Why do people buy new aircraft?

hindsight2020 said:
OPEX is not my ceiling, it's the acquisition. Even when you look at something like a Cirrus, the financing costs dwarf its operation costs. Yet people think, fuel bladder replacement or retract gear maintenance is blasphemy and somehow the inflection point that determines whether or not someone can afford to own a 750AMU airplane? Literally, look at the gear endangered species thread, you'd think the children are going hungry because of a gear swing, so let me buy a new SR/TTX to save money? That's some common core math right there..:rolleyes:
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For some, it's not the cost of the fuel bladder or gear refurbishment. It's the scratched trip if you walk into the hangar to a blue puddle or you land with a 'gear unsafe' light.
 
Same reason as a car, Cost wise with the huge depreciation driving it out of the showroom the reasons seems similar.
 
midcap said:
That sure helps. I know for me, it would save me about 30-35% of the price of the acquisition.
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Just got my 2016 returns from the accountant. It came with a note 'that plane we talked about, you should have bought it'. Well, I guess come monday, the check I could have written to Cirrus Finance goes to the treasury instead.
 
weilke said:
Just got my 2016 returns from the accountant. It came with a note 'that plane we talked about, you should have bought it'. Well, I guess come monday, the check I could have written to Cirrus Finance goes to the treasury instead.
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my accountant never tells me these things. :(
 
James331 said:
Don't know any better

Illusion of safety/quality

Tax reasons of some sort
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Hate to agree. For every one of us here debating types and specs, there is a "don't know any better" pilot out there...


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gsengle said:
Hate to agree. For every one of us here debating types and specs, there is a "don't know any better" pilot out there...
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When I talk to people who've bought new airplanes I wouldn't consider any of them "don't know any better." They've researched the options and they have reasons for why they decided to plunk down the chunk of change that most of us could only dream of spending. Sure, some of it is sales and marketing aspects, which is part of the company's job trying to sell airplanes. Technical merits alone don't sell new airplanes and ultimately you have factors that don't apply to us on the used market.

Even if I could afford a new airplane, I wouldn't see myself buying one. But I also enjoy the project aspect, and there aren't new planes that do what I want.
 
I've met 3 Cirrus SR22 pilots that never flew anything but a trainer before choosing Cirrus. Didn't test fly anything else. Hell if I was spending that much money I'd make all the manufacturers take me up just for the fun of it.


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You have to wonder, if the only people who can afford the expense are the most layperson within our demographic, isn't that poor ambassadorship for the entire collective? Kinda like the cops who patrol your streets are the ones who cannot afford to live on them. I find that a grave moral hazard.

I'm not convinced a "#lifestyle" marketing-swayed moneyed dope knows what's the best thing for my avocation. Sure, he's got money to price me out, but I don't owe him any deference. I can still call his choices out as faddish and ineffective to the solvency of the larger flying community. No need for false accusations of sour grapes/class envy.
 
There are thousands of Cirrus owners in the air (over 6,000). The level of experience and expertise range in the same way as the general pilot population flying other types of aircraft new and used. There are both new and used Cirrus owners and now there will be Cirrus jet owners. The mere fact Cirrus is the leader in sales in their markets (by a wide margin) prove they attract knowledgeable and sophisticated aviators who also happen to have the money to buy the best.
 
What's funny is the cost to fully, completely restore an older airframe approaches (within inches) the cost of the new airplanes out there. I know AOPA restored that Debonair a few years ago and spent North of $300k doing so. Not sure if that includes the purchase price or if the plane was donated. But yeah...
 
I'd be interested in exactly how that proves any such thing. Logical fallacy.


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pkuhns said:
What's funny is the cost to fully, completely restore an older airframe approaches (within inches) the cost of the new airplanes out there. I know AOPA restored that Debonair a few years ago and spent North of $300k doing so. Not sure if that includes the purchase price or if the plane was donated. But yeah...
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If it costs $300k to restore a Deb, then they bought the wrong Deb to start with....
 
Fearless Tower said:
If it costs $300k to restore a Deb, then they bought the wrong Deb to start with....
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And that sure doesn't get you to the near million dollar price of some of these airplanes new...


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George Mohr said:
Mx issues and dispatch rate. Oh, and, sexy.
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Actually lots more Mx and hard to trace issues in newer airframes compared to older stuff.

Best dispatch rate plane I've ever flown was a 46' 7AC

My 78' 185 also isn't very complex nor does it have any crazy systems, good dispatch rate.

Post 2000 stuff, lots more electronics and other systems, also those planes tend to have more interior fluff to take down to fix things.
 
James331 said:
Best dispatch rate plane I've ever flown was a 46' 7AC
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The company that bought my courier company had a fleet of old 310's that at the time (1991) were on their 3rd or 4th overhaul. They had check hauling contracts with the various banks here in the Valley. No more check hauling, but last I heard they were still using them to haul freight.
 
gsengle said:
And that sure doesn't get you to the near million dollar price of some of these airplanes new...
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Your persistent fallacy is the use of that million dollar number. If anything is comparable to a 33 series Bo it is a normally aspirated SR22 which retails at 540k. No matter how much money you pour into that Deb, it will never have the same combination of avionics, safety features and comfort of the new plane.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I was just thinking..... my most reliable airplane has been an 84 year old Waco.
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Mine was my first airplane, a well used but mechanically sound 1961 160 hp Cherokee. By a wide margin. Never once let me down away from home, and only cancelled one flight (due to a failed fuel boost pump).
There's something to be said for simple.
 
murphey said:
Not exactly that simple. You need a reason to depreciate the airplane over X years. If used for business, then it's a depreciable asset. Otherwise....no way.

AggieMike - have you considered buying an airplane so you could travel to various car auctions?
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There are situations where deductions are allowed for personal and business use on the same aircraft.

A section 179 deduction allows a one time deduction of up to $500,000 on a new or used aircraft, with a qualifying purchase price limit of $2M. There is also a $50,000 "bonus" depreciation available through 2019.

Consult your tax professional. ;)
 
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GRG55 said:
Mine was my first airplane, a well used but mechanically sound 1961 160 hp Cherokee. By a wide margin. Never once let me down away from home, and only cancelled one flight (due to a failed fuel boost pump).
There's something to be said for simple.
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In thenshop I use there's a ???. that ground looped and trashed 8'ft of the end of the wing - wood spar, cloth, aluminum ribs..Repairs will include splices, siffeners, new cloth, new ribs, etc. Lots of A&P fabrication, etc. There's also a malibu, bo, 172 with 250'hp engine (don't ask) and a mooney. My little cherokee often gets fixed first because it's so simple. Which means the shop gets cash flow sooner.
 
weilke said:
Just got my 2016 returns from the accountant. It came with a note 'that plane we talked about, you should have bought it'. Well, I guess come monday, the check I could have written to Cirrus Finance goes to the treasury instead.
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This right here. Write a large check, or buy a depreciable asset? Looking at the numbers it was a pretty easy decision, even looking 2-3 years down the road.
 
So they can take advantage of the sweet leaseback deal Bob at the FBO told them would pay for their plane and even make a profit.
 
There is a lot that goes into buying a used airplane that many pilots consider daunting. Unless they have a mentor who can show them the ropes of used aircraft acquisition, a new airplane may be more attractive because of the perception of certainty. New Cirruses, for example, come with factory maintenance packages, factory training, a dedicated customer service team, etc. Those are all very attractive things to pilots who are new to general aviation and don't necessarily have someone they can count on to walk them through the rather complicated process of purchasing and maintaining a used aircraft.
 
paflyer said:
So they can take advantage of the sweet leaseback deal Bob at the FBO told them would pay for their plane and even make a profit.
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This sometimes is true. I met a guy once who seemed rather disillusioned with it all and was looking for actual partners/co-owners to get the airplane out of the leaseback. Problem was, the people who could afford the partnership... all had new airplanes leased-back to the same place. And it didn't sound like he could *really* afford his own airplane.

Some sales guy did real well a couple years before that, I suppose.

I hope the guy found a reasonable solution to his "not getting rented much" and "not flying it enough" combined problem.
 
This is one man's perspective, new pilot, no plane, currently have a plane going into pre-buy Thursday:
-New is too expensive for the features and capability I want.
-I did not buy new because I did not want to spend my money on the purchase price (monthly payments) and higher maintenance cost.
-I also did not want to participate on the big depreciation (if I want to exit soon I don't want lose a lot).
-It was also less of a commitment if buying a plane turned out to be a stupid decision.

Regardless of whether I'm right or wrong, that's the reason I did not buy new.
 
citizen5000 said:
There are thousands of Cirrus owners in the air (over 6,000). The level of experience and expertise range in the same way as the general pilot population flying other types of aircraft new and used. There are both new and used Cirrus owners and now there will be Cirrus jet owners. The mere fact Cirrus is the leader in sales in their markets (by a wide margin) prove they attract knowledgeable and sophisticated aviators who also happen to have the money to buy the best.
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Kool-Aid.gif
 
tsts4 said:
Because they want new and can afford it--Basically the same reason people buy new cars.
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Basically because Uncle helps pay for it since most of these are bought for "business."
 
I'll just be glad when I get to be a "knowledgeable and sophisticated aviator." :(

IMO, being able to afford a new aircraft doesn't automatically make one knowledgeable and sophisticated.
 
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IMG_1251.JPG If I could afford a new 195kt aircraft I'd a bought one.... instead I got this old tired used one for a fraction of the price.
 
FastEddieB said:
I've asked him before if he's ever flown one, but got ignored. Maybe if someone else asks him nicely we can get some idea of his background and level of expertise.
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I'm pretty sure he's posting from mom's basement, and Google answers most of his questions about Flight Sim. Hahah.

His list of "mountain airports" was pretty laughable.
 
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