Where/what is WALDP?

[Insane]

Recently I got an IFR clearance coming out of New Orleans that started with WALDP. I had filed with foreflight so got my clearance in email. That starting point doesn't seem to exist... What does it mean? In fairness when I actually got my clearance from the tower they omitted this starting point. Is it some internal code that has meaning only to local ATC or is this some global internal reference to something?

 

[poadeleted20]

I'm guessing by the "DP" on the end that it refers to a Departure Procedure. Which airport were you departing?

 

[Insane]

I'm guessing by the "DP" on the end that it refers to a Departure Procedure. Which airport were you departing?

Lakefront KNEW

 

[poadeleted20]

KNEW does have a couple of ODP's, and ODP's may be mandated by ATC. Perhaps that is what they were thinking. However, your best chance at a reliable answer might be to call the TRACON there and ask them. Try (504) 241-1139.

 

[dukeblue219]

Here's some good info: http://www.liveatc.net/forums/listener-forum/unlisted-departure-fixes/?wap2

Looks like it's guidance from ARTCC for TRACON to follow and isn't necessarily information that should be presented to the pilot. I gather from that link that it's basically directions for how they should radar vector you after departure.

 

[roncachamp]

Recently I got an IFR clearance coming out of New Orleans that started with WALDP. I had filed with foreflight so got my clearance in email. That starting point doesn't seem to exist... What does it mean? In fairness when I actually got my clearance from the tower they omitted this starting point. Is it some internal code that has meaning only to local ATC or is this some global internal reference to something?

Perhaps it was a spelling error.

 

[NoHeat]

Exactly what I was thinking!

 

[Brad Z]

Recently I got an IFR clearance coming out of New Orleans that started with WALDP. I had filed with foreflight so got my clearance in email. That starting point doesn't seem to exist... What does it mean? In fairness when I actually got my clearance from the tower they omitted this starting point. Is it some internal code that has meaning only to local ATC or is this some global internal reference to something?

What's the rest of the clearance? What did flightaware show for the clearance?

 

[frfly172]

Need the entire clearance,could be a published departure procedure for that airport.

 

[poadeleted20]

Let us know what you find out when you call the TRACON.

 

[Brad Z]

Recently I got an IFR clearance coming out of New Orleans that started with WALDP. I had filed with foreflight so got my clearance in email. That starting point doesn't seem to exist... What does it mean? In fairness when I actually got my clearance from the tower they omitted this starting point. Is it some internal code that has meaning only to local ATC or is this some global internal reference to something?

WALDP is the secret code at the TRACON for delay vectors issued to guys who try to race other pilots to their destination and then b!tch, brag, and boast on the internet about it.

 

[Insane]

All these geniuses here but only Ted got it right it appears. The rest of you going on about DPs? There are none in New Orleans. Go and have a look. None. So obviously they just vector outgoing traffic and WALDP is one of their internal gates or procedures that is not published.

 

[Insane]

WALDP is the secret code at the TRACON for delay vectors issued to guys who try to race other pilots to their destination and then b!tch, brag, and boast on the internet about it.

Actually I did have a little issue when I arrived about five minutes after the tower closed. I did a straight in, and there was a cessna in the traffic who actually thought he had right of way. But sadly, no, he didn't so I had to remind him on CTAF to stay clear, I'm coming straight in and for him to make sure he extended his downwind.



What's with these people?

 

[poadeleted20]

All these geniuses here but only Ted got it right it appears. The rest of you going on about DPs? There are none in New Orleans. Go and have a look. None.

I did, and there are. Look again yourself in the SC-4 Terminal Procedures book, section L, page L-10.

 

[Insane]

I did, and there are. Look again yourself in the SC-4 Terminal Procedures book, section L, page L-10.

Nobody reads that crap. If it ain't in Foreflight or in my up-to-date Nav database in my plane, then it don't exist...

Put that down that stuff that nobody reads and have a look again at the PUBLISHED DP's that can be loaded into an IFR rated Nav system... There are none. Zilch. Nada.

I will gladly accept your apology at this time.

 

[AggieMike88]

Nobody reads that crap. If it ain't in Foreflight or in my up-to-date Nav database in my plane, then it don't exist...

Put that down that stuff that nobody reads and have a look again at the PUBLISHED DP's that can be loaded into an IFR rated Nav system... There are none. Zilch. Nada.

I will gladly accept your apology at this time.

Actually, the DP's are easily accessed in FF. In the Airpot screens, look up the airport in question, then PROCEDURES >> DEPARTURES and look for Takeoff Minimums.

And nice application of the D.Carnegie ideal.

-----------------------

NEW ORLEANS, LA
LAKEFRONT (NEW)
AMDT 1 11013 (FAA)
TAKEOFF MINIMUMS: Rwy 18R, std. w/ min. climb of
204' per NM to 1400, or alternatively, with standard
takeoff minimums and a normal 200' per NM climb
gradient, takeoff must occur no later than 1700' prior to
DER.
DEPARTURE PROCEDURE: Rwy 9, climb heading 087°
to 1400 before turning right. Rwys 18L,18R, climb
heading 177° to 1400 before turning left.

 

[Jaybird180]

 

[Insane]

Actually, the DP's are easily accessed in FF. In the Airpot screens, look up the airport in question, then PROCEDURES >> DEPARTURES and look for Takeoff Minimums.

And nice application of the D.Carnegie ideal.

-----------------------

NEW ORLEANS, LA
LAKEFRONT (NEW)
AMDT 1 11013 (FAA)
TAKEOFF MINIMUMS: Rwy 18R, std. w/ min. climb of
204' per NM to 1400, or alternatively, with standard
takeoff minimums and a normal 200' per NM climb
gradient, takeoff must occur no later than 1700' prior to
DER.
DEPARTURE PROCEDURE: Rwy 9, climb heading 087°
to 1400 before turning right. Rwys 18L,18R, climb
heading 177° to 1400 before turning left.

Those are not required DP's that can be assigned by ATC those are just some recommendations on how to avoid nuisance objects like towers while climbing out VFR. And that makes no sense whatsoever because if you're VFR the whole area is wide open and just looking outside the plane and staying away from the class bravo airspace you would have to be pretty dumb to hit something. Under IFR, you cannot just self elect to do those "DP"'s. Also do you see any WALDP's in all of that?

You should probably have a chat with your CFII. Oh wait, that is Ron Levy. Never mind.

No you're all just being argumentative. Just admit you are wrong and/or don't know the answer and we can all move on.

 

[RussR]

The comments are no longer about WALDP, nobody really has an answer and the recommendation was that you call ATC and ask. I would be interested in what you find out as well.

The comments are now aimed toward your statement that there are no published DPs at KNEW, which is incorrect, and your comments that the textual ODPs are some kind of VFR recommendation to avoid "nuisance obstacles", which is also incorrect. I would hate for an instrument student to read that and get the completely wrong idea.

This stuff should have been covered during your instrument training. If it wasn't, then some review would really be in order.

Maybe in Louisiana textual ODPs aren't considered too important, but in some states those "nuisance obstacles" could be mountains.

 

[roncachamp]

Those are not required DP's that can be assigned by ATC those are just some recommendations on how to avoid nuisance objects like towers while climbing out VFR. And that makes no sense whatsoever because if you're VFR the whole area is wide open and just looking outside the plane and staying away from the class bravo airspace you would have to be pretty dumb to hit something. Under IFR, you cannot just self elect to do those "DP"'s. Also do you see any WALDP's in all of that?

Wrong on both counts. Where only textually described obstacle departure procedures have been published for a location and pilot compliance is necessary to ensure separation, the procedure is to be included as part of the ATC clearance. If a published IFR departure procedure is not included in an ATC clearance, compliance with such a procedure is the pilot’s prerogative. See Order JO 7110.65 Air Traffic Control paragraph 4−3−2. DEPARTURE CLEARANCES.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Go and relook at my original post. It is a LEGITIMATE question. What happens (as usual) is that a bunch of people who basically don't know anything come on and give their worthless opinions not based on fact. Not all of you. Just some of you.



And anyone who doesn't post under their real name is a "troll" by the very loose definition that seems to be used around here.



If you don't know the answer to my question and don't have anything useful to say other than to attack me how about you move on?

You made a statement (which I quoted) that indicates you either do not understand instrument departure procedures, or you are just trying to stir crap up. Which is it?

We can provide references to show the error of your thought process, but it would be a waste of time if you don't wish to learn.

 

[Insane]

Wrong on both counts. Where only textually described obstacle departure procedures have been published for a location and pilot compliance is necessary to ensure separation, the procedure is to be included as part of the ATC clearance. If a published IFR departure procedure is not included in an ATC clearance, compliance with such a procedure is the pilot’s prerogative. See Order JO 7110.65 Air Traffic Control paragraph 4−3−2. DEPARTURE CLEARANCES.

Ah, finally some coherent arguments instead of name calling.

Thank you.

Okay, so to quote that paragraph you provided:

2. Where only textually described obstacle
departure procedures (ODP) have been published for
a location and pilot compliance is necessary to ensure
separation, include the procedure as part of the ATC
clearance.

That states CLEARLY that if I am receiving an IFR clearance I don't need to regard those TDP's unless I am told to and then that will be included in the procedure as part of the clearance such as "on departure fly heading XX, climb and maintain YYYY".

 

[roncachamp]

Ah, finally some coherent arguments instead of name calling.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

That states CLEARLY that if I am receiving an IFR clearance I don't need to regard those TDP's unless I am told to and then that will be included in the procedure as part of the clearance such as "on departure fly heading XX, climb and maintain YYYY".

Yes, and that CLEARLY indicates your assertions that they are not required DPs that can be assigned by ATC, that they are just some recommendations on how to avoid nuisance objects like towers while climbing out VFR, are crapola.

 

[poadeleted20]

Nobody reads that crap. If it ain't in Foreflight or in my up-to-date Nav database in my plane, then it don't exist...

First, you may be the only instrument pilot I've ever heard of who doesn't "read that crap". Second, I pulled it out of ForeFlight. Third, taking that attitude regarding Section L of the TP's will get you killed in many places in the USA.

Put that down that stuff that nobody reads and have a look again at the PUBLISHED DP's that can be loaded into an IFR rated Nav system... There are none. Zilch. Nada.

The fact that a DP cannot be "loaded into an IFR rated Nav system" does not change the facts that it exists, and that failure to adhere to it may kill you. I can also guarantee that if you take that position during an IR practical test, what you will receive at the end of the day is a Notice of Disapproval citing Area I/Task C and Area III/Task B, not a Temporary Airman Certificate.

I will gladly accept your apology at this time.

What you need is additional training on instrument procedures, not my apology.

 

[poadeleted20]

Those are not required DP's that can be assigned by ATC those are just some recommendations on how to avoid nuisance objects like towers while climbing out VFR.

Clearly your knowledge of instrument procedures falls well short of that required to hold instrument privileges. For starters, those DP's can be required by ATC as part of your IFR clearance. Second, they are specifically for IFR use, and not even part of the required knowledge for VFR-only pilots. I strongly suggest a careful review of AIM Section 5-2-8 and the Instrument Procedures Handbook Chapter 2 before you get either violated or killed by your lack of knowledge.

 

[Insane]

Clearly your knowledge of instrument procedures falls well short of that required to hold instrument privileges.

For starters, those DP's can be required by ATC as part of your IFR clearance.

Yes indeed. It is provided as part of the clearance as the reference quoted by Roncachamp makes clear. Again, you seem to have a comprehension problem, so I need to repeat myself, there is nothing in those TDP's that is anything more than vectors and altitudes which you will get anyway as part of your clearance.

Second, they are specifically for IFR use, and not even part of the required knowledge for VFR-only pilots.

How do you get that?

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

This is getting good.

 

[Insane]

Yes, and that CLEARLY indicates your assertions that they are not required DPs that can be assigned by ATC, that they are just some recommendations on how to avoid nuisance objects like towers while climbing out VFR, are crapola.

So tell me, how is not reading this going to affect me in any way with getting my clearance from ATC? Are they going to say "N123 cleared to XXX via the textual departure procedure"?

 

[Jimmy cooper]

I consulted prof. Irwin Cory, my go to, Waldup is short for the great Waldo pepper, a movie. Not a must see but fair.

 

[roncachamp]

And anyone who doesn't post under their real name is a "troll" by the very loose definition that seems to be used around here.

Loose perhaps, but it definitely applies here.

 

[roncachamp]

So tell me, how is not reading this going to affect me in any way with getting my clearance from ATC? Are they going to say "N123 cleared to XXX via the textual departure procedure"?

I don't think it will affect you at all.

 

[jordane93]

This is getting good.

I'll have some popcorn too

 

[poadeleted20]

Yes indeed. It is provided as part of the clearance as the reference quoted by Roncachamp makes clear. Again, you seem to have a comprehension problem, so I need to repeat myself, there is nothing in those TDP's that is anything more than vectors and altitudes which you will get anyway as part of your clearance.



How do you get that?

At this point, I realize that the Law of Readiness applies, and there is no point discussing this further with Insane. I'll be happy to answer questions from anyone else about instrument departure procedures (a new thread might be a good idea for those people), but otherwise, I'm done here.

 

[PPC1052]

How do you get that?

This is not directed at the OP. I am just going to briefly point out for the aspiring IFR students out there that the ODPs (what the OP is referring to as textual departure procedures) are intended for folks departing airports to follow to avoid hitting obstructions (such as towers, trees and mountains, etc.) during the period of time from climb out until radar contact. (That may not be the precise definition, but it's in the ball park). One may know of the existence of such an ODP for any particular airport by looking at the IFR approach plates and noting the bold triangle with the inverse T at the top of the plate, which tells you to go to the TERPS entry for that airport. If departing an airport, PLEASE check for these so that you know how to safely get to altitude under IFR conditions during that period of time from the start of your roll until you can get vectors under radar control, or join an established run way at or above MOCA/MEA, etc. These are not (as OP suggests) just for VFR pilots (who can presumably see these obstructions under VMC conditions).

 

[PPC1052]

So tell me, how is not reading this going to affect me in any way with getting my clearance from ATC? Are they going to say "N123 cleared to XXX via the textual departure procedure"?

Please review this video. There is a great discussion of ODPs in this presentation. I really think it would be beneficial for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUzR8f1Npss

 

[roncachamp]

This is not directed at the OP. I am just going to briefly point out for the aspiring IFR students out there that the ODPs (what the OP is referring to as textual departure procedures) are intended for folks departing airports to follow to avoid hitting obstructions (such as towers, trees and mountains, etc.) during the period of time from climb out until radar contact. (That may not be the precise definition, but it's in the ball park). One may know of the existence of such an ODP for any particular airport by looking at the IFR approach plates and noting the bold triangle with the inverse T at the top of the plate, which tells you to go to the TERPS entry for that airport. If departing an airport, PLEASE check for these so that you know how to safely get to altitude under IFR conditions during that period of time from the start of your roll until you can get vectors under radar control, or join an established run way at or above MOCA/MEA, etc. These are not (as OP suggests) just for VFR pilots (who can presumably see these obstructions under VMC conditions).

From the Pilot/Controller Glossary:

OBSTACLE DEPARTURE PROCEDURE (ODP)− A preplanned instrument flight rule (IFR) departure procedure printed for pilot use in textual or graphic form to provide obstruction clearance via the least onerous route from the terminal area to the appropriate en route structure. ODPs are recommended for obstruction clearance and may be flown without ATC clearance unless an alternate departure procedure (SID or radar vector) has been specifically assigned by ATC.

 

[PPC1052]

From the Pilot/Controller Glossary:

OBSTACLE DEPARTURE PROCEDURE (ODP)− A preplanned instrument flight rule (IFR) departure procedure printed for pilot use in textual or graphic form to provide obstruction clearance via the least onerous route from the terminal area to the appropriate en route structure. ODPs are recommended for obstruction clearance and may be flown without ATC clearance unless an alternate departure procedure (SID or radar vector) has been specifically assigned by ATC.

Thank you.

 

[Insane]

From the Pilot/Controller Glossary:

OBSTACLE DEPARTURE PROCEDURE (ODP)− A preplanned instrument flight rule (IFR) departure procedure printed for pilot use in textual or graphic form to provide obstruction clearance via the least onerous route from the terminal area to the appropriate en route structure. ODPs are recommended for obstruction clearance and may be flown without ATC clearance unless an alternate departure procedure (SID or radar vector) has been specifically assigned by ATC.

Excellent thank you for the reference. So it is not meant for VFR pilots. Thank you for that clarification.

 

[Insane]

This is not directed at the OP. I am just going to briefly point out for the aspiring IFR students out there that the ODPs (what the OP is referring to as textual departure procedures) are intended for folks departing airports to follow to avoid hitting obstructions (such as towers, trees and mountains, etc.) during the period of time from climb out until radar contact. (That may not be the precise definition, but it's in the ball park). One may know of the existence of such an ODP for any particular airport by looking at the IFR approach plates and noting the bold triangle with the inverse T at the top of the plate, which tells you to go to the TERPS entry for that airport. If departing an airport, PLEASE check for these so that you know how to safely get to altitude under IFR conditions during that period of time from the start of your roll until you can get vectors under radar control, or join an established run way at or above MOCA/MEA, etc. These are not (as OP suggests) just for VFR pilots (who can presumably see these obstructions under VMC conditions).

Good points and thank you for your respectful tone and comments. There are a lot of people (regulars) on this forum who could learn a thing or two from you. And yet I'm the "troll".

Yes, I stand corrected. These are not for VFR pilots. On the other hand, they are also not required reading for IFR pilots. I believe a little commonsense needs to prevail here. We're talking about Lakefront airport. Those of you who know it know it is one of the easiest airports around. If you head north you are immediately over the lake. If you head south there are only minor obstacles to deal with and the more immediate concern is making sure you stay away from Bravo if you're VFR. We're not talking about departing a place like Aspen here.

 

[roncachamp]

Thank you.

You're welcome.