What to do if you cannot understand ATC

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jamespharvey20

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jamespharvey20
Student pilot, in ground school phase. Watching a video from a live simulation ATC company, and I am having a lot of trouble understanding the accent of the simulated ATC.

What happens in real life? Do you just say "say again" as many times as it takes, or if you know it's not the transmission quality, but you just don't "jive" with the person speaking, do you ask for someone else and apologize?
 
"say again" However, odds are you won't have this problem. Controllers in general are very level voiced and easy to understand. When they start talking quick things can get a little more difficult but read back what you need to and they will correct you if they need to.

Asking for a different controller, well thats just not gonna happen. Ive never heard of something like that and its not efficient at all for a controller to stop what he's doing and find another controller (who are all doing something) to come over and tell you something.
 
You just tell them to repeat or say again or whatever it takes. I did have one time I was trying to get a departure clearance and after what seemed like 10 minutes trying to understand him with both of us getting pretty flustered I just told them I would call on phone. Was not a problem with whoever answered.
 
I'd suspect as a native English speaker it is very unusual to have a situation were a controller is difficult io understand. They should be using very standardized language, so once you get a little experience you'll have no trouble understanding what they're asking for. If English is your second (or third) language, things are likely a little more difficult, but again experience helps.

All that said, occasionally I've come across controllers with strongish non-native accents. One controller at ACY sticks out in my mind, although I've never had trouble understanding her. More challenging are the regional accents like the fellas at New York Tracon, particularly are the high rate of speed they speak.
 
I have had controllers that speak like they are auctioneers. Just ask them to "say again" a little slower as you are a newer pilot. I am sure they will cut you some slack and comply.
 
asgcpa said:
I have had controllers that speak like they are auctioneers. Just ask them to "say again" a little slower as you are a newer pilot. I am sure they will cut you some slack and comply.
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Sometimes they need to.

But yes, adding in "student pilot" to a transmission will get you a lot of help from the controller.
 
Seanaldinho said:
Sometimes they need to.



But yes, adding in "student pilot" to a transmission will get you a lot of help from the controller.
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Guilty as charged. When the adrenaline was flowing during a rush, I used to get the tendency to talk fast. Especially if I felt behind.

Nowadays I force myself to talk slower, to help avoid having to say things twice.


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jamespharvey20 said:
Student pilot, in ground school phase. Watching a video from a live simulation ATC company, and I am having a lot of trouble understanding the accent of the simulated ATC.

What happens in real life? Do you just say "say again" as many times as it takes, or if you know it's not the transmission quality, but you just don't "jive" with the person speaking, do you ask for someone else and apologize?
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If you don't understand what they said because it was garbled say; "Say again".

If you don't understand what they want you to do say; " Student Pilot say again". You will get the attention and clarification you need. Seriously, works every time. After 3,500 hours I still use it. :yes: :D. ;)
 
Jim Logajan said:
It shouldn't get ugly, but...

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What a douche....... That guy needs to find another profession. He thinks he is Jenny from the block and doesn't even speak in correct English, yet expects people to follow his busted ass, double speak calls.
 
MarkZ said:
Guilty as charged. When the adrenaline was flowing during a rush, I used to get the tendency to talk fast. Especially if I felt behind.

Nowadays I force myself to talk slower, to help avoid having to say things twice.


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I don't know Mark. You never sounded like an auctioneer on the radio when we've communicated.
 
Unit74 said:
What a douche....... That guy needs to find another profession. He thinks he is Jenny from the block and doesn't even speak in correct English, yet expects people to follow his busted ass, double speak calls.
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Having flown into JFK many times, I can say it's totally different than just about any other airport. Ramps are congested, taxiways congested, many foreign airlines flying heavy jets in and out of there. I remember one evening being something like number 50-60 in the departure line up. By the time we got to be something like #5 we were below our required fuel and had to return to the gate for more fuel. Fun times! :)

NY controllers are good, they're just extremely busy at times having to deal with all the language issues of foreign airlines there, ramp congestion which then causes taxiway congestion when planes can't get into their gates. It's a real cluster there at times.
 
mscard88 said:
Having flown into JFK many times, I can say it's totally different than just about any other airport. Ramps are congested, taxiways congested, many foreign airlines flying heavy jets in and out of there. I remember one evening being something like number 50-60 in the departure line up. By the time we got to be something like #5 we were below our required fuel and had to return to the gate for more fuel. Fun times! :)



NY controllers are good, they're just extremely busy at times having to deal with all the language issues of foreign airlines there, ramp congestion which then causes taxiway congestion when planes can't get into their gates. It's a real cluster there at times.
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To add on to this...

At airports like JFK, LGA, ORD, ATL, etc. ground control is the busiest and most complex position in the tower. Inbound ground controllers have to keep aircraft moving on the taxiways. When an arrival's gate is occupied, inbound ground controllers improvise by finding parking spots on taxiways away from the general flow of traffic. Outbound ground controllers have two tasks. They have to safely move aircraft from the non-movement area to the hold short line of the departure runway, and they have to properly sequence departures. The first task is rudimentary, the second task can bury a controller. In order to allow Local (the controller clearing aircraft for takeoff) to continue to "free roll" departures, outbound has to ensure successive departures do not have the same departure fix. In addition to that, outbound ground must ensure local can abide by any flow restriction by not "stacking" the same flowed departure one after another. More trainees wash out of the ground control position than any other.

All that happens on a regular, clear blue sky, VFR day. If you add in weather delays or flow restrictions, ground control can become overwhelming.

At any ATC position, nothing disrupts the flow or control of a frequency more than an inattentive or unfamiliar/uncomfortable pilot. The former is inexcusable. The latter is understandable and sometimes expected (when we see an unfamiliar call sign).

If you fly through busy airspace, and you are unfamiliar or uncomfortable with the local procedures, let the controller know. We are human beings as well, and we want to make sure you get where you want to go safely.


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jordane93 said:
"Say again, student pilot" seems to work for my students.
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'

"Student/new pilot" and "unfamiliar" This was one of the best things my instructor taught me when it came to radio use.

When it comes to airport ops...using the term "unfamiliar" also goes a LONG way in making sure the controllers are clear in their communication and you understand what they want you to do.
 
Welcome to the forum,say again ,say again please,if it's a fix ,have them spell it for you. The words student pilot will usually slow them down and exaggerate their pronunciation.
 
jamespharvey20 said:
Student pilot, in ground school phase. Watching a video from a live simulation ATC company, and I am having a lot of trouble understanding the accent of the simulated ATC.

What happens in real life? Do you just say "say again" as many times as it takes, or if you know it's not the transmission quality, but you just don't "jive" with the person speaking, do you ask for someone else and apologize?
Click to expand...

Fortunately, listening to ATC gets easier with practice. Their phraseology is pretty standardized and over time you get used to the flow of what will be said when.

Around Texas, OK, and AR, most controllers speak at a moderate pace and frequently pause a moment between saying your tail#/call sign and the information or command they wish to impart. When the sector is busy, the good controllers who need to speak quickly do their best to enunciate and make themselves heard clearly.

But failing all that, if you didn't grokk what they said, just ask for it to be repeated. Even the airline pros do that.
 
Yeah, "say again" as many times as necessary. Better to annoy ATC a little than guess wrong at the instruction.

And listen to LiveATC. Write stuff down. Make a habit of anticipating what the next instruction will be (forces your brain to build a different kind of mental map). You'll be fine pretty quickly.

Anticipating clearance instructions is particularly useful. ATC just doesn't generally speak slowly enough to write things down. So write down what you expect and then you just have to circle the items if you get them. Saves a lot of writing while you're trying to keep up with ATC.
 
maybe after 2 or 3 "say again?" one might expand on what it is you're not getting and ask for clarification on those pieces?
 
gkainz said:
maybe after 2 or 3 "say again?" one might expand on what it is you're not getting and ask for clarification on those pieces?
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A few years ago, there was a lady controller on the Whidbey Approach freq, She could really rattle the clearances off to any requesting.

I was flying with the CO of the Repair facility when she did it to us, The Skipper simply said,, Young Lady you can say that 3 times at your speed or once at mine"

Long silence, then "2801C stay clear of the Class C, Freq change approved"
 
jamespharvey20 said:
Student pilot, in ground school phase. Watching a video from a live simulation ATC company, and I am having a lot of trouble understanding the accent of the simulated ATC.

What happens in real life? Do you just say "say again" as many times as it takes, or if you know it's not the transmission quality, but you just don't "jive" with the person speaking, do you ask for someone else and apologize?
Click to expand...

#1 Realize everyone screws up radio communications, even those that do it every day for living. The better you get at it the more you'll hear the goofs by others. (look up "JFK ATC ground" on Youtube for kicks)

#2 "Say Again", "Say Again - Student Pilot", "Say Again - Unfamiliar with the Airport" can all help.

#3 Lots of Youtube videos can help.
 
Tom-D said:
A few years ago, there was a lady controller on the Whidbey Approach freq, She could really rattle the clearances off to any requesting.

I was flying with the CO of the Repair facility when she did it to us, The Skipper simply said,, Young Lady you can say that 3 times at your speed or once at mine"

Long silence, then "2801C stay clear of the Class C, Freq change approved"
Click to expand...

Some of the voices are terrible to hear and understand via aircraft radio IMHO.

Like Bernadette on tv show Big Bang Theory, I couldn't understand a voice like hers if she were a controller.
 
Seanaldinho said:
"say again" However, odds are you won't have this problem. Controllers in general are very level voiced and easy to understand. When they start talking quick things can get a little more difficult but read back what you need to and they will correct you if they need to.

Asking for a different controller, well thats just not gonna happen. Ive never heard of something like that and its not efficient at all for a controller to stop what he's doing and find another controller (who are all doing something) to come over and tell you something.
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^^This.

I have hard time understanding some controllers. Just say "Say again, please". If you keep saying it, the controller will literally spell it out for you eventually really slow.

You can also ask them to talk slower. As a student, you should tell the controller that. They will talk slower usually.

In any case, this is often an issue of you are not expecting certain things they say rather than really not hearing/understanding them. It will get much better with experience.
 
I will tell them to "say again" as many times as it takes. Don't really have a problem in the states but it is a BIG problem for me when I fly in the Middle East. To me, many Arab controllers are extremely difficult to understand.
 
Unit74 said:
What a douche....... That guy needs to find another profession. He thinks he is Jenny from the block and doesn't even speak in correct English, yet expects people to follow his busted ass, double speak calls.
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The ground controller keeps repeating the same thing, I'm not a ATP but I didn't understand what he was saying which brings the point.
If you didn't hear what the controller said, respond with "say again"
But if you heard him but don't understand what he is trying to tell you, say again won't work, what do you say then? Something like: don't understand, please rephrase?
 
jamespharvey20 said:
Student pilot, in ground school phase. Watching a video from a live simulation ATC company, and I am having a lot of trouble understanding the accent of the simulated ATC.

What happens in real life? Do you just say "say again" as many times as it takes, or if you know it's not the transmission quality, but you just don't "jive" with the person speaking, do you ask for someone else and apologize?
Click to expand...

As a student I had this concern too. I would listen to liveATC and other resources and I could not understand what the controllers were saying - it was garbled or they talked too fast. I was sure that I was going to be "that student" who had to keep asking for them to "say again more slowly".

Try not to worry about this right now. I found that when the time came, it just worked. On a reasonable radio with a reasonable headset, you will understand what they're saying. Now if you hear then and don't know what they want you to do, that's a different issue - just ask for an explanation.

Somehow it does all work.
 
For the OP/something that has not been mentioned:

Most of what you'll get is highly standardized language. Many moons ago when I was training, I found that when I got something new I often couldn't understand it but once I was familiar with that particular phrase or instruction it became a lot easier to understand even from a fast talker.

The easy examples are the "CRAFT" format for IFR clearances and the clearance given for an approach. Both are somewhat long but the format and words are always identical so it is easy to understand what is being said and to pick out the critical items. You'll discover though that even most of the simpler communications you're likely to get as a student and VFR pilot will become familiar and easily recognizable. For example: "Bugsmasher 1234 turn left on Delta and contact ground point seven." It should always be said exactly that way.

If you haven't yet done so, spend some time with the Pilot/Controller Glossary at the back of the AIM. That should help.
 
AIM 4-2-1 tells us to use whatever words are necessary to get the message across, whether they meet the brevity test or not. The 7110.65 tells controllers to use plain English when it becomes apparent that "by the book" phraseology is not working. I think that "What do you want me to do?" works in most cases.

Bob Gardner
 
I found it helps to be expecting what controller is saying, when they go "off script" I sometimes have to hear it again.
Also my short term memory bank holds a maximum of 3 things, if you give me 4 I will forget at least 1 item.
 
Guilty. Working at a VFR tower on severe clear days, we don't shut up. We all have tells as to when we are getting busy. Mine is I start talking faster and faster. If anyone has flown into BJC in the last few years, I apologize. It was probably me.


MarkZ said:
Guilty as charged. When the adrenaline was flowing during a rush, I used to get the tendency to talk fast. Especially if I felt behind.

Nowadays I force myself to talk slower, to help avoid having to say things twice.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
If I don't understand their speech, I say, "Say Again?", if I don't understand what they want, I will plainly state, "I'm not sure what that means or what you want." Make it clear when you're not clear.
 
Henning said:
If I don't understand their speech, I say, "Say Again?", if I don't understand what they want, I will plainly state, "I'm not sure what that means or what you want." Make it clear when you're not clear.
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This.

I'll never forget the first time I flew into Boston. ATC cleared me to BAF and I had no freaking idea what he was trying to say. I asked him to "Say Again", then I said what Henning suggested - "I'm not sure what that means or what you want." then finally I asked him to spell it phonetically. That Boston accent was REALLY thick and hard to understand.

You run into this quite frequently in international operations as well. I think the controllers who speak English well must have enough senority so that they don't have to work the night shifts. Nights can be problematic in many parts of the world. :D
 
To be fair, I can only imagine the nightmare this must be in the other direction, especially at Class D fields. I feel sorry for controllers some Saturdays.

I also hear a surprising number of bad radio/mic/helmet setups, and not just in experimentals. We should all be required to listen to recordings of our own radios at least once. It's easy to make such a time-lapse audio recording with an old police scanner and a computer running shareware. Your radio may NOT sound just like what you hear in the intercom.

Some of the European LSAs are coming into the US with radios featuring the new 8.3 kHz channels, one-third the bandwidth of the US standard, and the audio filters used in the transmitters to limit the bandwidth can make consonants harder to understand, especially with certain mics.
 
Speak slower is actually in the Pilot / Controller Glossary.
 
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