Where are my pilot reports?!

pilot_joe

pilot_joe

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pilot_joe
So, I've gotten into the habit of giving a PIREP any time I fly to the local practice area. It really helps out the other instructors, especially when the conditions are iffy.

Anyway, yesterday was an especially cloudy day. A lot of our instructors didn't know where exactly to do their airwork at. So to help out, I gave about two reports to ATC in the span of a 2 to 3 hour flight.

Today, out of pure curiosity, I wanted to see the reports on the adds website. Would you look at that?... none of my reports got into the system! (and yeah, I did make sure it would show the reports given in the last 36 hours)

It would have helped out a lot of people in my home airport! What gives?! Any clue why they didn't show up?
 
I'd kinda like to know as well, simply because it seems like hardly any PIREPs ever make it to a place where they'd be useful.
 
I've had some never make it, seems like when ATC is busy unless its a major PIREP, like freezing rain or LLWS, it doesn't always make it.
 
James331 said:
I've had some never make it, seems like when ATC is busy and it's not a major PIREP, like freezing rain or LLWS, it doesn't always make it.
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Its a shame. I had a couple of friends that had to weather their activities because they didn't know the tops of a cloud deck at 1200'... Something that I told ATC about.
 
PIREPs given to ATC rarely make it into the PIREP system. Call up the AFSS next time.
 
Depends on what your PIREP is. They're not going to relay to FSS just anything. Only those "operationally significant."
 
Velocity173 said:
Depends on what your PIREP is. They're not going to relay to FSS just anything. Only those "operationally significant."
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Which is very little. Their job isn't weather. Their job is separation of traffic and safety.

A PIREP to AFSS will get into the system. One given to ATC is a total crap shoot. It's just not the correct place to input the information. And modern pilots are way out of the habit of talking to "Radio".

Here's an interesting thing to do if you've only learned to fly since the advent of mobile internet... Plan and complete a cross country flight using nothing but AFSS as your official weather source. We'll even let you use the LockMart website, but that didn't exist back when I started flying.

You've got a summer afternoon with the chance of isolated severe thunderstorms enroute and at the destination, and a 500 mile trip to accomplish safely. You can look once at the maps on the ground and the rest, you grab a radio and talk to a briefer enroute as needed.

We did it all the time back when I started. PIREPs were solicited and appreciated by the FSS you were speaking with. "We'd like a frequency change to check weather and we'll report back up" is a lost phrase on Center frequencies.
 
Generally I've found that my PIREPs such as icing, turbulence, LLWS and others that could potentially be hazardous to other aircraft show up.
 
I was under the understanding that official PIREPS needed to go to FSS to get into the "system" and that PIREPS to ATC were merely FYI info that was used only amongst the controllers and other pilots talking to ATC if they asked.
 
ATC is required to type up PIREPs that meet a certain criteria. The obvious is icing conditions, LLWS and anything Moderate turbulence or greater. Also, in the Center environment, we have to get PIREPs when the forecast calls for ceilings to be FL050 and below. I would've added in the PIREP that you had buddies on the ground looking for the PIREP so the controller knows to type it in (workload permitting or he could have the supervisor type it up). The controller might have just thought you were giving them a heads up on the conditions. When typed up, it then goes to the meteorologist who then disseminates it.
 
Also helps to add "approach, airplane 1232, got a PIREP for you....."
 
Shawn said:
I was under the understanding that official PIREPS needed to go to FSS to get into the "system" and that PIREPS to ATC were merely FYI info that was used only amongst the controllers and other pilots talking to ATC if they asked.
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Depends. Terminal facilities share amoungst themselves but are also required to send it up to AFSS if it's significant. Sent a few myself to Macon AFSS back in the day. ARTCCs submit to a separate weather observer.
 
If you ever PHONE your weather briefing, you will be asked to provide PIREPs to FSS. Not Approach or Center.

Having said that, I've had Tower ask for tops when arriving on an instrument flight.
 
My brain is on 'weekend-mode' so I might be a little slower than usual, but I'm pretty sure this thing says FSS no longer takes PIREPs: http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/2016-01-28_N_JO_7110.705.pdf

So you give them to center, or approach (whoever is less busy), as per that FAA notice.

So... ATC/FSS wants PIREPs... but they won't forward them unless they're urgent... Yet, they still encourage you to give pireps.
So only bother with pireps if the turbulence flips my airplane upside-down? haha
 
I've had a tower ask for the bases and tops on departure. Of course, I was handed off to departure before I was on top. I asked departure to let me go back to tower for a second once I did make it on top.
 
I believe that change just eliminated 122.0. You can still give PIREPS to whoever your "Radio" is.
 
jordane93 said:
Generally I've found that my PIREPs such as icing, turbulence, LLWS and others that could potentially be hazardous to other aircraft show up.
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This. Bases and tops reports don't seem to show up too often in the PIREPS which are disseminated even though ATC asks for them on occasion.
 
Tearing down a system that worked for a system that doesn't, is so common in my industry, I see it clearly when other industries do it.

Looks all too familiar. And someone somewhere is patting themselves on the back for it all.
 
I've given PIREPS for turbulence to ATC tower controllers a few times this year, and they've all shown up in the system.
 
2-6-3 of the controllers handbook, jo 7110.65 has the list of significant weather that is supposed to forwarded to FSS. Easy to find and quick to download. A 7110.65 search will do it. Does it actually get forwarded all of the time, no.
 
flyingron said:
I've had a tower ask for the bases and tops on departure. Of course, I was handed off to departure before I was on top. I asked departure to let me go back to tower for a second once I did make it on top.
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Most likely not necessary to go through that frequency change. Simply reporting it to departures and saying tower wanted to know will cover it.
 
denverpilot said:
Tearing down a system that worked for a system that doesn't, is so common in my industry, I see it clearly when other industries do it.

Looks all too familiar. And someone somewhere is patting themselves on the back for it all.
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And each other. Heavy Patting.
 
Velocity173 said:
Depends. Terminal facilities share amoungst themselves but are also required to send it up to AFSS if it's significant. Sent a few myself to Macon AFSS back in the day. ARTCCs submit to a separate weather observer.
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Yeah. Centers have weather units in the building. I think that got implemented after the Southern Air accident
 
denverpilot said:
Tearing down a system that worked for a system that doesn't, is so common in my industry, I see it clearly when other industries do it.

Looks all too familiar. And someone somewhere is patting themselves on the back for it all.
Click to expand...
Who is tearing down a system? Or asking for it to be torn down? It seems as if this has been the way PIREPS have been handled forever. Only the ones deemed important make it to the place where they are disseminated to everyone. Otherwise you would have pages of them, especially turbulence reports from high altitude sectors. Airlines are constantly giving them, even for light turbulence.
 
Everskyward said:
?..........Airlines are constantly giving them, even for light turbulence.
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Yeah. That's not so much about getting a PIREP issued to the system as it is about real time sharing of the conditions right now. "Any ride reports" is a common request. "How's the ride on the climb/descent." They're talking to each other, through the controller, about what's happening now.
 
Other thoughts on PIREPS. The weather don't got to be bad for them to be valuable. The weather guessers like them to help with forecasting. In this day and age of GPS, real time exact winds aloft reports are very valuable. The air is smooth is kinda nice to know if you're wondering about the ride. Dial up 122.whatever and give one sometime. Review the format, or better yet put it on the ole knee pad so the Radio dude don't gotta play 20 questions with you. They just take a few seconds if done correctly
 
pilot_joe said:
So, I've gotten into the habit of giving a PIREP any time I fly to the local practice area. It really helps out the other instructors, especially when the conditions are iffy.

Anyway, yesterday was an especially cloudy day. A lot of our instructors didn't know where exactly to do their airwork at. So to help out, I gave about two reports to ATC in the span of a 2 to 3 hour flight.

Today, out of pure curiosity, I wanted to see the reports on the adds website. Would you look at that?... none of my reports got into the system! (and yeah, I did make sure it would show the reports given in the last 36 hours)

It would have helped out a lot of people in my home airport! What gives?! Any clue why they didn't show up?
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I left ATC almost three years ago so things could be different now but given the pace of government I doubt it.

Working in the TRACON, putting a PIREP in to the system required a phone call to FSS. FSS does not answer phone calls from ATC any faster than from pilots. If there was someone nearby not working a position who could call it in, no problem. If no spare body I had to make the call myself. If I had a significant amount of traffic on frequency I wouldn't even make the attempt. If I had little or no traffic I'd call FSS. It wasn't unusual for an aircraft to call me while I was waiting for FSS to answer, I'd respond to that aircraft, FSS would answer the phone and hear the conversation between me and the airplane, and hang up. I'm confident a lot of PIREPs die that way.

It didn't have to be like that. I could roll my chair about a foot to my right and be directly in front of a computer with FAA intranet access. I should have been able to enter all the data via the intranet. If an airplane happens to call during the entry just stop, take care of that airplane, then finish the entry. No PIREP should ever have to die needlessly.
 
Everskyward said:
Who is tearing down a system? Or asking for it to be torn down? It seems as if this has been the way PIREPS have been handled forever. Only the ones deemed important make it to the place where they are disseminated to everyone. Otherwise you would have pages of them, especially turbulence reports from high altitude sectors. Airlines are constantly giving them, even for light turbulence.
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The people making folks go thru ATC to report them in that memo above. As Stephen says, ATC doesn't and hasn't ever had a very good way to pass those to FSS.

Who has pages to read anymore? Put them on a map on a device and click on them to see the ones of interest along the route of flight, filter out stuff 20,000' above you that you don't care about. This is all user display stuff in the modern world. Text lists of PIREPs are 60's teletype tech.

And we don't already have this problem with FDC NOTAMs and Tower/Obstacle NOTAMs anyway?

You learn to skim intelligently. Those systems are so inefficient and busted nobody reads it all more than once in a while.

I'll take a PIREP in the GPS world over some silly new FlightCheck notice that the VOR needle wiggles when you're south of Denver behind a ridgeline from a VOR. That falls into the category of DUH. It's effing VHF and line of sight for effs sake. Pilots apparently got stupider about how their gear works in the last 30 years?

Irony? They give the outage location in VOR radial degrees. ROFLMAO. So how am I supposed to know if I'm there if the VOR doesn't work there? Hehehehe. So stupid. 30 pages of crap to say "VHF never went through dirt very well and we never bothered to NOTAM it before, because you weren't a retard and you knew this."

Huh. Analog VHF suffered from multipath and terrain reflections. Who knew? Hahaha. I need at least 30 pages of NOTAMs to remind me.
 
denverpilot said:
The people making folks go thru ATC to report them in that memo above. As Stephen says, ATC doesn't and hasn't ever had a very good way to pass those to FSS.
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Oh, ok. I can't remember the last time I gave a PIREP to a FSS. I give them to ATC.
 
Well that's a shame with PIREPs dying so easily.

Like honestly, would it be that hard to develop some method for ATC to directly submit pireps via some king of website.
Make it intuitive and efficient enough that any controller can enter one in a few seconds.

But, I've noticed that the FAA is slow as molasses when it comes to adopting anything near to current technology... not to mention new technology. Shame really.
 
denverpilot said:
Tearing down a system that worked for a system that doesn't, is so common in my industry, I see it clearly when other industries do it.

Looks all too familiar. And someone somewhere is patting themselves on the back for it all.
Click to expand...
In mine, we're given better systems... but people just do it plain wrong, so the new system doesn't act anything close to better.
 
Seems to me this fancy tech in so many cockpits should be doing this for us: with a few simple notations to a G430 page, and a few presses of the button, pireps should be entirely digitized. Many parameters could be collected and reported entirely automatically, creating a wealth of data. But alas I can imagine the bureaucracy to authorize such a system.
 
denverpilot said:
PIREPs given to ATC rarely make it into the PIREP system. Call up the AFSS next time.
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Good luck ....

ircphoenix said:
I believe that change just eliminated 122.0. You can still give PIREPS to whoever your "Radio" is.
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I fly long XC across Texas quite often. I used to give multiple PIREPS per leg about one per hour. Now that 122.0 is eliminated, I have to try using whichever FSS frequency is nearby, which is usually a miss (ours has been down in the El Paso area for over a month). After October, I used to just use the old 122 frequency anyway, and occasionally they'd reply with a frequency to try (usually no response though).

I hear most PIREPS going through ATC now and was once given a climb to avoid moderate TB (I had tried most of the altitudes except the one proposed, which was a good one).
 
I've only ever given PIREPS when prompted by ATC.
 
pilot_joe said:
Well that's a shame with PIREPs dying so easily.

Like honestly, would it be that hard to develop some method for ATC to directly submit pireps via some king of website.
Make it intuitive and efficient enough that any controller can enter one in a few seconds.

But, I've noticed that the FAA is slow as molasses when it comes to adopting anything near to current technology... not to mention new technology. Shame really.
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In the ARTCC environment every sector has a touch screen that has the ability to forward a pilot report on to the meteorologist. It generally takes only a few seconds to a minute to enter. Depending on how busy the controller is and the type of PIREP, then that would dictate if it gets entered at the sector. I don't know how tower and approaches get the PIREP entered but if I had to call FSS, then only the required PIREPs would be entered. FSS just takes way too long.
 
We used to dial AFSS directly on approach. Really the flight data guy did it an not approach. I heard now they type it into a database and AFSS extracts the PIREPs they need from it.
 
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