Where's Dr. Bruce?
- Thread starter spiderweb
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asgcpa
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And Bruce is giving advice in the Red Board forum, where he doesn't have false allegations slung at him.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Is Bruce slinging personal attacks like he did here?
Wait 6 months and see where he is. Nothing new here, he has come and gone 3 times I am aware of. Like others have said, he can dish it out, but he cannot take it. Attack, get feelings hurt, pout, leave, come back, repeat. Yawn.
Was he an asset to POA? Sure. Did I read and take his advice? Yep. Do I miss the drama? Nope.
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ggroves
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Titanium
Doc has full moderator authority of the Medical sub-forum on the Red Board. Big difference...
asgcpa
En-Route
It's one thing to dish out snide comments, it's another thing to attack a man's integrity and make false accusations of greed. I never said he didn't dish it out, but Jay started it and it spiraled downward. Having talked to him at times about this board, he could take the bs. Just like your comment that you started with. I can see you don't care for the man and that's your prerogative. I can tell you it's comments like that which caused him to start questioning this board in November. Like I said, I think it was the baseless accusations made by Jay that was the straw. And I still think Bruce is owed an apology for that. It really doesn't matter to me because I know where I can reach him. It's the newbies who are unfamiliar with him as a resource with a question that will be initially hindered. Just my thought.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
You need to re-read the attacks for the last 3 months.
You have no idea what I think of the man, you have only an indication of what I think of his actions. Actions speak louder than words. I have tried to reach out to him with no response.
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asgcpa
En-Route
My opinion is based in reading what you write.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
There have been times that he was sick of the circus on the red board and left. He came back and became a mod sometime in 2010.
asgcpa
En-Route
And you re-read the comment I made regarding the accusations of greed. I'm not going to debate it. The stand I am taking is that Bruce's integrity was wrongly attacked by Honek and Honek should apologize for that. No more no less.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
I'm pretty sure Jay did.
asgcpa
En-Route
Really? Where ? Does Bruce know ?
There is a good reason for that-- someone may read the misinformation and take action to their detriment. Dr. Bruce tries to clarify so people know the medical realities. It would frustrate me too if I were a doctor dispensing medical advice for those in need only to have some internet hero come on and muddy the waters with what he as a doctor knows to be bullsh!t.
Dr. O
Pattern Altitude
There is a good reason I don't offer medical advice unless I am paid for it and apparently the flame war that I missed is a good example of why.
Last night at a prayer service for the father of a friend. Afterwards they clustered around me and asked what I thought happened to him. He had a known heart history with prior Mi, etc. Had just rolled the speedo over the 700 mile marker on his mountain bike plus walking twice a day. Felt like a million bucks. Death was sudden after he carried some stuff out to the garage.
After listening to the wife who was present when he went down it was clear to me that death was most likely due to a rapidly dissecting aortic aneurism rather than the MI that had been casually diagnosed. (no autopsy)
Now, what would be served by publicly disputing the family doctor they trusted?
First: Not a damned the.
Second: It would not make the slightest difference in patient outcome. What he had is rapidly fatal and therefore untreatable.
Like Kenny sang, ya gotta know when to hold em and when to fold em.
No pizzin contest ever did anyone any good.
Last night at a prayer service for the father of a friend. Afterwards they clustered around me and asked what I thought happened to him. He had a known heart history with prior Mi, etc. Had just rolled the speedo over the 700 mile marker on his mountain bike plus walking twice a day. Felt like a million bucks. Death was sudden after he carried some stuff out to the garage.
After listening to the wife who was present when he went down it was clear to me that death was most likely due to a rapidly dissecting aortic aneurism rather than the MI that had been casually diagnosed. (no autopsy)
Now, what would be served by publicly disputing the family doctor they trusted?
First: Not a damned the.
Second: It would not make the slightest difference in patient outcome. What he had is rapidly fatal and therefore untreatable.
Like Kenny sang, ya gotta know when to hold em and when to fold em.
No pizzin contest ever did anyone any good.
asgcpa
En-Route
This is a quote from Jay's posting -
So, sorry, no apologies from this end. Dr. Bruce may be the best doctor in the world, but with a bedside manner like his, the disease would be preferable to the cure.
I fail to see where he apologized
asgcpa
En-Route
Because that's what happens. There needs to be a modicum of decorum where people don't take shots at others. I have been guilty of that when I took a shot at a troll last week who has been banned because he was taking shots at a lot of us.
Florida Cracker
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Florida Cracker
Dr. Bruce left because he felt like it.
He'll come back when he feels like it.
The rest is just rinse and repeat.
He'll come back when he feels like it.
The rest is just rinse and repeat.
In the medical forum there, he has moderation privs, so he can delete the obnoxious stuff.
retailguy
Line Up and Wait
I bolded the only part of your post I disagree with.
Bruce's zoom climb comment was in his first post. Jay had not said anything to Dr. Bruce at that point. His comments had been confined to his existing AME, and a few potshots at the FAA medical branch.
The zoom climb comment was a carryover from the last thread where Dr. Bruce and Jay went at it. This did not begin over colorblindness. My bet is that it will not end there either.
After the zoom climb thread, I PM'ed Jay, told him I missed his contributions and hoped he'd return one day.
Dr. Bruce is now the only AME I will visit for the rest of my flying career. I will be beating down his door if he ever really retires. Like you, I am only flying because of his persistence and willingness to help me. He could have charged me triple what he did, and I'd have paid it without complaint. I respect him immensely.
In this one though, I'm not taking sides. They're both guilty. I learned most of what I know about the Cherokee 235 and the variants from Jay's postings all over the internet. Bruce saved my medical. I wish they'd figure out how to get along, but I don't rule the world.... so, it tis what it tis.
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
This thread reminds me of the " what's the whoop on taildraggers". I flew for 55 years and never even heard of the good doctor. The argument seems a little juvenile. " dogs bark and the caravan moves on."
asgcpa
En-Route
Maybe this feud between Jay and Bruce was started earlier. I
Will have to defer as one other individual directed me to the previous thread. However: no where in any of the posts regarding colorblindness did I see Bruce attack Jay regarding his business integrity or hotel business. In my opinion, you do not mess with a person's livelihood. In that regard I still think Jay was out of line. But that's just my opinion.
nddons
Touchdown! Greaser!
There had been some sniping going on for a while. Bruce has a very low opinion of the knucklehead contingent within the RV community and does not hold back with that opinion whether asked for it or not. Once Jay joined the RV cult, he took those opinions personal.
Same thing happened when he moved to Texa. Once he moved south, he became more texan than the texans. So although he is from Iowa, now any good natured ribbing against his new chosen home was taken personal.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
This is why I asked you to read back a couple of months, but you would rather argue without the facts.
asgcpa
En-Route
This is why I asked you to read back a couple of months, but you would rather argue without the facts.
No. Jay specifically stated he was not going to apologize regarding his comments on the colorblindness thread. He attacked Bruce's integrity. He was wrong on that and in my opinion he should apologize. I think you ought to re read that thread. My opinion has nothing to do about what was said by either party in previous threads. You just don't seem to get that. I think I am arguing with the facts. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Gary F
Final Approach
And that was the big problem. It's OK to argue about airplanes but when somebody implies that a physician is motivated by greed it's different. Many physicians are guilty of financial bias but I am convinced that Dr Bruce is not one of them. It was beyond poor judgement to suggest that he was profiting from the system.No. Jay specifically stated he was not going to apologize regarding his comments on the colorblindness thread. He attacked Bruce's integrity. He was wrong on that and in my opinion he should apologize. I think you ought to re read that thread. My opinion has nothing to do about what was said by either party in previous threads. You just don't seem to get that. I think I am arguing with the facts. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
asgcpa
En-Route
Gary, i agree. I generally think it's wrong to attack someone's integrity when that attack is baseless. Especially in Bruce's case.
silver-eagle
En-Route
I concur that there is little change in anyone knowing the true cause of a sudden death as long as foul play was not involved. Having experienced same quite recently, I know knowing the cause won't change the outcome or lessen the pain.
People ask for many reasons. The answer doesn't change a thing. The funeral home suggested that asking probably wasn't good manners either but people will. And my personal experience is most have.
ClimbnSink
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Greg
Anyone else ever notice how comments and insults with zero truth behind them are simply ignored. Takes more then a hint of truth to have any effect with an insult.
asgcpa
En-Route
It's potential slander. As an example, someone who doesn't know Dr Bruce may have considered him before Jays comments and then changed his mind after. It's just plain wrong to attack a mans integrity with baseless comments.
Gary F
Final Approach
He just doesn't get it. It's one thing to question a physician's knowledge or judgement (Dr Bruce is unquestionably one of the best if not the best AME in the country) but to disparage a physician's integrity without evidence is absolutely unacceptable. I don't blame him for leaving. This forum has completely degenerated in his absence. Supplements for cockfighting, really? http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67762
ClimbnSink
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Greg
Now you are insulting everybody on the board just like Bruce used to. Yes everyone here(except you) supports cockfighting. Funny enough the responses support my notion of no effect without a hint of truth.
Gary F
Final Approach
How so? Did I state that everyone here supports cockfighting? This is the same type of crap that ran off Dr. Bruce.
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Bob Noel
I absolutely agree it's wrong to attack a man's integrity.
(but anyone who bases their doctor/ame decisions on interweb comments alone is an idiot).
But, I absolutely agree it's wrong to attack a man's integrity.
asgcpa
En-Route
Don't put words into my mouth even if you are being sarcastic and joking....
JimNtexas
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Jim - In Texas!
I could not agree more, based on my personal experience. Had Dr Bruce charged me an hourly rate appropriate to a man of his experience I would have paid five to ten time the small he amount he charged me to help with my OSA and motorcycle accident issues that came up on my last FAA physical!
Dr Bruce answered numerous emails from me, and coordinated directly with my family doctor (who is a good doctor and pilot, but doesn't understand how a fax machine works) several times to be sure we had the correct paperwork and data needed for my physical.
He carefully reviewed reports from the ER and Sleep doctors that I had been involved with. An experienced lawyer would have charged more just to review those documents than I paid Dr Bruce for both his pre-physical work and the actual FAA physical I took in his office.
He needs make a living, as we all do. But he's the least 'greedy' professional I've dealt with in a long time.
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Concur. I had a (to me) life changing medical event over the holidays, and after I got home I called Bruce to ask how best to get my medical. He told me it would be in my best interest to have him do it all if I was willing to travel to Peoria when the time comes. I am.
When he quoted his price I was shocked! Not shocked at how high it was, but at how reasonable it was. He is NOT getting rich doing this and he is NOT "milking" the system. I am glad good guys like Dr B are on our side helping average Joes get back in the air.
asgcpa
En-Route
Bill and Jim, here is my experience. My son's medical, for a healthy 21 year old with NO medical issues, cost $175. My Canadian medical cost $250. My medical with Dr. Bruce was less than my son's medical, and the medical PLUS the consulting was slightly higher than my Canadian medical.
Dr. Bruce spent time on a work up as to my issues. Gave me a list of things I needed, i.e. letters, reports of tests, reports of CPAP compliance etc. Spent time emailing back and forth. He spent an hour on the phone with me prior to me filling out the MedXpress and explaining how to do it AND telling me that even though it wasn't obvious, the OSA was required to be disclosed. I then came down to Peoria, and had the exam. He submitted it to the FAA right then while I waited, and discussed my particulars with the FAA doctor on the other end of the phone. He must have spent probably 4 hours on my case. I figure the hourly rate was about $75. The fact that I got my medical was priceless. Dr. Bruce in my opinion, is a saint when it comes to AME stuff. I really don't care about his reaction to RV flyers, or other non-medical stuff. He is perhaps one of the best AMEs out there, and in my opinion, we on this board lost a valuable resource because of the ignorance and stupidity of a few. I am thankful I have Dr. Bruce as a resource and friend.
That seems naive. It sure doesn't seem to work like that in politics, for example.
Concorde
Pre-takeoff checklist
I hope that you are joking .