Where not to land ...

I've been reading here for a while, first post, I was going to post this. Looking forward to reading more and, one day, learning to fly.

Article says they took off when rangers were trying to approach them. Signals to me they knew they were in the wrong. Hope rangers got the tail number and do something about this. I certainly have the sense not to do something so selfish when I get my certificate.
 
Fiveslide said:
Hope rangers got the tail number and do something about this.
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Why,, I'd bet they didn't harm a thing.
And much less of a foot print than a million fold stomping thru the posies
 
"The wildflower super bloom is so popular, they're being overrun and trampled by visitors. Faced with traffic jams, crushed flowers and overflowing public toilets, authorities earlier this month temporarily closed access to Walker Canyon in Lake Elsinore to the swarms of tourists who flocked there to take the perfect Instagram picture of those bright orange poppies.

Antelope Valley California Poppy Reserve has also seen large crowds with visitors waiting about 30 minutes to over an hour to get in.

State parks officials have been telling the hordes of visitors to stay on designated trails and to stop picking and stomping the flowers to get a photo. They've been emphasizing the rules on social media using the hashtag #DontDoomTheBloom. Authorities say people are even illegally entering the park through barbed wire fencing and crushing the flowers. "It only takes a few to wreck the habitat for years to come," it said on Twitter.

"You can see the damage to the part of the trail where people stepped off," Moreno said. "People are taking selfies with the flowers or laying on the flowers and that's where the flowers won't grow back because so many people are stepping off the trail.""
 
Ravioli said:
Textbook emergency landing, followed by resolving the issue and departing ASAP.

Easy!
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YEP !
How bad do you have to pee, to declare an emergency?
 
Omg short lived flower blossoms might have lived a day less than they could have. It’s the end of the world!!!!!!!!! Until tomorrow.
 
Salty said:
Omg short lived flower blossoms might have lived a day less than they could have. It’s the end of the world!!!!!!!!! Until tomorrow.
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What if 500 helicopters landed in the blooms? Is that OK, if one is OK? Or did the "chosen one" land? The pilot should be busted.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
What if 500 helicopters landed in the blooms? Is that OK, if one is OK? Or did the "chosen one" land? The pilot should be busted.
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What if all the blossoms died a day earlier? Probably nothing.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
What if 500 helicopters landed in the blooms? Is that OK, if one is OK? Or did the "chosen one" land? The pilot should be busted.
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Slippery slope logic, because using reasoning and discretion is just too hard.
 
Tom-D said:
Why,, I'd bet they didn't harm a thing.
And much less of a foot print than a million fold stomping thru the posies
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The article sure made it seem like they ran from rangers, if the reporting is credible, they knew they screwed up. Why not stick around, sy hi to the rangers?

I've seen real damage from a police chopper that landed in a development I was associated with. Had to resurface a freshly paved cul-de-sac that one landed in. Not one house built yet, had to bring road crew back in.

And, yes, you and I agree that the foot traffic is probably more damaging. However, neither the people who ignore park requests to stay on trail and these two in the helicopter are showing respect to park grounds.
 
"Officials stressed that it's illegal to land in the poppy reserve" and "officials are furious"
...how would they have known this is "illegal" ?. I get ignorance of the law is not a real defense.. but I mean, really, how would you know you cannot do this?

The FAR nor the sectional (based on what I can tell) prohibit heli landings there.. and the sectional (if I'm looking in the right area) does not show this area to be some kind of special protected area

Ravioli said:
Textbook emergency landing, followed by resolving the issue and departing ASAP.
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thing is though, helicopters can be operated at different minimums than fixed wing:

upload_2019-3-27_16-38-50.png
 
^also, balloon people love landing just about anywhere they please, particularly private back yards #balloonlife
 
Life can get tough when people think humans are the parasite. I'm just amazed helicopters get off the ground at all.
 
Tom-D said:
Hell yes, every one should get to enjoy the flowers.
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So, everyone who goes to see them can pick a bouquet for themselves? How many will be left for the future?
 
Cooter said:
Slippery slope logic, because using reasoning and discretion is just too hard.
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When I was in the area last week, I should have driven my car through the field for a better look. How much harm could a single car do?:)
 
Cap'n Jack said:
When I was in the area last week, I should have driven my car through the field for a better look. How much harm could a single car do?:)
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In the grand scheme of short blossoming flowers, almost nothing detectable. But it would prove you were a jerk if you were to do that.
 
Salty said:
In the grand scheme of short blossoming flowers, almost nothing detectable. But it would prove you were a jerk if you were to do that.
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None of here are ecologists, so none of us can say the what the damage would be to those particular flowers with any authority. It may well be as slight as you claim. I also know that just a few hours west of me, I can see the Oregon trail, still visible after over 100 years because the trail was packed down enough that the prairie doesn't grow as well there. Aside from the poppies, there are also lupines and other flowers growing as well with the poppies and those may not be as resistant to trampling.

I agree with the second sentence, and likewise, landing a vehicle on the flowers proves those people jerks.
 
Sometimes I wonder if all the hooplah is more about "We're mad because those rich people with their aircraft can do things we can't"

After all, it's pretty plain that crowds going off trail causes a lot more damage than one helo landing.
And we must consider certain inequalities:
-no news story for each person laying in the flowers but we do have one for the helo.
-they are talking about charges for the helo landing but do they have similar and as frequent charges for errant pedestrians?

The helo landing, if for sight-seeing purposes, is not condoned by me.
However, the news and possibly the park reaction to it are excessive.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Sometimes I wonder if all the hooplah is more about "We're mad because those rich people with their aircraft can do things we can't"
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I'm sure that is part of it, a very large part of it. Probably most of the hooplah, in fact.

Let'sgoflying! said:
After all, it's pretty plain that crowds going off trail causes a lot more damage than one helo landing.
And we must consider certain inequalities:
-no news story for each person laying in the flowers but we do have one for the helo.
-they are talking about charges for the helo landing but do they have similar and as frequent charges for errant pedestrians?
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They did close at least one of the parks due to damage caused by the crowds. I did see news stories about pedestrians acting like jerks.

Let'sgoflying! said:
The helo landing, if for sight-seeing purposes, is not condoned by me.
However, the news and possibly the park reaction to it are excessive.
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Perhaps, but landing a helicopter in the flowers encourages people walking to go where they shouldn't..."Why can't I go there? I'm lighter than that helicopter!"
 
Cap'n Jack said:
When I was in the area last week, I should have driven my car through the field for a better look. How much harm could a single car do?:)
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More than a helicopter touching down for a few minutes, I would guess.

I’m all for preserving wildlife, it’s just nice when common sense isn’t jettisoned.
 
Cooter said:
More than a helicopter touching down for a few minutes, I would guess.

I’m all for preserving wildlife, it’s just nice when common sense isn’t jettisoned.
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Let's see...while I didn't see what make of helicopter in the article, let's assume an R44- it is very common and a fairly typical sized helicopter. It weighs 2500 lb, about the same as the car I was driving. So the pressure on the ground is similar

Let's talk common sense...
Given the very well known fear of low flying aircraft by the general public, is it common sense to land in a crowded area such as that park? It's legal, perhaps, but not particularly smart. I mentioned in another thread how nice the flowers looked from a few thousand feet up, I even included a picture that didn't do them justice. There was no reason to land at that park, they had a great view from 100 feet up. If all they did was hover, there would still be hooplah, but it would then be unjustified.

Those flowers were blooming in many places, maybe not quite as impressive as in those parks, but still very impressive- is it common sense to land in a crowded park, when there were many other nice areas to see the flowers? They had a helicopter- they could have quickly flown to a place with nice flowers, not crowded (thus less stress on the flowers as a whole), and even landed there. One event, such as a helicopter landing, doesn't do much harm, but couple that with all the other people doing stupid things and the park is severely damaged.

How much harm can one person walking through the field do? Now look at the reply above yours- landing a helicopter in the flowers encourages people walking to go where they shouldn't..."Why can't I go there? I'm lighter than that helicopter!"

I’m all for the freedom of flight, it’s just nice when common sense isn’t jettisoned.
 
Fiveslide said:
I've seen real damage from a police chopper that landed in a development I was associated with. Had to resurface a freshly paved cul-de-sac that one landed in. Not one house built yet, had to bring road crew back in.
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Either the concrete was still wet or pretty crappy, sounds like the crew needed to come back anyway.
 
Blatham489 said:
Either the concrete was still wet or pretty crappy, sounds like the crew needed to come back anyway.
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It was really fresh asphalt, day or two old at most, on a hot day. Gear on the helicopter sunk into it. They did find a huge marijuana patch that they landed to check out. I was there, it was a pad graded subdivision, they should have landed on one of the lots.
 
So what was your point? It's perfectly fine to land a helicopter on an area that is already stressed?

(reply to post #27)
 
Cap'n Jack said:
So what was your point? It's perfectly fine to land a helicopter on an area that is already stressed?

(reply to post #27)
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My point is that slippery slope logic short circuits sound reasoning. And frequently leads to absurdity. 500 helicopters landing to pick up flowers is not a reasonable basis in advocating for punishing the pilot.
 
Cooter said:
My point is that slippery slope logic short circuits sound reasoning. And frequently leads to absurdity. 500 helicopters landing to pick up flowers is not a reasonable basis in advocating for punishing the pilot.
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I didn't make that comment.

But is still seems as if you think landing a helicopter in an area already stressed by fools, many of which are anti-aviation, is a good idea. Sound reasoning suggests either not landing, or going somewhere else where they won't add to the damage caused by said fools and in an area more friendly for the landing. I never said anything about punishing the pilot, merely landing there wasn't a good idea for many reasons.
 
I know. You responded to my initial comment and I answered your question.

Can you point to anything I said that suggests I think landing in the field was a good idea? I don’t know the pilot and I have no idea why he landed there. I’m just not concerned that it will now be regarded as an open airfield with hundreds of pilots showing up to test it out. If that does happen, I’m sure it can be rather easily stopped.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I didn't make that comment.

But is still seems as if you think landing a helicopter in an area already stressed by fools, many of which are anti-aviation, is a good idea. Sound reasoning suggests either not landing, or going somewhere else where they won't add to the damage caused by said fools and in an area more friendly for the landing. I never said anything about punishing the pilot, merely landing there wasn't a good idea for many reasons.
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No offense but you are from Nebraska, not local.

This is happening in Temecula, the last time this many people went to Temecula was when it made the Meth capital of the US. These are Poppy flowers, not some ultra rare and delicate ecosystem. It's a native weed that is in superbloom due to all the rain we have had, that's it. Even in the draught they bloomed. 2 years ago those same hills were on fire, no one cared, and yet today it is being reported as a ultra sensitive eco system. No, not it is not.

They will be there next year, and the next year and then every year after until they either build houses, the homeless move in or the burn down again to fire.
 
Cooter said:
I know. You responded to my initial comment and I answered your question.

Can you point to anything I said that suggests I think landing in the field was a good idea? I don’t know the pilot and I have no idea why he landed there. I’m just not concerned that it will now be regarded as an open airfield with hundreds of pilots showing up to test it out. If that does happen, I’m sure it can be rather easily stopped.
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The continued discussion suggests that maybe you thought it is a good idea to land in that fashion. I'm attempting to apply some thought to the situation, but the replies to my posts suggests that isn't being acknowledged. My posts indicate it wasn't a great idea to land at that location, at that time, and perhaps we are in agreement. I did say if s/he landed elsewhere or merely hovered, there wouldn't be an issue (to me).
 
Jamie Kirk said:
No offense but you are from Nebraska, not local.
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Not sure what difference that makes, but I know that Antelope Valley, where the helicopter landed, is not Temecula. Given California traffic, probably 2 or 3 days drive between them :). In Nebraska, it would only be an hour drive, maybe.

Jamie Kirk said:
This is happening in Temecula, the last time this many people went to Temecula was when it made the Meth capital of the US. These are Poppy flowers, not some ultra rare and delicate ecosystem. It's a native weed that is in superbloom due to all the rain we have had, that's it. Even in the draught they bloomed. 2 years ago those same hills were on fire, no one cared, and yet today it is being reported as a ultra sensitive eco system. No, not it is not.

They will be there next year, and the next year and then every year after until they either build houses, the homeless move in or the burn down again to fire.
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Native plant, unless it grows in your garden and you don't wish it to do so. I'm not sure of your point about meth- this poppy doesn't produce narcotics. Certainly not meth. So no one went to the fields to harvest the poppies for their drugs.

While they aren't endangered, their range is being decreased by non native plants, such as mustard. People said the same thing about passenger pigeons....they will be there next year, and the year after...
Did the fires occur in the same place? This link (with map) suggests otherwise: https://patch.com/california/temecula/ca-fires-671-000-acres-burned-thousands-forced-flee-homes

Are you saying it is a good idea to land a helicopter in a park like that?
 
This reminds me of the old cow fart discussions. There's ignorance and stupidity, and stupid you can't fix. Who came up with that "catchy" little Super Bloom label? Hilarious. It's nothing more than a bunch of wild flowers blooming because they finally got a little water. Happens every spring with the bluebonnets in Texas. Instead of focusing their attention on people picking, or stepping on a few of the billions and billions of blooms, the intelligent thing to do would be to warn about the critter hazards lurking in those blooms. The public should be made aware that rattlesnakes don't always rattle any more. California. What can you say?
 
Art Rose said:
This reminds me of the old cow fart discussions. There's ignorance and stupidity, and stupid you can't fix. Who came up with that "catchy" little Super Bloom label? Hilarious. It's nothing more than a bunch of wild flowers blooming because they finally got a little water. Happens every spring with the bluebonnets in Texas. Instead of focusing their attention on people picking, or stepping on a few of the billions and billions of blooms, the intelligent thing to do would be to warn about the critter hazards lurking in those blooms. The public should be made aware that rattlesnakes don't always rattle any more. California. What can you say?
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It's all about selling ads.
 
I missed the part about exactly what law was broken.
 
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