When Selling Plane- Test Flights?

Mooney Fan

Mooney Fan

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Had a broker last sale years ago. Have my Cherokee on the block. Question- interested party wants to test fly it. I don’t know
 
You will find various opinions on this subject. I’ve test flown some airplanes prior to purchase and I’ve bought some without a flight. The majority of the airplanes I’ve sold have not included a demo flight but I wouldn’t have been opposed to providing one to a serious buyer.

How comfortable do you feel flying from the right seat?
 
mondtster said:
You will find various opinions on this subject. I’ve test flown some airplanes prior to purchase and I’ve bought some without a flight. The majority of the airplanes I’ve sold have not included a demo flight but I wouldn’t have been opposed to providing one to a serious buyer.

How comfortable do you feel flying from the right seat?
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Thx. Not a problem in right seat. Makes sense though to make sure their serious. I bought the plane without flying it first.
 
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I flew left seat when we bought our Sundowner, after the pre-buy was completed.

I was right seat in the Debonair, and right seat in our Commander, both prior to purchase.
 
I've bought one plane and have made offers on two (including the one I ended up buying) Flew both from the right seat. Not being able to go uo and fly them would have been a no-go for me.


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When I bought I flew with the owner over a big arse lake. No way i would have bought the plane without the owner flying it with me.

On a diff note, there was also a ferry pilot in the plane, I was pre-solo student, do dint have much of a choice
 
When we bought ours, I was left seat, my CFI was right seat, and the seller’s broker was in back. I had to show proof of insurance listing the owner as ‘additional insured’. But I’m glad we ‘test’ flew it. Don’t think I’d buy one without flying it first.
 
We flew ours before buying. Wouldn’t have bought without a test flight.
 
I built mine before test flying it for 40 hours ...

I've bought two that I didn't fly first. One needed some repairs before being flown but it was quite a fine little airplane for a few years after some TLC.

The other was a kit that was nearly complete with little left to do. I bought it and finished it up and flew it for a number of years before I sold it. I took the buyer for a flight and let him fly from the right seat. He loved it and the flight cemented the deal. It was a great airplane but the one I have now was finished and I didn't need two airplanes.
 
I didn't fly mine before I bought it, but my buddy, who is/was also my GFI and transition trainer, did fly it and gave it a thumbs-up. Good enough for me. I flew it (and logged the time) on the 3.5 hour flight home.
 
Test flight or demo flight?

I tend to view a test flight as one where the prospective buyer wants to actually fly the airplane themselves and a demo flight is seller of broker flown with prospective buyer along to observe.

You can call each whatever you want. I don’t think there is any official definition. Main thing is some sellers are fine with letting a prospective buyer fly the airplane and others would rather not take a chance.

I don’t have a problem with a seller not being comfortable letting a buyer actually fly the airplane, but barring any special issues, a seller refusing to allow a demo flight of any kind would certainly give me pause.
 
Simple. You hold a cashier's check for the agreed price while he flies. I HAD to do this when I sold my Mooney Mite.
 
I would not let them do takeoff or landing or stalls...but I would get up to altitude and then let them fly it a bit. As the buyer I was more interested in seeing all the avionics used, especially the autopilot.
 
I requested a test flight when I bought my bonanza and wouldn't have bought the plane or any other plane with out being granted a test flight. Why would you even be against this? I don't need to takeoff or land the plane or even sit in the left seat. But you danm well bet I'm going to want to see what I'm buying is actually functioning the way it's advertised and supposed to. If I were selling my plane I'd be happy to take a potential buyer flying. These things are toys for most people and I know that after you fly it your going to want to buy it.
 
I flew right seat on my Tiger before I bought; that’s more a demo than test flight. Had a long time Bo owner I know fly my Bo before I bought. I really think it would be hard for me to part with all that cash without a test or demo flight. I can’t expect that as a buyer and later deny it as a seller.
 
As a seller I would only allow a test flight after a price been agreed to and the prebuy has been completed. It should be the last step in the deal. It’s not my job to help a buyer decide what type of plane he wants. Other sellers can do that
 
swingwing said:
As a seller I would only allow a test flight after a price been agreed to and the prebuy has been completed. It should be the last step in the deal. It’s not my job to help a buyer decide what type of plane he wants. Other sellers can do that
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Exactly. I would call it an “acceptance flight” because the next and final step is to close.
 
swingwing said:
As a seller I would only allow a test flight after a price been agreed to and the prebuy has been completed. It should be the last step in the deal. It’s not my job to help a buyer decide what type of plane he wants. Other sellers can do that
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I'd be happy to take the guy on a demo flight and he can sit in the right seat after the purchase agreement is signed. He can fly it all he wants from there, but only under very rare circumstances (I cant envision what they might be) would I let another pilot fly that airplane without me or my CFI in it...I'd have to know them and be certain of their credentials, and they'd have to meet the insurance company's OPW requirements, and he'd have to be a serious buyer.
 
MacFly said:
I'd be happy to take the guy on a demo flight and he can sit in the right seat after the purchase agreement is signed. He can fly it all he wants from there, but only under very rare circumstances (I cant envision what they might be) would I let another pilot fly that airplane without me or my CFI in it...I'd have to know them and be certain of their credentials, and they'd have to meet the insurance company's OPW requirements, and he'd have to be a serious buyer.
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In a single seat? And if you are holding the cash what's the difference if he crashes it or not as long as he is covered by your liability insurance?
 
If I have a purchase and sale agreement with a deposit,I would definitely give a demonstration flight.
 
Snowmass said:
In a single seat? And if you are holding the cash what's the difference if he crashes it or not as long as he is covered by your liability insurance?
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Oh. We're talking about single-seat airplanes now? Well, I don't own a single seat airplane and likely never will....so my consideration of the sale hypotheticals only went as far as my current two-seat airplane. But yeah, a guy crashing my airplane, no matter how many seats it had, while he's on a demo flight by himself would seem to be a real hassle and open a huge can of worms, what with the lawsuits from the family and other such convolutions. Your experience with insurance companies and the lawsuits that would likely accompany such a tragedy might suggest that it's not a big deal. I suspect otherwise, and my off-the-cuff speculation, given your unlikely single-seat scenario, is that such a potential buyer had better be a regular Chuck Yeager before he flies my airplane unaccompanied. In the actual world, as opposed to the hypothetical world, I reserve the right to change my mind.
 
I insisted on a short test flight for every airplane I was considering purchasing. It is a chance to see if the airplane performs near book, and allows the purchaser to evaluate if all the avionics work properly. 90% of the time, the test flight doesn't turn up anything. Pilots are often an honest bunch. But when I was helping another pilot shop for a plane, we found a few planes where everything in the panel didn't work, or the aircraft engine was definitely a little sickly, based on aircraft performance.
 
I would definitely not let a prospective buyer fly it by themselves, but I would be happy to take them for a ride with me left seat. They can learn just as much about the aircraft sitting right seat as left, in my opinion.
 
I always fly the thing when I do a pre-purchase inspection for someone else, but my intent is making sure the thing is as-represented and the doodads in the panel work as expected. Making "typical" TAS for a given altitude is nice too, and buyers like seeing a speedy GPS triangle.

I've bought planes with or without a test flight. The closer I am to retail/market price, the more I'll want to fly it myself.

I don't think I've ever bought a car without test driving it first. I have bought bicycles without riding them first.

I can't think of a good reason to deny someone a test flight (with or without owner aboard) -- even if they're tire-kicking, so what? You have no way of knowing which of the idiots who call you are able and ready to transact. Take them all flying, what's another 10 hours on the hobbs?
 
Art Schmidt said:
When we bought ours, I was left seat, my CFI was right seat, and the seller’s broker was in back. I had to show proof of insurance listing the owner as ‘additional insured’. But I’m glad we ‘test’ flew it. Don’t think I’d buy one without flying it first.
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I knew a owner who allowed a buyer without any insurance test flew his rare experimental bird and unfortunately crashed on take off due to the buyer pilot error. All on broad walked away but the plane was totaled without any insurance cover. Very sad.

The owner later donated the wreckage to a group of pilots including me about 10 years ago. It took us 10 years to funded and gradually rebuild the bird. FAA has finally approved the restore recently. So the lesson learned is that at least a test flight need to be covered by someone’s insurance before taking off.
 
When I bought my first plane, an ugly yellow but well-maintained AA-1A, not only did the seller (an airline pilot and CFI) allow me to take a test flight, he insisted on giving me a thorough checkout and lesson prior to taking it home. That was a nice touch. And everything in that plane worked as advertised, and all the warts were disclosed in advance. The logbook was impeccable. That was the best plane-buying experience ever. I bought it on the spot and flew it home.
 
I test flew my Tiger in the left seat with a CFI in the right seat as part of the pre-buy. I found a few things during the demo flight I would not have found on the ground. For example, plane was out of trim which was corrected before I picked it up. The mechanical fuel pump acted up during the flight and again, was replaced at seller’s expense before I picked it up. I was able to verify everything worked as advertised including the autopilot. I would certainly provide a demo flight if someone had signed a purchase agreement for my plane, and I wouldn’t buy another without a demo flight. I don’t know if there are still a lot of wanna be buyers out there just looking for some free rides in these times but I would assume that to be the case since human behavior rarely changes.
 
<---- I had 0 TIT, and the seller was not a CFI, and the consequences of a less than perfect touchdown could have been very expensive, and I had no insurance for this airplane so it made sense to me that seller let me handle it aloft but not for T-O or approach/landing.

I think it depends on the aircraft, the pilots, other parts of the situation as to how much buyer-flying is going to happen.
 
I recently walked away from a Taylorcraft because the owner wouldn't let me fly it. Not with him, not with an instructor, not with anyone.
In the interest of full disclosure, he also refused to let my mechanic do the pre-buy.
 
Shepherd said:
I recently walked away from a Taylorcraft because the owner wouldn't let me fly it. Not with him, not with an instructor, not with anyone.
In the interest of full disclosure, he also refused to let my mechanic do the pre-buy.
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You shouldn't have walked away ... you should have ran away! :eek:
 
Shepherd said:
I recently walked away from a Taylorcraft because the owner wouldn't let me fly it. Not with him, not with an instructor, not with anyone.
In the interest of full disclosure, he also refused to let my mechanic do the pre-buy.
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In other words, he didn’t want to sell the plane...
 
Flew the Mooney from the right seat before purchase, couldn't ask much more. Another I flew from the left, seller had a CFI he liked. If the airplane is working and doing all the stuff it's supposed to do I'm good with it.
 
swingwing said:
As a seller I would only allow a test flight after a price been agreed to and the prebuy has been completed. It should be the last step in the deal. It’s not my job to help a buyer decide what type of plane he wants. Other sellers can do that
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What if he’s already decided on the type, and is just trying to figure out whose airplane to buy?
 
somorris said:
I would definitely not let a prospective buyer fly it by themselves, but I would be happy to take them for a ride with me left seat. They can learn just as much about the aircraft sitting right seat as left, in my opinion.
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Even if you were holding a cashier's check for the full price and you had a notarized agreement that if the plane is damaged in any way you keep all the money?
 
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