Where am I on the airport?

avongil

avongil

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
259
Location
Easton, PA
Display Name
Display name:
AG
I always have trouble talking the talk, but I am getting far better. Reporting my current location is a common stumbling point.
I have tried to research this but cannot come up with a concrete answer.

#1: Before Taking Off
The active runway is 24. The taxiway that leads to it is C.
I say:
"Allentown Tower, Cessna Six Five Niner Six Papa, Two-Four at Charlie, ready for take off.

#2: After Landing
The active runway is 24. The taxiway that I was told to pull off onto is B.
"Allentown Ground, Cessna Six Five Niner Six Papa, Bravo at Two-Four, Taxi to hangar Five"

#3: In the air
2 miles south west of XXX airport etc.. I think that one is no issue.

#4: any other tips please!

Thanks!



So the question is: When stating your location is it: Runway/taxiway for departing and Taxiway/Runway for arrival? Is there some kind of standard???
 
I think you are doing fine.
Maybe there is something in the AIM.
I don't include the taxiway unless it is an intersection takeoff, then you must include it.
end of rwy takeoff
xx Ground, N1234 ready to go rwy 24.
intersection takeoff
xx Ground, N1234 ready for takeoff rwy 24 at taxiway Mike.

After passing the hold short bars on landing
xx Ground, N1234 just off 24 on Charlie
 
avongil said:
I always have trouble talking the talk, but I am getting far better. Reporting my current location is a common stumbling point.
I have tried to research this but cannot come up with a concrete answer.

#1: Before Taking Off
The active runway is 24. The taxiway that leads to it is C.
I say:
"Allentown Tower, Cessna Six Five Niner Six Papa, Two-Four at Charlie, ready for take off.

#2: After Landing
The active runway is 24. The taxiway that I was told to pull off onto is B.
"Allentown Ground, Cessna Six Five Niner Six Papa, Bravo at Two-Four, Taxi to hangar Five"

#3: In the air
2 miles south west of XXX airport etc.. I think that one is no issue.

#4: any other tips please!

Thanks!



So the question is: When stating your location is it: Runway/taxiway for departing and Taxiway/Runway for arrival? Is there some kind of standard???
Click to expand...

I can't tell you what is right or wrong. I can only tell you what I do:

#1: Before Taking Off
ABC Tower, Cirrus 5MV holding short, two four

#2: After Landing
ABC Tower. 5MV at Hotel. Taxi to FBO

#3: In the air
Me: "ABC tower. 5MV"
Tower: "5MV go ahead"
Me: "5MV. 10 miles north. inbound. full stop."
Tower: "Oh you're a Cirrus. I will clear the area for you."
 
avongil said:
Reporting my current location is a common stumbling point.
Click to expand...

Six Papa holding short runway two-four ready for takeoff (assumes you gave your direction to clearance delivery already).
Six Papa exit left on Bravo, contact ground (or if tower does not say contact ground you must remain on tower frequency).
Six Papa 8 miles south-west at 8,500 inbound for landing with Zulu.
 
Last edited:
citizen5000 said:
Six Papa holding short runway two-four ready for takeoff (assumes you gave your direction to clearance delivery already).
Six Papa exit left on Bravo, contact ground (or if tower does not say contact ground you must remain on tower frequency).
Six Papa 8 miles south-west at 8,500 inbound for landing.
Click to expand...

Got spanked twice for switching radio. Whoops.

Inbound for landing. I like it...
 
avongil said:
Got spanked twice for switching radio. Whoops.

Inbound for landing. I like it...
Click to expand...
"landing" is all that is required to communicate your intention.
 
wait a sec. I say Landing with Foxtrot ... Or whatever the atis might be.
 
I think I am one of those guys that needs to push the mic button to talk. for some reason I cannot think before. It makes for some embarrassing moments.
 
avongil said:
When stating your location is it: Runway/taxiway for departing and Taxiway/Runway for arrival? Is there some kind of standard???
Click to expand...

Why you would do it differently for departure than arrival?
"Ready for takeoff runway 24 at Charlie."
"Clear of runway 24 at Bravo."

The AIM only specifies that you state your location if it's an intersection departure. The example given is: "Cleveland Tower, Apache Three Seven Two Two Papa, at the intersection of taxiway Oscar and runway two three right, ready for departure." Looking at the diagram from ABE I would not consider 24 at Charlie to be an intersection departure so you could leave it off.
 
The formalish jargon we use on the radio is helpful in that it allows quick concise communications that nobody has to spend much mental power decoding. That said, if you have something you need to tell them or ask them but you don't know what the cool pilot lingo is, just key your mic and talk like a normal human being.

Although you may get the rare grumpy controller(especially on a busy day) most of them are very helpful and are happy to provide whatever information they can or accommodate just about any reasonable legal request you might have. If the radio isn't busy, you can always just ask the guy "Hey, how would you prefer I phrased this next time?" I've heard people ask for sports scores and the daily lunch special over the radio before, so don't think think a valid operational question is going to be a problem.
 
dmspilot said:
How about "clear of".
Click to expand...

Saying "clear of" is definitely important in non-towered airports. I dislike when some say "clear of the active" at single runway non-towereds and prefer they say what runway they exited - "clear of three-four".

In towered airports the tower usually tells you to exit the runway at a given taxiway and if that taxiway crosses the runway they will say left or right and expect you to clear the runway when exiting onto the taxiway and then stopping to get a clearance from ground to proceed if they release you from their frequency. If they hold you they still expect you to clear the runway and stop and then say intentions in regard to where you want to go on the airport before being cleared to proceed.
 
I hear you. I am going to modify that, I like off of runway xx @ taxi. Then my brain will work less and that is a great thing in the airplane.

Edit - clear to off. oops.
 
Last edited:
I would know where you were from each of the examples you gave in your OP. So, I think you are doing fine. Like most pilots, I have small personal 'quirks' in the way I say things, but they are as much a matter of personal style as anything. For example, when I contact Ground after landing I will say, 'Clear the active at Bravo', if I am dealing with a single active runway, or 'Clear of XX at Bravo' if there is more than one active runway. But, honestly, if I say I am 'Clear of the active' runway, and I identify my taxiway location, that is all anyone else needs - i.e. that my aircraft is NOT on any active runway. When making contact as I approach an AP, I will say 'Landing ABC', rather than 'Inbound' (which I used to say). But, those are minor variations. From my perspective, you have what you need for effective communication. Like most of us, you probably want to continue to work on being as succinct as possible.
 
Thanks to all. It is fairly busy Monday through Saturday at ABE when I fly, so I just don't want to take too much radio time up.
 
Yeah, don't get hung up on order. As long as you give your position, you're fine. Even that isn't all that important on the local controller's end. Ground coordinates your position if it's an intersection. "Cessna nine six papa coming to you at charlie northbound departure."

Personally, I like to give specific type of landing. "Cessna niner six papa, five west, full stop with alpha."

Your format is fine though. Nothing really worth changing.
 
Just another terminology heads up, it is no longer "clear of" the runway, etc. The new jargon is "off of". According to the latest, the only time you should hear the word "clear", it should be in reference to "cleared to takeoff", or "cleared to land". Granted, I still catch myself saying it, just like "Position and hold" versus "Line up and wait".
 
Who you are, where you are, what you want to do. Generally this format works for every applicable radio transmission. There are exceptions.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Just another terminology heads up, it is no longer "clear of" the runway, etc. The new jargon is "off of". According to the latest, the only time you should hear the word "clear", it should be in reference to "cleared to takeoff", or "cleared to land". Granted, I still catch myself saying it, just like "Position and hold" versus "Line up and wait".
Click to expand...

Your assertion is not supported by the current AIM or P/CG, both of which use "clear of". The phrase "off of" does not appear in that context anywhere in either publication. Do you have a source to back up your claim?
 
cowman said:
The formalish jargon we use on the radio is helpful in that it allows quick concise communications that nobody has to spend much mental power decoding. That said, if you have something you need to tell them or ask them but you don't know what the cool pilot lingo is, just key your mic and talk like a normal human being.

Although you may get the rare grumpy controller(especially on a busy day) most of them are very helpful and are happy to provide whatever information they can or accommodate just about any reasonable legal request you might have. If the radio isn't busy, you can always just ask the guy "Hey, how would you prefer I phrased this next time?" I've heard people ask for sports scores and the daily lunch special over the radio before, so don't think think a valid operational question is going to be a problem.
Click to expand...
Good point. Even when moderately busy a bit of discussion has been well met when it meant clear communications in the future.
 
dmspilot said:
Your assertion is not supported by the current AIM or P/CG, both of which use "clear of". The phrase "off of" does not appear in that context anywhere in either publication. Do you have a source to back up your claim?
Click to expand...
Dunno about any sources but my experience has led me to use the word 'clear' only in a few circumstances such as landing, departure, and entry to bravo airspace....and in IFR clearances....I can understand why other folks would use it since crossing the line off of the runway is an important thing to communicate.
 
dmspilot said:
Your assertion is not supported by the current AIM or P/CG, both of which use "clear of". The phrase "off of" does not appear in that context anywhere in either publication. Do you have a source to back up your claim?
Click to expand...

I will agree, you are right as I can not find it anymore either. I remember it distinctly being new about the same time as the "Line up and wait", but maybe the FAA got enough push back on it and changed their mind. Unless someone's Google-Fu is any better.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I will agree, you are right as I can not find it anymore either. I remember it distinctly being new about the same time as the "Line up and wait", but maybe the FAA got enough push back on it and changed their mind. Unless someone's Google-Fu is any better.
Click to expand...

You're thinking of ground taxi phraseology. They don't use "cleared." Instead they use "proceed" or "taxi to." Reporting clear of a runway by a pilot is fine.
 
I think @SixPapaCharlie is the only Pilot I am aware of to have a KDTO Ground Controller text him an airport diagram marked with a big X and "YOU ARE HERE"
 
You're fine. Don't sweat it. Just practice it until you're comfy.

As long as it says who you're talking to, who you are, where you are, and what you want, you've done it.

The only thing I do differently is that I won't name a taxiway I'm holding short at, unless it's for an intersection takeoff. But your approach does no harm. I'll usually add my direction of departure, especially if it's busy, or if I'm IFR. Neither is truly necessary if it has already been said (it's on the strip).
 
You sound fine...here is my schtick:

#1: Before Taking Off
The active runway is 24. The taxiway that leads to it is C.
I say:
"Podunk Tower, Cessna Niner Six Papa, Holding short Two-Four ["at Charlie" only if intersection], ready for take off, VFR.

#2: After Landing
The active runway is 24. The taxiway that I was told to pull off onto is B.
"Podunk Ground, Cessna Niner Six Papa holding on Bravo, Taxi to hangar Five"

#3: In the air
"Podunk Tower, Cessna Six Five Niner Six Papa 10 miles south west with Foxtrot"

All just personal nuances but every example including yours all coveys the same thing in a perfectly acceptable way.
 
avongil said:
I always have trouble talking the talk, but I am getting far better. Reporting my current location is a common stumbling point.
I have tried to research this but cannot come up with a concrete answer.

#1: Before Taking Off
The active runway is 24. The taxiway that leads to it is C.
I say:
"Allentown Tower, Cessna Six Five Niner Six Papa, Two-Four at Charlie, ready for take off.

#2: After Landing
The active runway is 24. The taxiway that I was told to pull off onto is B.
"Allentown Ground, Cessna Six Five Niner Six Papa, Bravo at Two-Four, Taxi to hangar Five"

#3: In the air
2 miles south west of XXX airport etc.. I think that one is no issue.

#4: any other tips please!

Thanks!



So the question is: When stating your location is it: Runway/taxiway for departing and Taxiway/Runway for arrival? Is there some kind of standard???
Click to expand...

1
"Cessna nine six papa, ready to go 24 and Charlie"

Probably don't need to say tower since you're on the tower freq.

2
"Cessna nine six papa, bravo for hangar five"

3
What you said

4
Leave the 1 off the freqs, they all start with 1, don't waste the time and mental ram
35.25 etc
 
avongil said:
I always have trouble talking the talk, but I am getting far better. Reporting my current location is a common stumbling point.
I have tried to research this but cannot come up with a concrete answer.

#1: Before Taking Off
The active runway is 24. The taxiway that leads to it is C.
I say:
"Allentown Tower, Cessna Six Five Niner Six Papa, Two-Four at Charlie, ready for take off.

#2: After Landing
The active runway is 24. The taxiway that I was told to pull off onto is B.
"Allentown Ground, Cessna Six Five Niner Six Papa, Bravo at Two-Four, Taxi to hangar Five"

#3: In the air
2 miles south west of XXX airport etc.. I think that one is no issue.

#4: any other tips please!

Thanks!



So the question is: When stating your location is it: Runway/taxiway for departing and Taxiway/Runway for arrival? Is there some kind of standard???
Click to expand...


Your all good.a lot of people overthink radio communication, and then you have the ones that want to sound like a professional pilot out of a movie. Those guys usually sound like d bags.
 
JimNtexas said:
As long as you don't say 'with you' your fine.
Click to expand...

^^ * you're. ;-)

avongil said:
I always have trouble talking the talk, but I am getting far better. Reporting my current location is a common stumbling point.
I have tried to research this but cannot come up with a concrete answer.

#1: Before Taking Off
The active runway is 24. The taxiway that leads to it is C.
I say:
"Allentown Tower, Cessna Six Five Niner Six Papa, Two-Four at Charlie, ready for take off.
Click to expand...

I'd go with :

"x Tower, Cessna xxxxx taxi for takeoff with November short of Charlie XXX" assuming the Charlie intersections are numbered. Don't need the runway at all, they're going to assign it anyway unless you have a special request.

"Cessna xxxxx, Taxi to Runway 24 via Charlie." is what you're going to get. If you leave off the ATIS you're going to get, "Confirm you have Information November?"

avongil said:
#2: After Landing
The active runway is 24. The taxiway that I was told to pull off onto is B.
"Allentown Ground, Cessna Six Five Niner Six Papa, Bravo at Two-Four, Taxi to hangar Five"
Click to expand...

Again, ground controller doesn't care what runway you came off of, if the taxiway intersections are numbered it would be...

"Ground, Cessna xxxxx, at Alpha Eight taxi to area Hotel".

There usually is an exact place you can give and there's usually not any other place named that.

avongil said:
#3: In the air
2 miles south west of XXX airport etc.. I think that one is no issue.
Click to expand...

Other than the ATIS again, that's fine.

"Tower, Cessna xxxxx, ten southeast, landing, with November."

avongil said:
#4: any other tips please!

Thanks!



So the question is: When stating your location is it: Runway/taxiway for departing and Taxiway/Runway for arrival? Is there some kind of standard???
Click to expand...

Taxi request, you don't have to ask for a runway at all. You already know which runways they might assign from the ATIS and they'll assign them. Only if you can't accept one of them would you state it.

Otherwise ground ops are just from one taxi location to another, or "runway xxx" which is just head on over and get in line at the hold short line. No need to state a runway at all.

At my home 'drone you don't even call the tower. Ground sequences aircraft to the hold line only after they get "runup complete" after putting them in a designated and charted runup area first which is marked not to re-enter the taxiway without a new taxi clearance to the runway.

Then it's, "Taxi to Runway X" and then, "Monitor Tower" as in, don't call us, we'll call you.

All of that plus a request for VFR direction of flight is all on the ATIS.
 
Taxiway names alone are NOT always unique positions, especially with close parallel runways.

For instance, if I land at KSJC and tell Ground I'm on D and request a taxi to FSDO, do they have to taxi me across the runways or not?
 
MAKG1 said:
Taxiway names alone are NOT always unique positions, especially with close parallel runways.

For instance, if I land at KSJC and tell Ground I'm on D and request a taxi to FSDO, do they have to taxi me across the runways or not?
Click to expand...

I was going to say, they would want to know where on a given taxiway you are, particularly if it's long. Usually parking areas are in named movement areas, and normally, "the ramp" is the place designated for transient parking. At my home field, there are a lot of different ramps, and if you are based there, you at least know what yours is called. At most other places I just ask to go to "the ramp" if I'm not going to a specific FBO.
 
denverpilot said:
Not at all. IF... if the ground location isn't vague, there is no need to mention the runway at all.
Click to expand...

The dude asked what he should say when he was ready for takeoff. You replied with a suggest on what to say when requesting to taxi to the runway. He is already there.

Additionally, his airport does not have numbered taxiways so your suggestion is not relevant.
 
dmspilot said:
The dude asked what he should say when he was ready for takeoff. You replied with a suggest on what to say when requesting to taxi to the runway. He is already there.

Additionally, his airport does not have numbered taxiways so your suggestion is not relevant.
Click to expand...

I don't know how you get that he was only asking about takeoff clearance when he clearly had three categories, "Before Takeoff", "After Landing", and "In The Air", but if I misread it because he had three very specific examples of what places he wanted assistance with radio phraseology at... hmm. I usually don't ask for takeoff clearances "After Landing", or "In The Air".

Anyway, didn't look up his airport and never said all airports have numbered taxiways. Also haven't run into any ground controllers yet who didn't know how to look out their windows and see where an aircraft is, if there is any way the pilot's stated location isn't clear. No big deal. If they can't figure it out, they'll ask. Not rocket science.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top