What to do if you cannot understand ATC

jamespharvey20 said:
Student pilot, in ground school phase. Watching a video from a live simulation ATC company, and I am having a lot of trouble understanding the accent of the simulated ATC.

What happens in real life? Do you just say "say again" as many times as it takes, or if you know it's not the transmission quality, but you just don't "jive" with the person speaking, do you ask for someone else and apologize?
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There was a tower controller at Appleton Wisconsin some, years back, who acted like he was in a speed talking contest. It was nearly impossible to understand this guy even though he did not speak with a foreign accent. I made him keep repeating until I understood what he was saying. I remember at least once telling him to slow down so he could be understood.

The bottom line is you need to be able to understand the controller. If necessary ask him/her to repeat until you do understand what is being said. This is not a time or place to try to guess what the person is trying to convey to you.

Jean
 
PW_Plack said:
I also hear a surprising number of bad radio/mic/helmet setups, and not just in experimentals.
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WTF? Where did THAT come from?

In my experience, modern experimental aircraft usually have stellar, crystal clear audiophile-quality radio transmissions, especially when compared to the guys flying 1960s-vintage spam cans talking through ancient Narco Superhomers with sticky PTT buttons.
 
Dead Stick said:
This.

I'll never forget the first time I flew into Boston. ATC cleared me to BAF and I had no freaking idea what he was trying to say. I asked him to "Say Again", then I said what Henning suggested - "I'm not sure what that means or what you want." then finally I asked him to spell it phonetically. That Boston accent was REALLY thick and hard to understand.

You run into this quite frequently in international operations as well. I think the controllers who speak English well must have enough senority so that they don't have to work the night shifts. Nights can be problematic in many parts of the world. :D
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I've also experienced this (in addition to overseas), right here at home with student controllers at military airfields. A good portion of them have pretty thick accents that I guess could be classified as ebonics…….one might think this to be the case, but strangely enough I have really never had the same issue with latino or asian accented people for whatever odd reason. I'll politely ask them to repeat themselves as many times as it takes for me to understand. Normally a guy/gal will get the hint and speak up a little with more annunciation. I try not to be a dick, but I literally cannot understand a word that these types are saying without some extra prompting. I think it is a combination of a typical student lack of confidence in what they are saying/directing, and just an inherent difficulty for me understanding that particular speech pattern. When I lived in Mississippi, there were people who might as well have been speaking russian. The funniest part, though I guess no more unreasonable, was when they couldn't understand a thing I was saying. There are some really wild dialects of English in this country to be sure, which again, the Boston native or the really deep south African American (or cajun white guy for that matter) would probably say about me.
 
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As a controller training new people, I've seen trainees read clearances off as quick as they can and invariably they have to repeat it because the pilot didn't get all of it. I've tried this technique with excellent results: I tell them to grab a pen and paper and we go down to the room where all the recording equipment is. I que up their transmission and ask them to write down the clearance as read. They can't do it fast enough. Lesson learned.

I remember while in Korea we had several Korean helicopter pilots come into Osan Air Base from the North. I called this guy "hominy two four for 4 months before I realized his call sign was "Army" two four. It isn't just the controllers who are hard to understand. Bad radios and accents are on both sides of those transmissions.
 
35 AoA said:
I've also experienced this (in addition to overseas), right here at home with student controllers at military airfields. A good portion of them have pretty thick accents that I guess could be classified as ebonics…….one might think this to be the case, but strangely enough I have really never had the same issue with latino or asian accented people for whatever odd reason. I'll politely ask them to repeat themselves as many times as it takes for me to understand. Normally a guy/gal will get the hint and speak up a little with more annunciation. I try not to be a dick, but I literally cannot understand a word that these types are saying without some extra prompting. I think it is a combination of a typical student lack of confidence in what they are saying/directing, and just an inherent difficulty for me understanding that particular speech pattern. When I lived in Mississippi, there were people who might as well have been speaking russian. The funniest part, though I guess no more unreasonable, was when they couldn't understand a thing I was saying. There are some really wild dialects of English in this country to be sure, which again, the Boston native or the really deep south African American (or cajun white guy for that matter) would probably say about me.
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One of my cousins in Germany went out with some coonass black guy in the Army for a few years so now she speaks English in Ebonics with a coonass accent. This is a master optician mind you. She was talking about coming to the states, I told her she had to relearn English to get a job or customers in her field, nobody is going to hire her or be her customers talking like a New Orleans hood rat.
 
35 AoA said:
I've also experienced this (in addition to overseas), right here at home with student controllers at military airfields. A good portion of them have pretty thick accents that I guess could be classified as ebonics…….one might think this to be the case, but strangely enough I have really never had the same issue with latino or asian accented people for whatever odd reason. I'll politely ask them to repeat themselves as many times as it takes for me to understand. Normally a guy/gal will get the hint and speak up a little with more annunciation. I try not to be a dick, but I literally cannot understand a word that these types are saying without some extra prompting. I think it is a combination of a typical student lack of confidence in what they are saying/directing, and just an inherent difficulty for me understanding that particular speech pattern. When I lived in Mississippi, there were people who might as well have been speaking russian. The funniest part, though I guess no more unreasonable, was when they couldn't understand a thing I was saying. There are some really wild dialects of English in this country to be sure, which again, the Boston native or the really deep south African American (or cajun white guy for that matter) would probably say about me.
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Like slurring "slightly above glidepath" into something like "slight buff glidepaff." It gets to the point where it's hard to distinguish between above and below. Students tend get lazy and speak too fast when they approach sign off time. I used to tell them, one good clear instruction every 5 seconds is better than two poor slurred instructions every 2-3 seconds. Slow down and speak clearly.

Suppose to take a speech test for ATC but sometimes people slip through the cracks. Had one student who actually stuttered. "Ta, ta, ta, turn right heading..." Real nice guy though.
 
you could always squawk 76 hundred and let God sort it out. :D
 
Velocity173 said:
Like slurring "slightly above glidepath" into something like "slight buff glidepaff." It gets to the point where it's hard to distinguish between above and below. Students tend get lazy and speak too fast when they approach sign off time. I used to tell them, one good clear instruction every 5 seconds is better than two poor slurred instructions every 2-3 seconds. Slow down and speak clearly.

Suppose to take a speech test for ATC but sometimes people slip through the cracks. Had one student who actually stuttered. "Ta, ta, ta, turn right heading..." Real nice guy though.
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+1000, especially the PAR thing. I literally can't tell the difference between "above" and "below" when said by some of these cats. Luckily the ones on the boat are generally a lot better.
 
jamespharvey20 said:
Student pilot, in ground school phase. Watching a video from a live simulation ATC company, and I am having a lot of trouble understanding the accent of the simulated ATC.

What happens in real life? Do you just say "say again" as many times as it takes, or if you know it's not the transmission quality, but you just don't "jive" with the person speaking, do you ask for someone else and apologize?
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In the AIM, READ ABOUT "Say words twice"...

That slows 'em down, and gives you two chances at each word...

Paul
 
Wow, the Navy still runs PAR approaches? I thought Davis-Monthan AFB was one of the last to use that dinosaur. We still have it and still use it but it's days are numbered. We will be installing another ILS next year.

Tim and has ran PAR approaches (started on the raw radar FPN-62) for 25 years.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Wow, the Navy still runs PAR approaches? I thought Davis-Monthan AFB was one of the last to use that dinosaur. We still have it and still use it but it's days are numbered. We will be installing another ILS next year.

Tim and has ran PAR approaches (started on the raw radar FPN-62) for 25 years.
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F/A-18 (of any model) has no precision approach capability other than PAR……aside from ship-based approaches. It's TACAN or PAR only for us when stateside. You might say dinosaur, but with a good controller, I have and would take it below mins if the situation warranted. We'd love ILS, but NAVAIR won't fund it. It has been nice to also fly the F-16, which has ILS and takes away a lot of the stateside concerns when flying in bad wx without many real good divert options other than military fields. FWIW, just about any military field (especially those with fighters) has a PAR, and a decent amount of civilian fields at least have ASR, if not in some cases, PAR as well. You really need the FLIP pub to know they exist however I believe. But there are also a LOT of civilian fields without either, which poses a problem for guys in Navy aircraft (think Prowler eventually got ILS, but most Navy jets have not had it)
 
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I had no idea anyone else still ran 'em. Not against the rules to go below mins on a PAR. That's why we are trained to run all the way to the threshold but we DO have to say "at decision height".
 
While AF is still holding out in a few bases, Army, Navy & Marines still use PAR heavily stateside and on deployment. In some cases the only legal option in getting down with low WX.
 
ATC_av8er said:
Guilty. Working at a VFR tower on severe clear days, we don't shut up. We all have tells as to when we are getting busy. Mine is I start talking faster and faster. If anyone has flown into BJC in the last few years, I apologize. It was probably me.
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Hey! Welcome to POA (here, since I haven't seen other posts). We have a couple guys in our club (TenHi) who were or are tower guys.
 
Henning said:
One of my cousins in Germany went out with some coonass black guy in the Army for a few years so now she speaks English in Ebonics with a coonass accent. This is a master optician mind you. She was talking about coming to the states, I told her she had to relearn English to get a job or customers in her field, nobody is going to hire her or be her customers talking like a New Orleans hood rat.
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Your story reminds me of this story:
Pierre and Boudreaux was flying Cajun Airlines to da Mardi Gras. Boudreaux was flying da plane, and Pierre was in da back foolin wit da cargo equipment an stuff. Da plane hit some turbulence an started bouncin' around an Boudreaux, he got knock unconscious. Den da plane start driftin'. Pierre come run up to da front an Boudreaux was sprawl out all over da steerin' wheel. Well, Pierre don't know nuttin' bout flying an he start to get panicky. He grab da microphone and holla, "May Day! May Day! Dis is Cajun Air Line 70210. Boudreaux, him knock unconscious an I don't know nuttin' about flying dis plane!"

"Dis is da control tower," someone answer. "Don you worry about nuttin'. We gonna splain how you land dis plane, step by step, ah gar-own-tee! Jus leave anything to us. Fus, how high you are, an whas you position?"

Pierre thought a minute, den say, “I'm five foot ten an'm all da way to da front of da plane"

"No! No!" answer da tower, "What you altitude an where you located?"

Pierre say, "Man, rat now ah got a po attitude, an ah'm from Thibodeaux, Laweezeeanna."

"No! No! No!" came an exasperated voice, "Ah needs to know how many feet you got off da groun an how you plane in relation to da airport"

Pierre, he start to panic by dis time. He say, "Countin Boudreaux's feets an mine together, we got fo feet off da groun an I don believe dis plane related to you airport"

A long pause ------ de silence was deafanin. "We needs to know who you next of kin"​
 
The Chinese or Asian ATC controller at Napa airport is VERY difficult to understand. I wonder how she even got the job in the first place.
 
Blueangel said:
The Chinese or Asian ATC controller at Napa airport is VERY difficult to understand. I wonder how she even got the job in the first place.
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Listen to the Live ATC feed from Denton when the US Aviation trainees are in the air. We have a lot of kids over from Asia training here and it can be a bit entertaining to hear them try to speak Eengwish and aviationeese.
 
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