Who ya gonna call? clearance delivery...

FORANE

FORANE

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FORANE
You are at an untowered airport without a RCO and need an IFR clearance to get out.
The 888-766-8267 number is going hasta la bye bye.
New numbers supposed to be in chart supplements somewhere.
What are easy ways to locate your number efficiently when all you have is your cell phone and tablet, maybe a 496, etc.?
 
The comments section of Foreflight usually has this covered. If it doesn't, Airports where it is the only option will have something on the chart supplement (AFD) that words something like this one for Quincy CA "CLEARANCE DELIVERY PHONE: For CD ctc NorCal Apch at 916-361-6874"
https://aeronav.faa.gov/afd/25apr2019/sw_190_25APR2019.pdf

So open up foreflight. Click on the airport. Click info. Click A/FD. Look at the communications section towards the bottom of your airport. Type phone number into phone. Hope you have decent enough cell coverage.

If, for some oddball reason, you can't get one. Call a flight service center from a surrounding airport using your cell phone. They are listed on foreflight as well in the "other frequencies" section for an airport. Calling Center directly is going to be quicker but calling a random, somewhat local, FSS will work and is ultra easy to do.
 
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I've used 1800-wxbrief before to get a clearance at a non-towered airport with no RCO/GCO. Actually was one of the easiest remote IFR clearances I've ever gotten as the briefer even asked how long I would be before I was ready to depart so as to get me a clearance void time within my window. When I call up on an RCO/GCO or directly into the local center/tracon via phone, I will often forget to ask for a delay and the controller will assume I am ready to go and give me the next clearance void time which sometimes requires me to ask the briefer to re-do the clearance with a later void time.
 
Back in 2002, I trained in Ottawa (CYOW), where you had to call clearance delivery before every flight, not just IFR. When I first started travelling to the US, I didn't realise that clearance is just for IFR down there, and got chewed out a couple of times before I wised up.
 
When is the main number going away? Just checked the AFD for 1B9 and didn’t see any number listed.
 
David Megginson said:
Back in 2002, I trained in Ottawa (CYOW), where you had to call clearance delivery before every flight, not just IFR. When I first started travelling to the US, I didn't realise that clearance is just for IFR down there, and got chewed out a couple of times before I wised up.
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Not always true. The Bravo's expect you to get a VFR clearance from clearance delivery. Charlie airports tend to be a bit more hit or miss; some expect you to get a VFR clearance from CD before contacting ground while others are fine with getting a clearance from ground before taxi or giving you a clearance from tower before takeoff; whether you contact them on clearance delivery or ground varies from airport to airport. Delta airports dont require a VFR clearance but ground (which regularly serves as clearance delivery except when really really busy) will sometimes ask you your intended direction of flight on departure.

Has to do with the level of control and separation services being provided by the airspace. Since a Bravo separates all traffic and has positive control over all aircraft, they are always going to issue you a clearance before departure and ground/tower are usually too busy to provide you that clearance on frequency thus you need to contact CD.

Charlie's like I said can be hit or miss. Since they only provide separation services for IFR traffic from all other traffic, the busier they are with IFR arrivals/departures, the more likely they will want you on a VFR clearance. That being said I've gotten chewed out by ground on a completely dead day for not contacting clearance delivery first and getting a clearance at KACY but had no problem getting a "clearance" or departure instructions from KSAT Tower or Ground even on busy days.

Since most Delta's dont provide separation services, most dont care but I've had different procedures "enforced" at the same Delta airport depending on the controller and how busy they are. If they have lots of people in their airspace or on the ground waiting to depart, they are more likely to ask your intended direction on departure and issue you an abbreviated clearance of some sort.
 
apr911 said:
Not always true. The Bravo's expect you to get a VFR clearance from clearance delivery. Charlie airports tend to be a bit more hit or miss; some expect you to get a VFR clearance from CD before contacting ground while others are fine with getting a clearance from ground before taxi or giving you a clearance from tower before takeoff; whether you contact them on clearance delivery or ground varies from airport to airport. Delta airports dont require a VFR clearance but ground (which regularly serves as clearance delivery except when really really busy) will sometimes ask you your intended direction of flight on departure.

Has to do with the level of control and separation services being provided by the airspace. Since a Bravo separates all traffic and has positive control over all aircraft, they are always going to issue you a clearance before departure and ground/tower are usually too busy to provide you that clearance on frequency thus you need to contact CD.

Charlie's like I said can be hit or miss. Since they only provide separation services for IFR traffic from all other traffic, the busier they are with IFR arrivals/departures, the more likely they will want you on a VFR clearance. That being said I've gotten chewed out by ground on a completely dead day for not contacting clearance delivery first and getting a clearance at KACY but had no problem getting a "clearance" or departure instructions from KSAT Tower or Ground even on busy days.

Since most Delta's dont provide separation services, most dont care but I've had different procedures "enforced" at the same Delta airport depending on the controller and how busy they are. If they have lots of people in their airspace or on the ground waiting to depart, they are more likely to ask your intended direction on departure and issue you an abbreviated clearance of some sort.
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That makes sense. CYOW is class C, and our class C is roughly equivalent to US class B (separation for everyone). I don't remember calling clearance at KIAD or KPHL, but that was well over 10 years ago.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The change will simplify things a lot.
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How?

Previously there was one number. Now lots of numbers that have to be looked up. Sounds more complicated, at least at first.

I wish they had an antennae at each untowered airport so I could call them like I do at towered airports and get my clearance.



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
 
wayne said:
How?

Previously there was one number. Now lots of numbers that have to be looked up. Sounds more complicated, at least at first.

I wish they had an antennae at each untowered airport so I could call them like I do at towered airports and get my clearance.



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
With the national number, it was a three-way conversation. You called Flight Service. They called ATC, then they got back to you. If you had a question or needed a change, the 3 way conversation continued.

I've been using the "new way" by choice for about 7 years. I learned the number to call my local ATC and used that. Flying into a different nontowered field, I would ask the last controller if there was a number I could call them to pick up a clearance on the way out. So much easier!

I agree it would be great if there was a CD radio frequency or other direct ATC radio communication from the ground at every nontowered airport (there are at some) but that's not going to happen. And looking up the number in the new system is exactly as complicated as looking up a CD radio frequency.

We'll likely see an update including in in our favorite EFB communications page.

upload_2019-6-9_7-8-49.png
 
Bringing this back up. The more I look, the more I am wondering how much of a change it really will be. The picture I posted above makes sense - it is a number to call Portland TRACON for clearance. But on the other hand, check out this one for EQY which sits under the Charlotte Class B shelf about 20 NM from the primary.

Notice my highlight. It's a number to call Atlanta Center, not, Charlotte TRACON, the facility which is actually going to release your flight into the system. I'm not completely familiar with how this works, but it sounds like if you call from the ground at EQY, you are still going to be subject to some kind of relay (Center to TRACON to Center and prhaps even Flight Data Controller to flight Controller within a TRACON). Perhaps not for the details of the clearance itself — that's computerized — but certainly the release and void times for fitting into the system.

I guess we'll see how it works when we see how it works.

upload_2019-6-11_16-46-45.png
 
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David Megginson said:
Back in 2002, I trained in Ottawa (CYOW), where you had to call clearance delivery before every flight, not just IFR. When I first started travelling to the US, I didn't realise that clearance is just for IFR down there, and got chewed out a couple of times before I wised up.
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Depends on the airport. Nearly all the class B's use CD for VFR as well as well as some class C's though most just have VFRs call up on ground. Nobody should be "chewing" anybody out on the radio for that sort of thing. If they were other than pilot, I'd be making a phone call during the next business day.
 
EdFred said:
I just picked a handful of airports in Michigan, and I don't see CD numbers listed for any of them.

https://aeronav.faa.gov/afd/25apr2019/ec_184_25APR2019.pdf (9D9)
https://aeronav.faa.gov/afd/25apr2019/ec_205_25APR2019.pdf (TEW)
https://aeronav.faa.gov/afd/25apr2019/ec_189_25APR2019.pdf (Y70)
https://aeronav.faa.gov/afd/25apr2019/ec_157_25APR2019.pdf (CVX, FPK)
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Looks like you are looking at April. Try the upcoming June 20 edition. That's the edition slated to have them. Like this.
upload_2019-6-11_21-40-12.png
 
I went to the FAA site and pulled up the current chart supplement they had linked. Didn't know the next one in line was already published.
Just went back and looked, and I used the chart supplement search ( https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/dafd/search/ ) to get my information. Scrolling down I see there's a zip file with the next issue coming out - which I haven't downloaded.

Edit: Even on that link I posted there's the option to select the next edition due out.
 
EdFred said:
I went to the FAA site and pulled up the current chart supplement they had linked. Didn't know the next one in line was already published.
Just went back and looked, and I used the chart supplement search ( https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/dafd/search/ ) to get my information. Scrolling down I see there's a zip file with the next issue coming out - which I haven't downloaded.

Edit: Even on that link I posted there's the option to select the next edition due out.
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Go here: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/dafd/. When the next edition has be finalized, the current and next issues are always side by side at the bottom of the page. PDFs, not zip files.

(Maybe we need a flow chart? :D)
 
midlifeflyer said:
:yeahthat: Like most FAA graphic publications, the Chart Supplement has a legend too.
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Yeah, but a satellite view was quicker than finding the page the chart supplement. :) Though, i was 95% sure what it was before looking at the aerial.
 
midlifeflyer said:
One would think the Chart Users Guide would be the most comprehensive one, but it isn't.
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Yeah, that’s what I figured, but then I guess it follows a logic. The Guide does have the legend for the Airport Sketch on the Approach Charts but they aren’t as detailed as the ones in the AF/D (which is found in the Chart Supplement.) The AF/D, not being a chart, doesn’t get in the Chart Users Guide.
 
David Megginson said:
Back in 2002, I trained in Ottawa (CYOW), where you had to call clearance delivery before every flight, not just IFR. When I first started travelling to the US, I didn't realise that clearance is just for IFR down there, and got chewed out a couple of times before I wised up.
Click to expand...

Actually, I trained in CYOW as well, and the process is exactly the same in the U.S. If you are departing from a class C airport (which CYOW is) you call clearance delivery, then ground, then tower. I am confused why you got chewed out.
 
It all depends on the airport. KSNA sends everyone to clearance, even pattern workers. I'm pretty sure KFAT had me use ground for an IFR clearance. KOAK sends the GA side to ground for everything. It just depends.

David Megginson said:
Back in 2002, I trained in Ottawa (CYOW), where you had to call clearance delivery before every flight, not just IFR. When I first started travelling to the US, I didn't realise that clearance is just for IFR down there, and got chewed out a couple of times before I wised up.
Click to expand...

Depends on the airport. I got sent to clearance at a Class D for VFR flight following once. The Class D I am based at has a CD frequency that they never use for anything.

PilotRPI said:
When is the main number going away? Just checked the AFD for 1B9 and didn’t see any number listed.
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Cost and more direct communications.

noahfong said:
i don't see where it says that number is going away.
Click to expand...

It's been well published.

sarangan said:
Actually, I trained in CYOW as well, and the process is exactly the same in the U.S. If you are departing from a class C airport (which CYOW is) you call clearance delivery, then ground, then tower. I am confused why you got chewed out.
Click to expand...

A Class C in Canada is not like a Class C In the US. You need clearance into a C in Canada, you only need two way radio communications in the US, unless told to remain clear.
 
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I must have been living under a rock. I only found out about it the last time I called the clearance delivery phone number when I needed a clearance out of a non-towered field.
 
Looked for a number to call last week. Avare AF/D page for the airport didn't have the updated phone number.
You guys think it is just a matter of waiting?
 
FORANE said:
Looked for a number to call last week. Avare AF/D page for the airport didn't have the updated phone number.
You guys think it is just a matter of waiting?
Click to expand...

I don't think so, they're all supposed to be in there now, although there have been some errors, so it could be that.

What airport?

If I couldn't find one at the airport I was at, I'd just look at a nearby airport for the same information.
 
A guy on Beechtalk said that if there is a RCO or GCO they won’t have a phone number. He says that will be rectified in the August update or thereabouts.
 
just a student, but what happens if you have a cellphone that wont work in that area? I have had it happen too many times traveling, where wont work on someone else's towers, or ask for credit card to connect, even though its supposed to be in your area, my current cell wont work in parts of PA, but is fine in OH, WV, VA, NC, BUT at my home I have zero service, until I go 4 miles away from mountains. a few years ago I was at a reunion, someone was choking, had zero service, couldn't even call 911, but others with different companies were able to call for an ambulance & had 2-3 bars of signal. I have used 3 different companies in last 20 years, & always had areas where cell wouldn't work at all.
 
FORANE said:
Looked for a number to call last week. Avare AF/D page for the airport didn't have the updated phone number.
You guys think it is just a matter of waiting?
Click to expand...
Yes.

There is at least one more round coming. For example, nontowered airports which already have something for CD have't received a phone entry, even if that something is an RCO to FSS or a GCO which hasn't worked in years. Heck, my home base says to use the (nonworking) RCO or call the Universal CD phone which is being replaced by the system :D ).

Supposedly it will all be done by the October Supplement but I don't expect glitch-free from anyone, so it will be done when it is done.
 
old_biker said:
just a student, but what happens if you have a cellphone that wont work in that area?
Click to expand...

Well, in the old days, before mobile phones, you called from a payphone or the FBO phone for a void time, then hustled to your plane and hustled to the runway to get off before your void time expired. I haven't been to too many airports I can think of where I didn't get adequate mobile phone reception.
 
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