When / where to contact the tower?

[Daleandee]

Geez, I try to discuss options to best coordinate that flight with ATC and I get accused of "needing remedial training", "having an agenda", and "not wanting to comply with the rules."

Look at the bright side ... at least you didn't lose your medical over a tattoo ...

 

[noahfong]

I would just stay in the pattern until I make contact.

 

[WannFly]

Airports like these often have special local rules that are not published anywhere. for example taking off D54 below you will be in the D often. KFAR knows that and they have an unwritten rule to contact tower directly after take off. you can get the ATIS from ground. you can usually reach the tower at 300-400 feet AGL. they do not like calls from ground, ask me how i know it

 

[bluerooster]

Depart rwy 24, fly runway heading for a mile or two while climbing to 2601' then turn right to your destination. You'll be clear of D, and will not need to worry about calling them. And only add a couple minutes to time enroute.

 

[Dana]

for example taking off D54 below you will be in the D often. KFAR knows that and they have an unwritten rule to contact tower directly after take off.

It's in the AIM: Departures from... a satellite airport without an operating control tower. Two‐way radio communications must be established as soon as practicable after departing with the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the Class D airspace as soon as practicable after departing."

Depart rwy 24, fly runway heading for a mile or two while climbing to 2601' then turn right to your destination. You'll be clear of D, and will not need to worry about calling them. And only add a couple minutes to time enroute.

You didn't read my original post. Of course I could do that, but the whole point in this situation was wanting to make a low altitude VFR transition and how to handle it, not go a couple of miles out to sea or climb high and pass over the class D.

 

[Brad Z]

Airports like these often have special local rules that are not published anywhere. for example taking off D54 below you will be in the D often. KFAR knows that and they have an unwritten rule to contact tower directly after take off. you can get the ATIS from ground. you can usually reach the tower at 300-400 feet AGL. they do not like calls from ground, ask me how i know it

View attachment 102464

14 CFR 91.129(c)(2)(ii)

 

[David Megginson]

I would call them from the ground, they will hear you.

+1

My home airport CYRO is class G with CYND's MF airspace right next to it (a bit like class D, but with an FSS rather than a tower). Calling from the ground to get a squawk code for transitioning their airspace is SOP, because once you've in the air, they might be too busy with other calls to establish 2-way communication before you're busting their airspace, and there's not a lot of room to orbit in our class G without messing up the circuit for everyone else.

 

[RussR]

@Dana , two points:

1) Several people have given you reasonable options about how to handle this. You have rejected most of them because they are not what you want to do. But the truth is that you can't enter the Class D without 2-way communication. So you need to avoid it until you do. In this situation, with one radio, I would probably try to contact them on the ground, or on the phone, and just tell them what's up.

I often fly out of HSD, shown below. Many times I want to go east or southeast off runway 18. But because of the Class D, I can't, not immediately anyway. So I make a big right turn, climbing, and usually go around the north side until getting in touch with ATC. It's a few miles out of my way, but hey, too bad, that's the rules.



2) We often assume that whatever we're doing, if it's the least bit unusual, is the first time anybody's ever done something. But that's usually not the case. I'm pretty sure that people departing 1B2 and wanting to head westbound over the shore is a daily, routine occurrence for MVY tower. They probably see it all day long. They probably have their own preferred way to handle it - just call them on the phone and see what they have to say. Heck, there might be something posted on the wall in the FBO at MVY or 1B2.

Two examples I know of in Wichita are at 71K and AAO - 71K being just a couple miles east of ICT in the Class C and AAO where on takeoff to the south you're immediately in two Class D's and practically on final for 3 airports, including an Air Force base. Both these airports have traffic routinely operating out there without a problem, nothing is particularly unique for ATC, and they have procedures posted in the FBO.

 

[Dana]

Several people have given you reasonable options about how to handle this. You have rejected most of them because they are not what you want to do. But the truth is that you can't enter the Class D without 2-way communication. So you need to avoid it until you do. In this situation, with one radio, I would probably try to contact them on the ground, or on the phone, and just tell them what's up.

Not quite. Everybody is making it like I'm trying to avoid following the rules, which is not the case; I'm fully aware that I need to establish communications before entering the class D. Or they're proposing alternate routes, which defeats my purpose. Thus my original question in my original post, which was exactly what you and others have suggested, i.e. "Can I contact them before taking off from Katama?". For which the answer seems to be "maybe".

"Vineyard tower, experimental 1234 on the ground at Katama, I'd like to make a right turnout after departure from 21 and make a VFR transition to the west along the shoreline below 1000', in a slow mover, negative transponder."

 

[Brad W]

ok...this thread has been going on more than long enough for you or someone to call the tower on a landline and ask. I'd love to read what the local practice really is...

 

[PaulS]

Not quite. Everybody is making it like I'm trying to avoid following the rules, which is not the case; I'm fully aware that I need to establish communications before entering the class D. Or they're proposing alternate routes, which defeats my purpose. Thus my original question in my original post, which was exactly what you and others have suggested, i.e. "Can I contact them before taking off from Katama?". For which the answer seems to be "maybe".

"Vineyard tower, experimental 1234 on the ground at Katama, I'd like to make a right turnout after departure from 21 and make a VFR transition to the west along the shoreline below 1000', in a slow mover, negative transponder."

If you want to call them from the ground, call them from the ground. I used to worry about irritating controllers with stuff like this, but I don't worry about it anymore. Give it a try, if it works great, if not, call them in the air. If the controller gets snitty with you, ignore them, tell them thanks for the help.

 

[Dana]

ok...this thread has been going on more than long enough for you or someone to call the tower on a landline and ask. I'd love to read what the local practice really is...

Yup. But that's POA. And in five years somebody will resurrect this thread to post about their experiences at some other airport.

 

[NoHeat]

The AF/D has a phone number for the airport manager. I’d try that.

A comment on ForeFlight mentioned success in calling the tower while on upwind, presumably immediately after takeoff.

Indeed, chart appears to show that a runway heading, on either end of the longest runway, would keep you adequately out of Class D on takeoff, while calling the tower.

 

[C-1 PILOT]

To the OP, I’ve v flown that many times heading back to Block Island and Long Island. The 5 mile ring around MVY is only 1.6 miles from the shoreline. Take off and make your turnouts to the right, gain altitude and call if you like for clearance or just continue on. This ain’t brain or rocket science my friend. And, unless we get an Indian summer ( are we allowed to say that) 1B2 will be a ghost town, if it isn’t already.

 

[Rgbeard]

Who’s got the dead horse?

I have a club.

 

[coma24]

As a backup to C-1 Pilot's post, I've departed from Katama and transitioned the Delta along the shoreline. Plenty of time to call the Delta prior to entry. Calling airport manager or trying to call on the ground is absolutely overkill. This is standard Class Delta procedure, and there is ample time to make the call or maneuver while clear of the Delta if the frequency is busy.

*kicks horse* Stay down, buddy. Stay down.

 

[coma24]

Since I don't think it's been mentioned yet, if anyone's curious as to why MVY tower isn't likely to grant you any specific permission while you're on the ground at Katama, it's because until you're a known quantity, in the air and at a known location, there just isn't a whole lot to say other than "remain outside the Delta, advise when airborne..."

It may seem like you're doing a favor by calling early, but there is a plausible sequence of events that could occur where giving you carte blanche to transition the shoreline without any further calls at some unknown point in the future would cause issues with other traffic. What if you abort the takeoff, deal with an issue, then actually takeoff 20 minutes later? Doubtful, but technically possible. As a result, they're very likely to simply ask you to call airborne at which point they'll handle your request in real time based on known traffic.

 

[mandm]

If I wanted to depart from Katama (1B2) and then make a VFR transition through the MVY class D westbound along the shoreline at or below 1000' before turning NW toward Cuttyhunk and the mainland, where and when should I contact the MVY tower? The D starts only 1/2 mile from the airport so I'd likely be inside it before getting a response, Heading east first to contact them only to turn around and dive back down through the Katama traffic pattern seems inadvisable, and I don't want to head out to sea at low altitude either... nor do I want to switch from Katama CTAF to MVY tower while still in the pattern.

Can I contact them before taking off from Katama? Would they even hear me from the ground 5 miles away?

View attachment 102277

Those are basically touching, I have a similar dilemma out of KUGN flying north there is KENW. I request frequency change approval from KUGN tower (you could mention this before taking off that you need to call so and so right away) and contact KENW tower letting them know that I just departed. It can be overwhelming at first to add the additional task, remember to firstly fly the airplane. If you mess it up, be humble and you’ll be fine. Alternatively you can climb above their airspace or go around until you have transition approval. Usually tower will respond ASAP. Or file an IFR flight plan then you don’t have to worry about calling but they may route you wherever they want.

 

[mandm]

Yup. But that's POA. And in five years somebody will resurrect this thread to post about their experiences at some other airport.

Policies and norms do change, so it’s good to revive old topics too!

 

[Star Keeper]

So at the airport I fly out of its set up in such a way as to not be relevant at all to this situation. But I was feeling left out as the only one not to chime in so there.