When to buy your own plane?

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mtnflyr

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mtnflyr
My rental rates right now are 700 a month for a membership, plus 160 per hour wet for a 2015 cirrus sr20 every option checked aircraft. It's nice to fly. Very well maintained, the g1000 Pfd/mfd is seriously awesome to use. I really do feel like my money is paying for a high quality aircraft.

But.....

It is a lot of money. 20 hours of flying per month plus membership is four thousand bucks. That's a lot for a ballistic pull up bar.

I can buy a Cessna 182p, hanger,insurance, maintenance, annual, petrol, loan.....and I bet 2500 dollars a month would pay for all that plus some..... Am I stupid? Granted the c182p would have a purchase price of around 60k.

I'm a young pilot. I have 30 hours in aircraft that only fly because they vibrate so much the earth has repelled them (helicopters) and 45 hours in sensible fixed wing.

My mission is to have fun, fly to areas and buy expensive cheeseburgers, get ifr rated, commercial, introduce as many people I can to GA, Become a CFI. Most importantly make sure myself and everyone has a lot of fun.
 
Because this is my play ground....

Crossing the Sierras is literally a right of passage. When anyone up here does a solo xc, we first go east that has very few mountain ranges to deal with, but for out last solo xc we cross the Sierras at least twice to get our ticket. Once going west, once going east.

This week truckee has been a high of 8600 density altitude. The airport off the wingtip is KMEV, and has probably averaged 7400 DA this week.

When I flew to napa a few months back I couldn't believe the performance we got. Something about more air means more power I guess :)
 

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For what you are currently paying for the SR20 you will never be able to own and operate your own airplane with that level of cross country performance and capability for that price.

One of the reasons to own a plane is availability. You are able to log 20 hrs/month in the SR20 so it seems readily available. As long as that situation continues I would keep renting. Renting also gives you the ability to get checked out in a wide variety of other types of airplanes quite economically (tail draggers if you want to try some back country for example) whereas owning means you will log most, if not all, of your hours in that one airplane.

Get some more time in, do some more flying first. You'll have ample opportunity to own an airplane in due course.
 
$700/mo is a bit steep for fixed costs. How many are in this rental/club?

Owning, believe it or not, is "more" expensive than renting or clubbing.
 
The main reason to own is freedom and availability (as GRG55 says) so if you don't have any issues with your rental plan stick with it. When you can't get the plane when you want or keep it for over nights or you don't like the condition others are leaving it-then buy your own.
 
Not just availability, the reason to own a plane is travel. That you don't have to bring it back, that you can just go.


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For a very well equipped and lower time C182P, plan on $85k to $95k.

Your estimate is just gonna get one that requires lots of expensive upgrades and/or repairs.
 
GRG55 said:
For what you are currently paying for the SR20 you will never be able to own and operate your own airplane with that level of cross country performance and capability for that price.
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Whaaat? For $4000 a month he wont be able to own and operate a cross country capable airplane? I'll go ahead and throw the BS flag on that.
 
gsengle said:
Not just availability, the reason to own a plane is travel. That you don't have to bring it back, that you can just go.


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Yep. Availability may be one thing, the other is over-nighting the plane. Both were issues for me. So renting was either not practical or super expensive. Plus I wanted to gain lots of proficiency in one single plane.

But dang, once you own, spending is no longer optional. After the spreadsheet is put away and the ink dries on the purchase docs, you can be frugal, but it's all negative cash flow...until you sell and end the cash bleed.
 
On the plus side for your rental arrangement you can drop to $700/mo anytime you need to for weather, health, economics, etc.

On the plus side for ownership... it's just so frickin' cool.

Of course, I split the baby on the decision. Bought one and stayed in the club.
 
I'm a little confused by your question.

You state flying 20hrs/mo is $4,000...but then you also state you have 45hrs in a fixed wind aircraft?

How do you have a private certificate, renting an SR-20 only have only accumulated 45hrs in a fixed wing aircraft?

Do you actually know how much usage you will actually incur? Break even for most aircraft is about 50hrs s & its cheaper to own starting at hour 51.
 
mtnflyr said:
My mission is to have fun, fly to areas and buy expensive cheeseburgers, get ifr rated, commercial, introduce as many people I can to GA, Become a CFI. Most importantly make sure myself and everyone has a lot of fun.
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A $25,000 or less C150 can accomplish just about all of this. And be affordable to own and operate.
 
gsengle said:
Not just availability, the reason to own a plane is travel. That you don't have to bring it back, that you can just go.
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And more places to go (e.g. Canada, Mexico, grass, gravel).
 
I would certainly put the OP in the ownership category with a $4K per month spend. You could have a nice, travelling aircraft for half that per month depending on age/condition/model, etc.
 
10 reasons not to buy a plane:

1. everyone else has one
2. good investment (be honest about all costs fixed and recurring)
3. bragging rights
4. will be flying enough to justify it
5. the deal is just too good to pass up
6. it's safer (rental planes are wrecks)
7. can go when I want (except for weather, work, fuel money, down for annual or other problem)
8. can fly friends and family for fun (other than the few who will trust you and fly in a small plane)
9. can gain logbook hours faster (see 7)
10. can always sell it when I want a new plane
 
I think the OP may be weighing the options available to him. I've read the post #1 a couple of times, and it could go either way.

But, in a different thread recently, he was frustrated with delays before his check ride, so I believe the OP recently completed his PPL.

That being said, @mtnflyr, can you clarify some things for us?

1. The SR20 deal: is it a club/partnership you already belong to?

2. Have you actually been flying the SR20? Is that the plane you've been doing your primary training in?

3. What does the $700/mo go to?

4. Are you actually flying 20hrs/mo or is that your planning figure? Where did you come up with the 20hrs/mo figure?
 
mtnflyr said:
My rental rates right now are 700 a month for a membership, plus 160 per hour wet for a 2015 cirrus sr20 every option checked aircraft. It's nice to fly. Very well maintained, the g1000 Pfd/mfd is seriously awesome to use. I really do feel like my money is paying for a high quality aircraft.

But.....

It is a lot of money. 20 hours of flying per month plus membership is four thousand bucks. That's a lot for a ballistic pull up bar.

I can buy a Cessna 182p, hanger,insurance, maintenance, annual, petrol, loan.....and I bet 2500 dollars a month would pay for all that plus some..... Am I stupid? Granted the c182p would have a purchase price of around 60k.

I'm a young pilot. I have 30 hours in aircraft that only fly because they vibrate so much the earth has repelled them (helicopters) and 45 hours in sensible fixed wing.

My mission is to have fun, fly to areas and buy expensive cheeseburgers, get ifr rated, commercial, introduce as many people I can to GA, Become a CFI. Most importantly make sure myself and everyone has a lot of fun.
Click to expand...
20 hours a month is a lot of flying unless you're doing business trips.
 
If you want a plane to match the Cirrus, the monthly spend if you own will be a lot higher.
If you want a plane to match the Cirrus in mission capability, but are willing to sacrifice some other aspects, you can save some money and buy one.

What is missing is the mission, and how you place a priority on the comfort, the interior looking like a car aspect, the side yoke, the chute, the integrated avionics (including the auto-pilot)....
Lastly, you also need to know what I call the oh sh** factor. If you own a plane, and you get an oil leak caused by a crack in the case... start looking at 30K to 120K depending on the piston plane. If you rent, carry some cheap renters insurance and then you do not care.

Tim
 
tspear said:
If you want a plane to match the Cirrus, the monthly spend if you own will be a lot higher.
If you want a plane to match the Cirrus in mission capability, but are willing to sacrifice some other aspects, you can save some money and buy one.

What is missing is the mission, and how you place a priority on the comfort, the interior looking like a car aspect, the side yoke, the chute, the integrated avionics (including the auto-pilot)....
Lastly, you also need to know what I call the oh sh** factor. If you own a plane, and you get an oil leak caused by a crack in the case... start looking at 30K to 120K depending on the piston plane. If you rent, carry some cheap renters insurance and then you do not care.

Tim
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Nah disagree. You can get a ton of capability from older airframes. There are for instance Mooneys cheaper and faster than a SR20. You can own a 155kt Mooney for way less that 4K a month.


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gsengle said:
Nah disagree. You can get a ton of capability from older airframes. There are for instance Mooneys cheaper and faster than a SR20. You can own a 155kt Mooney for way less that 4K a month.


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Or better yet ....get a Bonanza and go even faster. ;)
 
I always figured $10k/year was the rule of thumb, after which it starts to make sense to buy a typical 4 place GA spam can.
 
gsengle said:
Yep a Bo would be a fine choice, but per unit horsepower, and probably per AMU, Mooney is as fast as you'll go ;)

*certified 4 seats

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actually it's certified for 6 seats.....:D
 
citizen5000 said:
What will you do when Mooney goes out of business again?
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Continue flying in a fleet of 10,000 planes and maybe one day upgrade to a TBM that was designed in large part by Mooney.

But guess what it's still there now. And is building new planes. And has a robust support and training network. And it ****es you off evidently that this all you can do to demean the type... how about you focus on facts and fair assessments? Nah, let's not start now.

The fact is many older airframes are great buys and beat current designs on a cost and often on a performance basis. Piston propeller planes in many ways reached their pinnacle of design by the end of ww2 70 years ago. P51 anyone? We do people new to airplane ownership a disservice not to talk about these types - there is more to life than "Cirruslife".


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Checkout_my_Six said:
V35A is certified as a six seater....not that I would do that.;)
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I think I once knew that! I saw a sierra yesterday with a tiny third row seat :-o

Good point!


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One aspect that people haven't mentioned is the maintenance aspect and the care. If your a sole owner you make the decisions on how it's maintained and you know what's happened to the plane. When I was renting, I've found "issues" when conducting my preflight that made me worry and issues that prevented the plane from being airworthy. The airworthiness was at times a paper-work issue or from something not working. I also found things broken and not logged.

This made me look at my safety and the quality of maintenance of the rental fleet - I decided that for my mission - It made sense to buy and maintain it for my peace of mind and knowing how the plane is maintained. If something stops working or breaks - I know about it. I don't run the risk of someone else doing something and not telling me about it. But, that is just me.

Good luck in whatever you decide

Dean
 
MIFlyer said:
heck, according to the diagrams in the POH, so are a lot of 182s. where you'd get enough useful to put anyone in them is beyond me though, especially with LR tanks
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Basically little kid seats... these were the days before we put kids in child seats on cars...


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4K/month is a lot of dough. 20 hrs in our club Archer III would cost $1,717
[20hrs * 117/hr * 0.7 (tach time factor)] + $79
https://www.lvfc.org/planes

If I had the luxury of spending 1,700 per month let alone 4K, I'd be all over a Bo.
 
i will never pay 4k to rent .. doesnt make any sense. as far as ownership goes, no one will ever say that its cheaper to own, but that depends on variety of factors, at 48k per year...you can buy and maintain and fly a lot of fast airplanes
 
$160 an hour for a Cirrus of any variety is a pretty good rate. My old club had a SR22 that rented for $235hr and that was considered to be very reasonable.
 
Tx_Flyboy said:
I'm a little confused by your question.

You state flying 20hrs/mo is $4,000...but then you also state you have 45hrs in a fixed wind aircraft?

How do you have a private certificate, renting an SR-20 only have only accumulated 45hrs in a fixed wing aircraft?
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I must have missed it, but I didn't read anything about what certificate he holds. I'm guessing he's a student or just a wishful thinker.

To the OP, I think you've answered your own question already, if it makes sense to you than buy something. None of us are paying your bills.
 
JCranford said:
Whaaat? For $4000 a month he wont be able to own and operate a cross country capable airplane? I'll go ahead and throw the BS flag on that.
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I second that. You can get in partnerships for $200/month and $30/hr dry for retractable gear airplanes on trade-a-plane right now. No parachute or TV like a Cirrus, but for $4k a month who cares
 
gsengle said:
Nah disagree. You can get a ton of capability from older airframes. There are for instance Mooneys cheaper and faster than a SR20. You can own a 155kt Mooney for way less that 4K a month.


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Click to expand...

How are you disagreeing?
Check my second sentence.

What ever happened to reading? (could not resist)

Tim
 
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