WingX has more features, but that interface makes my eyes bleed. You _cant_ figure a lot out without the manual. ForeFlight, you just pick up and use.

Also, I think Quality Control and overall product integration is better with Foreflight.

That being said, I think ForeFlight needs to add some things, such as audible terrain alerts and some kind of VNAV planning. These should be very simple additions from a programming perspective, but honestly, I think they're going to do SV first.

Is WingX a one-man show, or does be have a team? I get the impression ForeFlight has a larger, high quality team.

 

[dans2992]

I really don't think I should have to go to YouTube to get basic information about the product.

I have a useless $1700 Anywhere map system. I'd hate to buy a non-Stratus ADS-B box and have WX go under, leaving me with another useless box.

This web site has pretty much scared me away from WX.

Get ForeFlight - they're not going anywhere. My impression is that WingX has a lot in common with anywheremap...

 

[AggieMike88]

There's that stubborn streak we've come to know and love about ya.

It's actually the best way to see the program in action. And the links to the videos are on the www.hiltonsoftware.com home page. Look in the right column, below the Aviation Consumer badge.

The videos to me where the best way to learn how to get the most about the program.

I actually use both FF and WX, as there are parts that each does better than the other.

But I'll refrain from egging on another FF v WX v Ford v Chevy v Baptist v Dodge v Rap v Classic Rock discussion. We have had plenty of those already and the varying opinions have be overly well covered already.

 

[Jim Logajan]

I really don't think I should have to go to YouTube to get basic information about the product.

Open the Apple App Store application on your iPad. Search for WingX. There should be a way to install it for a 30 day free trial period. The app store blurb gives plenty of basic information about the product even if you don't download.

I have a useless $1700 Anywhere map system. I'd hate to buy a non-Stratus ADS-B box and have WX go under, leaving me with another useless box.

This web site has pretty much scared me away from WX.

I'm not sure how you could lose more than a single year's subscription of $100 if you did invest in the product. (The product continues to work after the subscription period ends - the subscription keeps the maps, AF/D, and other databases up to date.)

I believe all of the ADS-B boxes that WingX supports also have alternate support apps of their own, so you aren't tethered to Hilton when you buy them. On the other hand, are there non-Foreflight apps that work with the Stratus?

 

[dans2992]

I really don't think I should have to go to YouTube to get basic information about the product.

I have a useless $1700 Anywhere map system. I'd hate to buy a non-Stratus ADS-B box and have WX go under, leaving me with another useless box.

This web site has pretty much scared me away from WX.

Lots of vendors use YouTube to distribute video content from their site. Most actually "embed" the videos in the site, however.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[AggieMike88]

On the other hand, are there non-Foreflight apps that work with the Stratus?

Just one that I'm aware of. "STRATUS" is the name of it and when tied to the Stratus II brick, will show an AHRS on your screen.

 

[MickYoumans]

I don't think WingX is going anywhere anytime soon. Hilton has a pretty solid base of users. I started out with a three month ForeFlight subscription on an iPad 1. About a month before my FF subscription ran out I loaded the trial version of WingX and tested them head to head while flying. I let the FF subscription lapse and have been running WingX ever since. Hilton has led the way with so many features like split screen, terrain database, synthetic vision and the list goes on. FF is finally catching up in some of these areas, but that is the situation, they seem to play catch up where Hilton leads in features. I personally could care less about the WingX website as long as the program on my iPad delivers, which it does.

I highly recommend you download the 30 day free trial program and put it through the paces and make the decision for yourself. Learn the program on the ground but put it through the paces in the air. FF worked great flying my La-Z-Boy in the den but was harder to read and navigate around while bouncing around in the air. As others have mentioned above, watch the YouTube videos. The videos will help you get the most out of the program and expose you to many of the neat features in the program like the simulator.
Best of luck with wichever program you go with. They are both great programs and you can't go wrong with either. It is really a matter of which features you like and which one works best for your flying needs. Just don't discount trying out a great program just because you don't like the website.

 

[Henning]

I really don't think I should have to go to YouTube to get basic information about the product.

I have a useless $1700 Anywhere map system. I'd hate to buy a non-Stratus ADS-B box and have WX go under, leaving me with another useless box.

This web site has pretty much scared me away from WX.

Well, be scared away then, but it is the superior product in the field, the only one offering an SVT page. Go to the Superstition Crash thread, those guys were running Foreflight, had they been running WingX, they would have seen the mountain to avoid it.

 

[JimNtexas]

Aviation history is littered with technically great but dead products which were killed by inept business management.

I hope WX doesn't join their ranks.

 

[Henning]

Aviation history is littered with technically great but dead products which were killed by inept business management.

I hope WX doesn't join their ranks.

Yep, you want something with a good business model, buy the Garmin 796, you get a real screen that way as well. If you want to spend a couple hundred bucks a year to run something on your iPad you take a risk of using a product that isn't guaranteed to make enough money to guarantee viability. So far it's been up for a few years now and the feature package has been continuously upgraded to accept more input from more devices. It's a small shop, wouldn't surprise me if it was a one man show since every time I called with a question, the man himself picked up the phone.

 

[Jim_R]

Aviation history is littered with technically great but dead products which were killed by inept business management.

I hope WX doesn't join their ranks.

And the computer / tech industry has plenty of examples of individuals or small teams who had a great idea and great talent and made billions from it.

And then, there are the hordes of efforts that fall in-between those extremes.

The lemonade stand might have a hand-lettered sign and there might not be any shiny tables to sit down at, but the lemonade may still be delicious. You have to try it to find out, though.

 

[JimNtexas]

...
The lemonade stand might have a hand-lettered sign and there might not be any shiny tables to sit down at, but the lemonade may still be delicious. You have to try it to find out, though.

Even Lemonade stands update their signs every five or ten years.

 

[creweite]

Reviews of Wing X on the Google Play store really pan the Android version of this app, no sectionals and no support at a premium price.

 

[CT4ME]

Everyone knows the Android version of WingX is not the "Full" version... Just like the Foreflight Android app is not the same as their IOS app. If you own the iPad version of WingX, they will activate the Android app for free.

 

[MickYoumans]

Even Lemonade stands update their signs every five or ten years.

I had not looked at the website in a long time so I went back and checked it out this morning. The home page, which is the dedicated iPad page, looks like Hilton has been updating it along. Once you get off of the home page it does look pretty sad. It is not a slick modern looking site but the iPad home page does have what you need there with links to a lot of good information.

As I said in my previous post, what I care about is what the program on my iPad does. I love what it does so I'm very happy and I'm not hung up over the website. We have a WingX thread over on the AOPA forum and Hilton is a regular contributer to the thread. He seems to always be looking for ways to improve the program and has always been a step ahead of FF since I have been in the iPad EFB market. It just seems to me they are devoting their time to making the WingX program better instead of the website. With that said, putting a little more effort into the website might pay bigger dividends in attracting more users. I also get the impression that Hilton is more into form, function and features than into slick looks. Aesthetics is important to people as well too. I think a lot of people are easily swayed by aesthitics when they are not as knowledgable about whats really running under the hood.

I really like the fact that we have WingX, FF and Garmin Pilot in direct competition with each other. They all drive each other to put out top quality products. I think all three are great products and you can't go wrong with any of them. It really boils down to which of the three you enjoy using the most and which one has the feature set you find to be the most useful to you and your flying needs. You just need to evaluate the 30 day free trial period in the air after learning the program on the ground. Using a program in a bouncing plane in poor lighting conditions is very different than your den.

 

[creweite]

The same appears to be true for Garmin Pilot, lacking features that are in the Ios version. Apple mania? Not to change the thread, but I can update data for my GTN650 (at an absurd price) but not updates to the operating system, have to go to the local vendor for a firmware update. Now that irritates me!

 

[dans2992]

And the computer / tech industry has plenty of examples of individuals or small teams who had a great idea and great talent and made billions from it.



And then, there are the hordes of efforts that fall in-between those extremes.



The lemonade stand might have a hand-lettered sign and there might not be any shiny tables to sit down at, but the lemonade may still be delicious. You have to try it to find out, though.

I agree. I tried it out and found that it wasn't for me in its current form. Way more lockup and being booted out of the app than ForeFlight. I _want_ to like it though, because it has features I want!

ForeFlight does a great job with PR, their FaceBook page, user meetings, podcasts, etc and it appears from some photos they may have a team of about 20-30. (Not positive on that though)

I know WingX is popular, so I figure Hilton is probably making lots of cash because clearly it's not being spent on a PR agency, a good website, a large staff, or anything else. Maybe he just wants to make as much cash as he can and retire. That's fine, more power to him.

He's probably a great coder, but I just don't see much being spent on the "business". He should not be answering the majority of tech support calls, and heck he should probably be working on hiring PR talent, a web design firm, more coders, and someone who knows how to design a pretty interface. He'll bring more value to his business that way and would really give FF a run for their money.

But honestly, I really know none of these things for sure, but that's just what I would do if I were him.

 

[Jim_R]

I'm pretty sure every one of us would run the business a different way if we were in charge. Maybe some of us would do a better job.

We all make choices in life. Dude's running a business, and is presumably making the choices he thinks are in the best interests of his business based on his resources and constraints.

We as consumers get to choose whether his decisions are good enough that we want to patronize his business or not.

It's called capitalism. Kinda nifty how it works.

 

[jesse]

I'm pretty sure every one of us would run the business a different way if we were in charge. Maybe some of us would do a better job.

We all make choices in life. Dude's running a business, and is presumably making the choices he thinks are in the best interests of his business based on his resources and constraints.

We as consumers get to choose whether his decisions are good enough that we want to patronize his business or not.

It's called capitalism. Kinda nifty how it works.

And we all get to discuss it here however we feel free....

 

[dans2992]

Sorry, I've been stuck in bed sick for days and all I have to do is type on my iPhone.

I think the OPs question was that between the two which one is most likely to stay around. I'd vote that FF seems to have more longevity possibilities than WingX, that's all.

I mean, heck Hilton could die tomorrow, and I think that would be a much bigger hit for WingX than if the CEO of FF died.

 

[MickYoumans]

Sorry, I've been stuck in bed sick for days and all I have to do is type on my iPhone.

I think the OPs question was that between the two which one is most likely to stay around. I'd vote that FF seems to have more longevity possibilities than WingX, that's all.

I mean, heck Hilton could die tomorrow, and I think that would be a much bigger hit for WingX than if the CEO of FF died.

As Jim pointed out in post #10 "I'm not sure how you could lose more than a single year's subscription of $100 if you did invest in the product. (The product continues to work after the subscription period ends - the subscription keeps the maps, AF/D, and other databases up to date.)"

Sorry to hear you are under the weather. Hope you get to feeling better soon.

 

[frfly172]

Have used the 30 day free trial on wing x. Decided to go with the ff and stratus combo. Wing x has come a long way and should be around for awhile. Also more choices of supporting add ons. I'm sticking with FF.

 

[patrick wentworth]

The first time you need to get a quick sense of your height and the range infrontof you in the haze you will come to appreciate WX .. A lot of little nice to have items in the program. That being said I subscribe to both .. Just pretend they are all just one big program
Their combined technology is frighteningly good!!!

 

[docmirror]

I got burned badly by Anywhere Map, I don't want that to happen again.

Can you expand on this? I was going to get a Samsung Tab and download the Anywhere Map product from Control Vision. I've never used it, but stopped by their booth at Osh and it seemed pretty good.

 

[AdamZ]

As Jim pointed out in post #10 "I'm not sure how you could lose more than a single year's subscription of $100 if you did invest in the product. (The product continues to work after the subscription period ends - the subscription keeps the maps, AF/D, and other databases up to date.)"

Sorry to hear you are under the weather. Hope you get to feeling better soon.

I took Jim's comments to mean that if he gets WingX and purchases a non stratus ADS B Box doesn't like Wing X he can't then go use the Non stratus box with FF

 

[Jim Logajan]

I took Jim's comments to mean that if he gets WingX and purchases a non stratus ADS B Box doesn't like Wing X he can't then go use the Non stratus box with FF

Well I suppose that is one way to interpret what I wrote. It also appears to work the other way though: if he purchases a Stratus ADS-B box he can't go use it with any other tablet app.

Is it true that the only ADS-B receiver that FF supports is Stratus, and the only app that Stratus can be used with is FF?

I ask because according to Dual, they say FF declined to add support for their ADS-B receiver, and Hilton reports that Appareo declined to have Stratus integrated with WingX.

In terms of post-purchase options, it looks like there is a larger used market (by app vendor count) if one needs to divest oneself of other vendor's ADS-B equipment - should the need arise. For example, here is a list of ADS-B (and GPS) receivers that WingX supports:

http://hiltonsoftware.com/HardwareCompatibility.pdf?x=1

Here is a list of ADS-B receivers and the apps they can be used with:

http://ipadpilotnews.com/2013/04/portable-ads-b-receiver-buyers-guide/

Were I in the OP's position, I'd take a hard look at the Dual XPGS170 and then sample as many of the apps that claim support for it.

 

[Challenged]

Can you expand on this? I was going to get a Samsung Tab and download the Anywhere Map product from Control Vision. I've never used it, but stopped by their booth at Osh and it seemed pretty good.

Anywhere Map was my favorite app due to the the customization it allows you, but they seem to have abandoned support for it. For an entertaining read, go and check out the Anywhere Map forums, particularly the ones dealing with the iPad/Android app.

 

[docmirror]

Anywhere Map was my favorite app due to the the customization it allows you, but they seem to have abandoned support for it. For an entertaining read, go and check out the Anywhere Map forums, particularly the ones dealing with the iPad/Android app.

That's only for people who have registered a copy of the software, and I haven't. So - I'm outa luck.

 

[JimNtexas]

Can you expand on this? I was going to get a Samsung Tab and download the Anywhere Map product from Control Vision. I've never used it, but stopped by their booth at Osh and it seemed pretty good.

I bought a full Anywhere Map hardware system with XM, not just the software.

Anywhere Map was OK as a basic moving map navigation device except when the app crashed, which was fairly often.

I bought mine at Oshkosh because it seemed pretty good in the booth. It crashed as I was taxiing for departure, when I really needed it. The XM weather system only worked about a third of the time.

They had virtually no customer support, and the company refused to even consider giving a refund. In my opinion Anywhere Map sold a product that was not suitable for the purpose for which it was intended.

$1700 down the drain.

I have no reason to think that WingX is as bad a product as I found Anywhere Map to be, but I'd hate to spend a grand on an ads-b box and then see the company fade way.

Let me emphasize that I have nothing against the WingX product or Hilton software.

I'm just sharing my honest perception of their web site, and asking if there is any logical reason why most of it has not been updated since 2008.

 

[docmirror]

I bought a full Anywhere Map hardware system with XM, not just the software.

Anywhere Map was OK as a basic moving map navigation device except when the app crashed, which was fairly often.

I bought mine at Oshkosh because it seemed pretty good in the booth. It crashed as I was taxiing for departure, when I really needed it. The XM weather system only worked about a third of the time.

They had virtually no customer support, and the company refused to even consider giving a refund. In my opinion Anywhere Map sold a product that was not suitable for the purpose for which it was intended.

$1700 down the drain.

Yikes, that's pretty bad. I guess I'll keep looking. Although, the download is only $49 for the Samsung Tab, and the Tab 7 can be bought for under $150. Still, if it doesn't work, I'm amazed that Control Vision didn't step up and either make it work, or refund.

 

[Walt]

random,
I have been a Anywhere user for many years. I started with an IPAQ and now using a Samsung Q1. I still use the Pro system and it meets my needs but I would not recommend Anywhere to anyone. Jay (owner) is not able to keep up. Since he does not charge a subscription he makes all his profit on the front end. This business plan only works as long as you as you have a flow of new customers. At this point he has an ungodly number of systems to support and few new customers to fund his operation.

 

[Marauder]

Or user interface.

To me, ForeFlight vs WingX is like Apple Computers vs Linux. Sure, WingX has more features, but that interface makes my eyes bleed. You _cant_ figure a lot out without the manual. ForeFlight, you just pick up and use.

Also, I think Quality Control and overall product integration is better with Foreflight.

That being said, I think ForeFlight needs to add some things, such as audible terrain alerts and some kind of VNAV planning. These should be very simple additions from a programming perspective, but honestly, I think they're going to do SV first.

Is WingX a one-man show, or does be have a team? I get the impression ForeFlight has a larger, high quality team.

Man -- I thought I was the only one with eyes bleeding from trying WingX! The GUI is not friendly and certainly not thought out for how many would use it.

I have both ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot running on my iPads and both are much easier to understand out of the box.

 

[Jim Logajan]

I'm just sharing my honest perception of their web site, and asking if there is any logical reason why most of it has not been updated since 2008.

Obviously you'd have to ask them - but, as best I can tell, if a web page concerns WingX on Windows Mobile devices, then it hasn't been updated since that time. They've obviously stopped developing for that platform. If a web page concerns WingX on Apple iOS devices, then it is more likely to be kept current.

Also, while I'm speculating, I would guess that as the product became more popular and competition demanded more resources to keep up with the Joneses, resources devoted to web marketing were seen as redundant or reached a point of diminishing returns. Word of mouth and free trials are likely their best marketing tools.

I suspect you are not the usual target market simply because you have been using FF, and you may find WingX not to your liking because you'll have to learn a different interface. Since I have only used WingX and learned to use it it comfortably in VFR flying, I find it really nice and handy and have no difficulty with it. If I had started with FF I suspect I'd have been comfortable with that product too.

Lastly, while poking around their web site I just noticed that the About Us web page says that Jack Pelton is on the company's advisory board, but I'm not sure if there is any particular advantage in that.

 

[RJM62]

....

Let me emphasize that I have nothing against the WingX product or Hilton software.

I'm just sharing my honest perception of their web site, and asking if there is any logical reason why most of it has not been updated since 2008.

Probably because he's a application programmer, not a Web developer; and he'd rather work on his application programming than his Web site. Or maybe he doesn't know Web design. Not that Web design is rocket surgery, but it is a different skill set, so it's possible that he knows one and not the other.

Besides, the site isn't all that horrible. This is a horrible Web site. This is another horrible Web site. Hilton's site is... well, boxy and old-fashioned, and a bit boring, but not horrible. The information's there if you look for it. My worst criticism is that he used JS menus, which I try to avoid whenever I can. (The reason being that when I was a computer tech, I saw what could happen to JS menus on infected or misbehaving computers.)

As for the YouTube videos not being embedded, with that many videos, I wouldn't have embedded them either. I might have built separate pages for each function and embedded a single video on each of those pages, mainly for SEO purposes; but he chose to just link to the videos and put the explanatory information in the video comments. Either way, from the visitor's perspective, the information is there; so I don't really understand why his choice bothers you.

Still, I agree that the site could use some freshening. In fact, if I had any interest at all in such software, I might try to negotiate a barter arrangement. But alas, in my case, getting away from computers for a while is one of the reasons I fly.

-Rich