Why don't GA aircraft have winglets?

Morgan3820

Morgan3820

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If they are good enough for a 787, why not my Piper? Just curious.
 
Too slow for them to make much of a difference on anything less than a jet.

That said, my cirrus has quasi winglets.
IMG_6088.JPG
 
There are winglets in GA, just not as common. Winglets are a fairly common mod for Barons for example.

They provide some performance improvement, but didn't seem like enough to make it worth it for me.

For most GA folks, you just don't fly enough per year to see a return on investment in fuel savings. It's a very different story in the airline world.
 
My Jabiru has winglets. According the the factory they got them to lower stall speed down to the Light Sport.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It's a very different story in the airline world.
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And even in the airlines they'd just go with a longer wing on new aircraft if they weren't constrained by gate sizes. At least that was true until they started messing with tip vortices...

That said, when I put new wing tips on the 'kota to get landing lights out there the mould included upturned tips. They changed the float in ground affect and maybe a little better climb rate.
 
Clark1961 said:
And even in the airlines they'd just go with a longer wing on new aircraft if they weren't constrained by gate sizes. At least that was true until they started messing with tip vortices...

That said, when I put new wing tips on the 'kota to get landing lights out there the mould included upturned tips. They changed the float in ground affect and maybe a little better climb rate.
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The 777 has/had a folding wingtip option to extend the span 20-25ft, but nobody ever ordered it. We'll see how it works out on the 777x
 
In the grand scheme, winglets are pretty new, most pipers you see on the ramp were built decades before they became common. And as far as new pipers, well, compared to a 787, the speed isn't enough to matter.
 
Some do.

On the PC12 I've flown ones with the small /45 ones and also the early model yuuuge ones, didn't notice much of a difference between the two.
 
Winglets are kind of like T tails were in the '70s. Pretty soon they will be sprouting everywhere in piston GA just because they look cool and modern...
 
There are many STC wing tips you can install that emulate winglets in a small form. Even the newer Cessnas have "drooping" wing tips.
Anything that reduces wingtip vortices helps with fuel economy.
 
aviation-partners-winglets-early-spiroid.jpg


Neat. Spiroid winglets
 
Winglets that actually do something add a lot of weight. Take the Falcon 900 for example, its nearly 250 additional pounds and around a 1000 man hours in sheet metal work.
 
Saw them on a Bonanza once. I have picture somewhere. Personally I thought they looked kind of silly.
 
bnt83 said:
Winglets that actually do something add a lot of weight. Take the Falcon 900 for example, its nearly 250 additional pounds and around a 1000 man hours in sheet metal work.
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That, and though they can reduce induced drag enough to provide a net drag reduction in some flight regimes, they also add profile and skin drag which adds up to a net drag increase in other flight regimes.


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Bill Watson said:
That, and though they can reduce induced drag enough to provide a net drag reduction in some flight regimes, they also add profile and skin drag which adds up to a net drag increase in other flight regimes.


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Designing effective winglets is not an easy task. I would hazard a guess that most of the small GA winglets are more of a cosmetic and marketing feature than a functional one.

See -- we can make our plane look like a big jet, too!
 
IMG_0713.JPG I got 'em too! Of course they fulfill more than just a winglet role.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Designing effective winglets is not an easy task. I would hazard a guess that most of the small GA winglets are more of a cosmetic and marketing feature than a functional one.

See -- we can make our plane look like a big jet, too!
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The M2 added swooplets to the CJ1 and they called them bling-lets. Cessna claimed they were appearance only but the aircraft beats the book in performance. I'm guessing if they claimed a performance increase,they would have to do extensive testing for the type certificate.
 
I've flown various Cessna models with and without drooped tips, and have never been able to discern any difference in handling or performance.

Here's what Cessna's former Manager of Flight Test & Aerodynamics, Bill Thompson, said about those drooped wingtips:

"We found only a marginal benefit, even with very large drooped wing tips. To be effective, they had to extend about two feet below the wing, and this, of course, was unacceptable in blocked visibility and general appearance. As we abandoned the effort, some of our sales pilots suggested the adoption of very slightly drooped wing tips as a styling feature. [...] Although there were no measurable aerodynamic benefits, it didn't take long for sales people across the country to dream up some wild claims, and drooped wing tips have become a part of our aviation culture."
 
NoHeat said:
In general, is icing a problem for winglets?

I don't see any boots or heated leading edge. Not just the ones in this photo, but any of them. And they protrude out there.
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They are considered critical surfaces on most aircraft and they will be heated.
 
When I was working at the FBO we had a few based Falcon 50/900/2000s. The tailplane (according to some of the mechanics) was deemed by Dassault as not critical for icing and do not have heat of any kind. One of the pilots said he landed with inches of ice back there and it handled just fine. He didn't notice until after landing.

Example:
4078867120_60712f7ac5.jpg


Wings have it, tail does not. I think it is true across most Falcons.
 
TRocket said:
In the grand scheme, winglets are pretty new, most pipers you see on the ramp were built decades before they became common. And as far as new pipers, well, compared to a 787, the speed isn't enough to matter.
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The new Piper M600 has them. Might do something, since with the same engine and similar cruise power settings it is as fast or faster than the Piper Meridian/M500 even though it weighs 1000 lbs more.

2017-10-15_20-35-50.jpg
 
overdrive148 said:
When I was working at the FBO we had a few based Falcon 50/900/2000s. The tailplane (according to some of the mechanics) was deemed by Dassault as not critical for icing and do not have heat of any kind. One of the pilots said he landed with inches of ice back there and it handled just fine. He didn't notice until after landing.

Example:
Wings have it, tail does not. I think it is true across most Falcons.
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I flew the CRJ for several years and all variants (200/700/900) do not have the horizontal stab heated. When I first went through training on it I couldn’t believe it, but in all the time I flew the jet never saw ice build up on it after a flight.

Also for the person who asked the CRJ winglets are not heated, they were too thin to accumulate much ice, and if they had ice building up on them it was a good indicator there was ice building elsewhere on the airplane. Some planes have heated winglets others don’t, depends how it handles it and how it’s certified

Back to the original subject, winglets just look cool. I want them on my 182, and even though it would serve no purpose I want my cowl on landing to slide back like a jet engine reverse thrust
 
Rockymountain said:
The new Piper M600 has them. Might do something, since with the same engine and similar cruise power settings it is as fast or faster than the Piper Meridian/M500 even though it weighs 1000 lbs more.

View attachment 57144
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Looking at those winglets, I can’t see them as being anything more than cosmetic.

Other changes would appear to be driving the efficiency increase. From Piper’s website:

The new clean-sheet wing is at the heart of the changes to the Piper M600 providing slick aerodynamics that help you go farther, faster without leaving anything or anyone behind.​
 
I think for most light piston aircraft and even light turboprops, winglets don’t really make a significant performance difference. You start seeing the benefits once you put them on jets.
 
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